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One Ryan Sidebottom....

August 7 2017 at 9:20 AM
Guest  (Login ThirdUmpire)

 
Some mention of his workload yesterday as he was listed as playing for Warwickshire too.

I wondered if Giles had pulled off his latest coup by signing Ryan mid game to add to his collection of other signings such as Sibley and Hose.

But apparently the guy playing for Warwickshire is another Ryan Sidebottom from Australia and no doubt playing as a kolpak...

 
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Guest
(Login TykeTim)

Re: One Ryan Sidebottom....

August 7 2017, 9:35 AM 

Why would an Aussie be playing as a Kolpak?

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: One Ryan Sidebottom....

August 7 2017, 9:57 AM 

Well he's not the registered overseas player as Patel playing

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

English mother

August 8 2017, 5:01 PM 

Think I picked up on commentary that the Australian Ryan Sidebottom has an English mother so is allowed a British passport.

He was bowling to another Aussie, Nathan Sowter, who is also not an overseas player because he has an English mother too.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: One Ryan Sidebottom....

August 8 2017, 6:13 PM 

Too many people seem to have absolutely no idea what constitutes a Kolpak player.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: One Ryan Sidebottom....

August 8 2017, 6:18 PM 

There's an awful lot of English mothers going overseas to give birth.....

Keaton Jennings falls into the same category too

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: One Ryan Sidebottom....

August 8 2017, 6:31 PM 

To clarify (from Wikapeadia)

The Kolpak ruling is a European Court of Justice ruling handed down on 8 May 2003 in favour of Maroš Kolpak, a Slovak handball player. It declared that citizens of countries which have signed European Union Association Agreements have the same right to freedom of work and movement within the EU as EU citizens. Thus any restrictions placed on their right to work (such as quotas setting maximum numbers of such foreign players in sports teams) are deemed illegal under EU law. The legal actions in Germany set a precedent for professional sports in Europe, which have had a wide-ranging effect, especially in regard to English county cricket and European professional rugby.

A Kolpak player, or Kolpak, is a term used in the United Kingdom for players in the domestic leagues in cricket and both rugby codes from overseas, subject to the Kolpak ruling.

Hopefully, once Brexit has been completed, this ruling will cease.

 
 
Seadog73
(Login Seadog73)

Re: One Ryan Sidebottom....

August 8 2017, 6:36 PM 

The country will be down the toilet but at least there'll be no more Kolpaks 😉

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: One Ryan Sidebottom....

August 8 2017, 7:01 PM 

You can call them whatever you like but ultimately they are all the same category if they cannot play for England and are denying young county players a chance to develop in the first team.

Harmer is a Kolpak and playing for Essex when he should probably be in the Saffer test squad challenging Maharaj. In fact you could probably get a better team out of South Africans playing county cricket than the test team just beaten 3-1.

Harmer, Rudolph, Ingram, Abbott, Roussow, McLaren, Kleinveld, Cook, supplemented by the absent de Villiers and Steyn and you can see why the Saffers came off second best.

My throwaway comment about him being a Kolpak was laziness on my part at yet another player plying his trade overseas filling a slot that in Warwickshires case could have been filled by Hannon-Dalby for example.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: One Ryan Sidebottom....

August 8 2017, 7:58 PM 

It's a very strange logic where you're bemoaning someone with a British passport working in Britain.
It's a much smaller world these days with people finding it easier to travel, settle in different countries etc. These type of situations will become more and more regular I feel.

 
 
JG
(Login _JG_)

Re: One Ryan Sidebottom....

August 8 2017, 11:22 PM 

Warks should have filled the slot with a proven failure like Hannon-Dalby should they?

I've seen a couple of comments on other threads about the standard of county cricket improving this summer- I think the addition of a lot of quality Kolpak players over the winter has a lot to do with this. From around 2003 to 2010 practcally every England debutant seemed to immediately thrive in international cricket; recently England have been going through players like nobody's business, as county standards dropped due to young player initiatives, reduction of Kolpaks etc. There are clearly other reasons behind the influx of Kolpaks (weak rand, doubts over whether the scheme will apply after Brexit) but perhaps it isn't the worst thing for English cricket- only when they're stuffing our boys!


