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Idle Man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 9:32 PM 

If,say, Harry Brook scored two slowly crafted centuries in the CC, no-one would argue that he should be in the t20 side. Why do Willey's admittedly excellent knocks in the t20 mean he could have laid a bat on Amir in the Championship? I know, neither did most of the others.

I suspect the management feel they've been here before. They picked Willey to some extent as a batsman at Lord's last September, and he was a disaster.

 
 
marsker
(Login marskeman)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 9:33 PM 

regarding the recent clamour for david willey to be selected for championship cricket, whenever i have watched him he has been totally out of his depth in red ball cricket.

 
 
Kevin Owens
(Login kevinowens)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 9:52 PM 

I can see Willey leaving us. He came here to improve in the longer format of the game and he's written off over a few games yet God forbid we slate a Yorkshire born player. Which half of them have been shocking for the last 18 months

 
 
Leg Glance
(Login legglance)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 10:00 PM 

If they had been 'shocking' for the last 18 months then surely Willey would have broken through and maintained a place in he red ball team.

He hasn't and that's nothing to do with his place of origin.


    
This message has been edited by legglance on Aug 8, 2017 10:00 PM


 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 10:07 PM 

How many consecutive CC matches has he played? Give him a run.

This 8th seamer nonsense needs putting to bed.

 
 
Leg Glance
(Login legglance)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 10:17 PM 

Good point Dwight .

Without checking I wonder how many he has been available for with his squad call ups and the clash with 4 day games along with the schedule meaning he may have been available when there were no matches being played?

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

David Willey

August 8 2017, 10:28 PM 

David Willey is a bowler who can bat a bit in anything other than white ball cricket.

In the CC he would ideally play as the 4th seamer, in the team instead of Bresnan. Probably justified on Bresnan's current form, but not really possible as long as he is acting as Captain.

Willey hasn't been given much of a chance yet. It might be sage judgement by the coaching staff, but of course we all have differing views on just how sage the coaching staff are.

If it was up to me I'd play him for the rest of the season instead of Sidebottom, bowling first change and coming in to bat after Rashid but before Hodd.

It wouldn't be ideal I admit, but much as I like him and am grateful to him, I didn't enjoy watching Sidebottom trundling up to bowl on Sunday.

 
 
Idle man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 10:34 PM 

Why is it nonsense? The 7 above him are, in my view, Sidebottom, Coad, Brooks, Patterson, Bresnan, Plunkett, and Fisher. Most of them are clearly superior. There are none where describing them as better than Willey is 'nonsense'. Even in white ball games, which I haven't seen, I'm told he's lost some of his ability to swing it. The balls may be more to blame than the bowler.

Which leaves us with his batting. Like Rhodes, given a spell at no 6 or 7, he might establish himself, but as another poster has said, he's done nothing to suggest it's likely. Those of us who watch the CC side regularly are I think more inclined to feel he has been at times selected generously (for instance in my view Plunkett would have been the better pick at Lord's last year) rather than left out unfairly.

He may indeed leave. That would be sad, but not unpredictable. The original aims were too different. He wanted to develop or be developed into a first class all rounder pushing for a test place. We wanted a t20 match winner. There was always a fair chance it would end unhappily.

In my view, the 'nonsense' was the idea that he could step into Ryan's shoes. Love to be proved wrong, but I can see no sign of it whatsoever. He might replace Bresnan, but you couldn't yet justify that.

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 10:40 PM 

Plunkett should have played ahead of Gale at Lord's, but that's a different debate.

You've had it in for Willey since day one. I suspect he's going to have you lobbing down humble pie between now and the end of the season. We will see..

 
 
Guest
(Login FreshStart1987)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 10:55 PM 

I think Willey deserves the remaining 4 games to show us what he can do. Nobody else apart from coad has offered anything so we need to try something new because right now we are going down without a fight and are tumbling towards div 2. Main priority next season tho is finding two batsmen to get 1000+ runs and for me the only place to get them will be as a kolpac and hopefully in the form of Marsh

 
 
Idle man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 11:08 PM 

Sorry Dwight, that's ridiculous. I was actually quite pleased at the signing, but worried that he would struggle to find a role in the Championship side, given our depth of seam bowling. The decline of our attack this season still doesn't convince me he could be a real force as a replacement.

I haven't 'got it in for' any of them. I'm not someone at ease with 2 lines beginning 'pathetic' when it comes to this team. It's easy to make a case for anyone outside the team at the moment. And humble pie? If Willey gets in and delivers runs and wickets, I'll be absolutely delighted.

 
 
Tyke1950
(Login Tyke1950)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 11:11 PM 

Heresy alert!

The Yorkshire seam attack is senescent. Time to be a bit brutal, as I remember the England selectors were in 2008 with Hoggard and Harmison.

Sidebottom, Brooks and Bresnan are a fast fading force. On the evidence of the Scarborough game neither Brooks or Sidebottom are even close to being the bowlers they once were.
The time has come for Coad to be given responsibility for the new ball. Willey, the man signed as Sidebottom's successor, needs to play regularly for the rest of the season and Fisher should replace Brooks.
Bresnan should be retained as the wise old supporter and mentor of the new attack, and opportunities for Waite should be found.

The performance this week was so desperately poor that radical alternatives are needed.

I would be advocating similar action with the batting if there were any valid alternatives. Perhaps Marsh and Ballance may be available to replace Brook and Koehler Canmore by the time of the Middlesex game.

