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The Squad - moving forward

August 7 2017 at 10:54 PM
Frank Smith  (Login FreshStart1987)

First message on this forum here but I've been gone from frustration to pure anger over the pathetic attempts at a performance this season.

I think the issues we are talking about have been going on for the past two years now and these collapses are not new they have become frequent over the two seasons and highlight our major flaws.

• gale and moxon need to go we need fresh voices
• lack of a decent consistent oversees run machine since Jaques/Rudolph
• kolpac players are the only option ( number 3 or opener and an opening bowler desperate)
• Ageing players need replacing Brooks, sidebottom, Bresnan and plunkett (injuries and England One day)
• find a wicketkeeper who contributes (foakes, butler, Davies come to mind)
• offer silverwood and McGrath the job

Looking from the outside I do believe we should abandon this year and pick two of the best young batsmen/keeper and get them in at number 5 and 6. Take the pressure off then shield them from the new ball. Relegation should be embraced looking at the pathetic inept performances.

I'd go for (rest of the season)

Lees (4 games to save his career for me)
Marsh (potential for next year)
Cadmore or callis
Keeper from academy (can't be worse than hodd)

Nothing to lose now

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(Login Y4EV)

The squad - moving forward

August 7 2017, 10:56 PM 

why do we have the same thread twice?

(Login Me4791)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 7:38 AM 

Can't see Callis getting a chance. He can't even get in the 2nd XI.

(Login whiterosetom)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 7:56 AM 

Just a couple of problems.

1) Ballance is injured (Back for Spetember?)

2) If we had a keeper better than Hodd i'm sure he'd have been given a chance by now. Brook is thought of as the best potential in the academy and he can't buy a run in championship cricket.

3) How has Fisher been doing for the 2nds? I haven't really been keeping up with that this year but he hasn't been great in the T20s.

4) Do we have the budget for Kolpac wages? We're millions in debt.

Quite simply we don't have the quality with the injuries / internationals out. No matter who the coach is a team with Brook, TKC and players who haven't even been performing for the 2nds in the top 6 isn't going to stand a chance against teams with the likes of Sangakara, Chanderpaul or Cook.

This message has been edited by whiterosetom on Aug 8, 2017 8:32 AM

(Login Me4791)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 8:14 AM 

Beneath Hodd the two keepers in the academy have been Ben Birkhead and Jonathan Read. From the scorecards I've seen it appears they have been sharing wicketkeeping duties this season.

(Login sid-don)
Assistant Moderator

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 1:46 PM 

Frank: I assume you see nothing of the 2nds!

Callis cant get a game with them so noway is he anywhere near the 1st team.

Keepers: Read is the better keeper and Birkhead a significant better batsman. Neither can be considered remotely near first team selection.

I've seen a fair bit of the 2nds this year, no-one is pressing for inclusion with the first team with the exception of Waite who at the moment due to injury is playing as a batsman only and to be fair to Waite he's going to be a decent first team player not a 'white knight' saviour of a sinking team.

I realise I've posted this several times previously but Will Rhodes is the stand out player and would surely have played at Scarborough if not leaving. Interesting he's still captaining the 2nds most of the time and will lead them in their T20 finals day later this month at Arundal.

(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 3:00 PM 

I suspect Gale is refusing to pick Rhodes out of fear of criticism for letting him go if he does score runs.


(Premier Login AlexRoberts)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 3:12 PM 

As part of today's (and several other days) underperformance and the comments made on here and elsewhere it's obvious that many see a lot of our squad as no longer good enough. My thoughts below, it would be interesting to hear others, especially those who see a lot more cricket than me. (I'm referring below to red ball cricket only) I've included the England boys although I know we won't see much of at least 2 of them:


Fisher (hoping next year is a big one for him)

Bresnan (I may be harsh here but on the basis of this season alone he's been poor)
Patterson (as above)
Brooks (same again)
Lees (feel he's worth one more season and think he'll come good)
Plunkett (would like to see him play more 4 day stuff when fit)


I've not included Willey/TKC/Rafiq as I see them as valuable white ball players but not red ball.

There's also a couple of less experienced players who I've left out, mainly due to my own lack of knowledge.


(Premier Login AlexRoberts)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 3:14 PM 

Re: The squad - moving forward August 7 2017, 7:32 PM

Based on what I have seen first hand over the last few years we have an issue with player availability, fitness, form and age in varying shades.

Lyth has the talent and attitude as yesterday showed.

Lees had to be taken out of the limelight to give him time away to work out what he needs to do. He is not a one day player so what has he done for the last month as I sense he has messed around playing second team t20 games instead of thinking about four day cricket where we need him. Poor management as much as anything.

Brook Lening and TKC have been drafted in due to emergencies where we have no England players or overseas plYers who normally fill 3-6 so in effect we are playing our reserves in the second team. Brady are out of their depth and need to learn their craft in the seconds but we have no other option unless batting Willey, Plunkett and Rafiq in the top 6 is better.