    
This message has been edited by _JG_ on Aug 8, 2017 11:22 PM


 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: One Ryan Sidebottom....

August 9 2017, 7:13 AM 

Whether you think OHD is a proven failure is open to debate but if I was Will Rhodes I would be making sure I knew what I was moving to when Warwickshire have signed two players mid season from other counties, plucked a player out the local leagues over here from Australia and playing as an overseas pro for the summer and question whether the opportunities sold to you might ctily be there when you arrive.

Sidebottom is another Pattinson who may have to question his loyalties if called up by England. In the previous case Darren Pattinson played for England and probably regretted it whilst his brother played for Australia. Sidebottoms brother I believe plays international sport for Australia at rugby league or aussie rules. He may have a British passport but will he want to play for England ?

 
 
JG
(Login _JG_)

Re: One Ryan Sidebottom....

August 9 2017, 7:46 AM 

Not my main point here but OHD averages nearly 40 with the ball in FC cricket- I don't think there's much debate. He's done well to prolong his professional career by massively improving his white ball bowling but I'm not sure whether that will be enough for him to get a new contract. If he and and his fellow bowlers were performing to a decent standard then Warks wouldn't have had to pluck this guy from club cricket- it's similar to when we had to bring in Wardlaw and Harmison as our pace bowling options were so weak.

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: One Ryan Sidebottom....

August 9 2017, 10:07 AM 

NQ = Non Qualified for England.

That, IMO, should be the criteria. One per team would stop all this English passport, Irish Uncle, Dutch Aunty, Kolpak rubbish.

If you are NQ, you are an overseas player!!

Quite frankly, it is getting stupid now - some teams have 6 or 7 NQ players in their teams every match.




    
This message has been edited by StuartRA on Aug 9, 2017 10:09 AM


 
 
Guest
(Login TykeTim)

Re: One Ryan Sidebottom....

August 9 2017, 10:25 AM 

It's not based on opinion though Stu, it's based on employment law.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: One Ryan Sidebottom....

August 9 2017, 10:48 AM 

It's based on who clubs contract as players. They can choose who they give a contract too and some prefer to try and buy instant success.

If you're trying to tell me all clubs have to have some kolpaks and non qualified for England players then we have missed a trick. Hampshire Glamorgan Lancashire Leicts Northants all seem to be buying in players on this basis. Us and Durham seem to favour a home grown youth policy.

I suspect it's partly a reaction to our success where others needed immediate answers to compete withbus

 
 
marsker
(Login marskeman)

Re: One Ryan Sidebottom....

August 9 2017, 10:52 AM 

it is becoming obvious we need a solid reliable batsman in the top 3. A pujara, williamson, hashim amla type to try to avoid the 40 for 4 scenario common over the last 2 seasons.

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: One Ryan Sidebottom....

August 9 2017, 11:46 AM 

Tyke Tim --- Yes, I am aware that it is based on Employment Law.

For the good of English cricket though, it is time the ECB put massive financial disincentives in place to discourage counties not to sign these players and play England qualified players in their place. When I say massive - why not 1/2 a million less from the annual ECB grant to all counties for every NQ player they have signed up. That would discourage them, if you hit them financially.

Nothing they can do legally, but discouragement via finance might help.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

There's sure to be a law against it

August 9 2017, 5:43 PM 

The ECB may be able to get away with a certain level of financial incentives in order to get the counties to play more England Qualified players.

If they try and stick a huge financial obstacle in the way of NQ players I'm sure someone will get the courts involved. They will very likely rule it unlawful 'restraint of trade' or some such judgement.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: One Ryan Sidebottom....

August 9 2017, 6:14 PM 

Correct. Plus someone like Bransgrove wouldn't miss the ECB money, he'd fund any shortfall himself. The poorer counties would then just have to play a lot of young English players to avoid missing out on money which, without, they would go bust and the overall standard of cricket would severely suffer.

 
 
 
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