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Seadog73
(Login Seadog73)

Re: 3rd Test | England vs South Africa at the Oval (Match Thread)

July 31 2017, 3:43 PM 

That's how to wrap up a test match!

 
 
Brian
(Login NewBrian)

Re: 3rd Test | England vs South Africa at the Oval (Match Thread)

July 31 2017, 9:03 PM 

Moeen seems a truly likeable character, pretty rare in sport these days. And he shows you can pluck a top player from the county ranks too. A great end to the match. Surprised the umpire didn't give the lbw though.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

4th Test squad

July 31 2017, 9:37 PM 

The ubiquitous Steven Finn comes in for the injured Mark Wood in the otherwise unchanged 13 for Old Trafford.

Same team I should imagine with most of the pressure on Jennings as the target for the TV analysts.

 
 
Alibor
(Login Alibor2)

Re: 3rd Test | England vs South Africa at the Oval (Match Thread)

July 31 2017, 9:58 PM 

Entirely predictable that they would keep same squad for final SA test even though Jennings and Dawson are not test quality and Milan has to show his worth. On the positive side, both Westley and Roland Jones showed class and likely to be in Ashes squad.
Good from our point of view that Rashid and maybe captain Ballance will be avaiabls for the vital Essex match in Scarborough, although the weather forecast is not too promising for my usual trip to Scarbados.


    
This message has been edited by Alibor2 on Aug 1, 2017 8:06 AM


 
 
Seadog73
(Login Seadog73)

Re: 3rd Test | England vs South Africa at the Oval (Match Thread)

August 1 2017, 7:58 AM 

After winning by 239 runs, I would be amazed if the selection for the next test is anything but predictable! England must now prove they can back up one great performance with another.

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: 3rd Test | England vs South Africa at the Oval (Match Thread)

August 1 2017, 8:26 AM 

My moneys on the team that wins the toss and bats first. Three matches, three stuffings for the team batting second.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Stoneman

August 1 2017, 9:03 AM 

Some commentator or other thought it might be a good idea to pick Stoneman as a replacement for Jennings.

The rationale being that if Jennings fails at Old Trafford and is then dropped Stoneman would be his natural replacement.

The West Indies it seems have such a poor attack that Stoneman would get an easy ride and an automatic ticket to the Ashes without being really tested.

There is a bit of a dangerous mindset building in some that the Ashes are everything, and that other Tests are merely auditions.

 
 
JG
(Login _JG_)

Re: 3rd Test | England vs South Africa at the Oval (Match Thread)

August 1 2017, 10:15 AM 

I agree with you Geoff, but I'm not sure that mindset is anything new. As it happens I would pick Stoneman for Old Trafford, but purely on the basis that I think he's a better batsman than Jennings.

 
 
Brian
(Login NewBrian)

Re: 3rd Test | England vs South Africa at the Oval (Match Thread)

August 1 2017, 10:52 AM 

Seems as though Finn is being thought of as an Australian-conditions pick for the Ashes, but he has consistently failed to realise his potential. He really should be one of the best fast bowlers in the world - he has all the physical assets. Seems to need careful management if he is to be more than another taller than average medium pacer.

 
 
JG
(Login _JG_)

Re: 3rd Test | England vs South Africa at the Oval (Match Thread)

August 1 2017, 12:19 PM 

I would say that Finn has had a reasonably good career to date- 125 Test wickets at 30 with 5 five-fors is not to be sniffed at- without hitting the heights or achieving the consistency he looked to be capable of. Like a few other players, I think he has been messed around with a bit by the England management and over-coached at times, but at only 28 there is still time for him to come back, as Plunkett managed following his move to Headingley after having similar issues. He must have fallen behind Woakes, Roland-Jones and Ball now though. Dobell wrote a good piece on England's options as third seamer following TRJ's debut this week- some interesting comments from Sidebottom on the difference between bowling in county and Test cricket too.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-south-africa-2017/content/story/1113300.html

It seems that Dawson is back in the reckoning for Old Trafford as Baylis doesn't believe that we need 8 batsmen in the team; that might be true, but I don't think replacing one of them with someone who can neither bat or bowl to anything like Test standard is very helpful...