I've previously promised to refrain from this kind of talk, but I just can't resist as I brood over the awfulness of Sunday and Monday.

The team looked utterly shot. Heaven knows what may be bubbling under behind closed doors. The body language on Monday morning spoke volumes.

My guest house breakfast was punctuated by guffaws from Essex supporters, keen to reflect on the abject nature of Yorkshire's surrender. They could hardly believe what they saw.
Neither could I!


 
 
LUTyke
(Login Y4EV)

The squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 11:23 PM 

Where has all this criticism for Sidebottom suddenly come from? He's one of the few that have actually turned up this year, averaging 18 with the ball, he was the main reason for our Somerset victory and was a real help in the Lancashire victory. To drop him now would be moronic suicide. I don't think the bowling attack has declined anywhere near the amount some are making out, Patterson and Brooks aren't having their best years but Coad's been a brilliant find. Think there could be more to come from Plunkett too. Our problems are almost all down to the batting imo.

 
 
garywilson
(Login garywilson2)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 11:34 PM 

What i saw at Scarborough was a world class fast bowler turn in a world class performance on a wicket which suited him .
The difference between the 2 teams was Amir.

How many times have we seen Siddy destroy good batting sides when conditions were right ? Or JB win games off his own bat by making good attacks look ordinary ? This time it was our turn to come up against a match winner .

Of course there are issues we need to address but few batsmen would have coped with a fired up Amir.

 
 
Lew
(Login Lewis116)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 9 2017, 7:06 AM 

Brooks has been one of the best County bowlers over the last 2 seasons. This season has been affected by injuries.

He is only early 30's.

This isn't football. Givs him a chance.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 9 2017, 7:19 AM 

Having seen Brooks and Sidebottom on Sunday both have sadly faded from last season and are no longer the force of old. It's easier to spot with Siddy and we know he is retiring but for Jack I'm afraid his bowling lacks penetration and is expensive which in low scoring games with our poor batting is hard to accommodate.

Bres too has slowed down and has other burdens. Willey gets better by not playing in comparison and must be given a go even if just to pick a form player from t20 with confidence to boost morale

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Apples & Pears

August 9 2017, 8:54 AM 

If the perception is that Willey gets better the less he plays then Fisher must be just about ready for an England call up by now.

He played his first, of only 3, first class games in Apr 2015 and his last in Sept 2015. He has 5 first class wickets.

I know he has had injury problems but he's been available to be selected for quite a while now, and he hasn't been.

Watched him lately in white ball, lovely action, ball ends up going a long way.

Willey has at least got 161 fc wickets from 64 matches under his belt.

I don't see Willey as a strike bowler but I think he's a good fit as the bowling all-rounder. That position is currently blocked by Bresnan and there is no way round that until Ballance comes back so give him a try as first change.

We have 4 matches left in the CC, perhaps Sidebottom might win one of those for us and perhaps he won't. He look tired and painfully slow on Sunday.

Fisher is only 19 so I'm not writing him off but if he's the player he has been built up to be then he needs to be playing at least the odd 4 day game.

 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 9 2017, 9:43 AM 

Interesting isn't it. I agree that Ryan looked laboured in Scarborough, but he was coming back from a lay-off and he hasn't exactly run in with gusto for a while.

Yet his season's record is actually very good and suggests that he has been penetrative - 21 wickets at 18.5 with a strike rate of 41 and 9th in the national averages. Coad has a marginally better strike rate (38).



 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Sidetracked

August 9 2017, 10:05 AM 

I'm as guilty as anyone on getting sidetracked here.

The batting is the major problem and if you can't get any runs on the board you don't really give your bowlers a chance.

Watching Amir, Porter and Coad running in with such gusto made everybody else look pretty pedestrian.

To be fair they didn't have too much bowling to do and we didn't get to see their skill over normal match conditions. It's not what you look like but how many wickets and for how many runs that count.

All that being said Coad should have had the new ball.


 
 
Idle man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 9 2017, 10:24 AM 

We're getting two debates overlapping here. One concerns next season and onwards. Here the questions concern the rate of decline of our bowlers and how to manage it. Ryan is going anyway. Brooks may be less potent. He can't afford to decline much because, though an excellent signing, he is a flawed bowler whose economy rate is always weak. A little decline could leave him a poor bowler. Patto I assumed would be able to bowl his stuff for quite some time, but, Taunton aside, he's not been quite himself this year. Too early to say whether those two are in decline or having a blip. Bresnan will be an automatic choice as fourth seamer as long as his batting merits it. His credit in the bank from last year was huge, but it's being used steadily. Therefore I could see an attack of Fisher, Coad, plus two, by next year or the year after. The Bresnan role would be available to Willey or Waite. At present I don't think they're good enough bowlers to both be there, but that could be harsh. Willey's first-class batting would need to improve too. Waite is at an early stage. I too wonder why Fisher has not played more. I wonder if they're being very protective after his injury problems.

As for the batting.....God help us. Brook and TKC need the chance to play in different circumstances - like coming in at 150-3, not 15-3. I can't see us being really good again unless we keep Ballance, make a good overseas/kolpak signing, and have a recovery from someone amongst the others.

Damage limitation this season is more urgent - Ballance and Marsh will make a difference, but I can't see how the opening pair can just go on and on. Others outside the team would already be in if they were going to make a huge difference. Willey, Waite, Tattersall, whoever, are all gaining in currency by being out of all this, but I really don't think they're going to turn things round. Hope I'm wrong, but the answer as they say, lies within.

 
 
 
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