 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: 3rd Test | England vs South Africa at the Oval (Match Thread)

August 1 2017, 4:12 PM 

Do we suffer from having too many players to choose from?

Anderson, Broad, Woakes, Ball, Finn, Plunkett, Roland-Jones, Jordan - the specialist seam bowlers who HAVE played + a couple I may have forgotten. (I'm discounting, Bresnan, Onions, etc.)

Then there's Rushworth, Footitt, Helm, Tom Curran and 2 Overtons + Coad, Fisher, Mahmood, Sam Curran, Archer, and no doubt a few others from the next generation. The lad at Essex, for example. Porter, is it?

The supporters of franchise cricket would say 8 teams would concentrate the talent and weed out the unsuitable before the International stage is reached. But this would mean late developers, like Sidebottom and Roland-Jones, would be lost to the game.

To compound it all, we have a coach who unashamedly admits he's not seen most of them play; a chief selector who wouldn't recognise talent if it kicked him in the goolies; and others - Newell and Fraser - who have an incompatible vested interest, a clash of roles.

This point was highlighted by Paul Allott and his tame writers in Sunday's programme. Who does, actually, pick the team?

We can't pick Stoneman because we've never seen him bat; nor has he ever faced International standard bowling, because we don't allow our Test bowlers to play; and anyway, who ever heard of a decent cricketer from Durham?

Okay, apart from Collingwood, Harmison, Stokes...etc.....

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: 3rd Test | England vs South Africa at the Oval (Match Thread)

August 1 2017, 5:12 PM 

Dernbach Meaker Topley Harris (whatever happened to him when we nearly signed him instead of Brooks)

All local to Lords of course.

 
 
Brian
(Login NewBrian)

Re: 3rd Test | England vs South Africa at the Oval (Match Thread)

August 1 2017, 5:31 PM 

George Garton seems highly rated, although I know little about him, but I'd put money on Jamie Overton coming through before the Australian tour and being on the plane. He looks ready for Test duty, fitness permitting of course. Roland Jones could be useful on Australian pitches but I'm doubtful over Anderson's effectiveness on those tracks. I'd take Wood if he's fit, but that seems a big if. Rashid as reserve spinner.

 
 
JG
(Login _JG_)

Re: 3rd Test | England vs South Africa at the Oval (Match Thread)

August 2 2017, 6:50 PM 

We may have a surfeit of seamers (although Fisher is a rather incongruous inclusion on that list), but unfortunately I would say we only have 3-4 Test quality batsmen (Cook, Root, Bairstow, perhaps Stokes) and no Test quality spinners. Could have something to do with he fact that the majority of the Championship season is played on early season pitches not akin to those found in international cricket in which spinners barely get a look in, or English cricket's undoubted prioritisation of limited overs cricket (which in fact are one and the same), I'm not sure...

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: 3rd Test | England vs South Africa at the Oval (Match Thread)

August 3 2017, 7:51 AM 

Think you do a disservice to Moeen with your view even if he may share your opinion himself.

 
 
JG
(Login _JG_)

Re: 3rd Test | England vs South Africa at the Oval (Match Thread)

August 3 2017, 8:09 AM 

Moeen's a decent bowler who has a nice knack of getting wickets but he's far too inconsistent and also far too expensive (Test economy rate of 3.8) to justify his place as a alone; I would suggest his average of 38 actually flatters his bowling too as captains don't trust him to bowl the sort of tidy first innings spells (15-3-35-0 and the like) that do your stats no good but are really useful for the team- the kind of spells that Giles bowled a lot of in Vaughan's England team. Similar to the batting of Stokes, Bairstow, Moeen- they're often out attacking for the good of the team or because they're stuck with the tail which influences their average downwards. I would still say Moeen is closer to being a Test quality batsman than a Test quality bowler, and the fact that our best spinner is a batting all-rounder is rather damning of our strength in this area.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: 3rd Test | England vs South Africa at the Oval (Match Thread)

August 3 2017, 10:40 AM 

But the more he bowls, the better he is getting...

 
 
 
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