Our all rounders who bale us out so often cannot buy a run between them. Is Bres overloaded with being skipper? Is there another option? Is Rashid despondent knowing however well he does in four day cricket he won't get picked by England until the white ball comes out the cupboard?

Why have we ditched Patto and picked Brooks? Why does Coad not get the new ball? Why have Waite and Rhodes not been given opportunities ahead of TKC and Brook when both could do better?

Frankly it's a shambles but I'd let the new head coach decide who to retain and who to let go as I fear the current coach cannot survive much longer in view of recent performances, selections, tactics and player retention.


(Premier Login AlexRoberts)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 3:16 PM 

We have to start to look at Coad as a new ball bowler. Our bowling attack has grown old together. Brooks, Plunkett Patterson and Bresnan seemingly have very little left in the tank and Sidebottom is a month away from retirement. Hopefully Ryan hangs around to offer our young players the benefits of his expertise.
Maybe relegation will offer us a chance to start again in the bowling department with maybe 1 or at most 2 of the older players kept on to balance the experience of the attack.

The batting however is even worse. In the absence of a quality keeper/batsman, this is further magnified. Yorkshire are going to have to recruit heavily to fill in the gaps here. Our cupboard is at the moment close to bare.

The situation is approaching desperate.

I cannot believe how casual we throw our wickets away. Every championship season offers at most 28 opportunities to bat per season. Every wicket is over 3% of the season.


(Premier Login AlexRoberts)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 3:16 PM 

Re: The squad - moving forward August 7 2017, 9:21 PM

I'm probably more focused on the time to leg go aspect, and for me I would include Lees, Leaning and Hodd who has a poor average and rarely contributes enough.


(Premier Login AlexRoberts)


August 8 2017, 3:17 PM 

Re: The squad - moving forward August 7 2017, 9:36 PM

Red ball cricket excluding JB, Root and Ballance:

Good enough for div 1: Lyth, Lees, Leaning (possibly), Bres, Patto, Coad, Plunket (fitness issues aside), Willey (although based on a very small sample size) and Ras.

Not good enough: TKC and Rafiq

Borderline: Brookes

Worth waiting for but not now: Fisher, Brook and Waite

Best we'll get in circumstances: Hodd

Scandal he's leaving: Rhodes

2nd teamers maybe worth a go: none. The coaches have to get those in my 'good enough' list firing and wring the last drop from the fragile and aging seam attack.


(Premier Login AlexRoberts)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 3:19 PM 

Re: The squad - moving forward August 7 2017, 10:06 PM

I still feel TKC will come good next season


(Premier Login AlexRoberts)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 3:20 PM 

Re: The squad - moving forward August 7 2017, 10:25 PM

Ballance(c) (when available)
Rashid (when available)
Plunkett (when available)

Personally wouldn't get rid of any, the bowling is aging but on the bright side there is alot of young talent in that department ready to break through, though we may have to accept a few years of transition there. TKC has only started his Yorkshire career and been thrown into the deep end so saying he's not good enough I think is harsh. Wouldn't normally promote the signing of Kolpak's but with the current situation I don't think one is the end of the world. Whoever is in the best form between TKC, Leaning (who is treading) and Brook takes 3, obviously another will get in if Ballance remains away with England.


(Premier Login AlexRoberts)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 3:20 PM 

Re: The squad - moving forward August 7 2017, 10:49 PM

I am sorry but flaggergasted at one of the ckmments above about maybe letting Bresnan go.

We are all frustrated but we need to fristratingly accept we are in transition.

You look at the team and it had 5 batsmen playing, 4 of which are 23 or under. That tells you everything. There is no point binning half of them off when we have invested in them. The solution is a few proven players (An overseas batsman like Marsh and hopefully the return of Balance).

What I would suggest is maybe a change in the batting line up. Lyth and Lees doesn't work. Maybe move Lees down to free him the stress of opening.

I would personally stick with Lees. Ballance aside our batting has gone backwards...Maybe we need a batting coach?

Hodd is a decebt player but the balance will always be wrong without a better batting keeper. Harsh but true. Those who said "Bres and Rash means playing Hodd at 8 is fine" have been shown this season that it isn't enough.

Bowling is more positive. In Coad we have found a gem. I still have faith in Brooks. We could do with Plunkett being around a bit. Fisher has stalled which is a concern. Willey I have a feeling is becoming more batting than bowling...


(Premier Login AlexRoberts)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 3:23 PM 

We've combined several threads which dealt with the same topic. Some of the posts may be out of chronological,order, but we've included everyone's comments.


(Login RedhillBlade)

The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 7:08 PM 

Not enjoying the defeatist talk of relegation and regrouping in Div II

This lot have got to get to us out of this hopefully with the help of Marsh. Ballance desperately needed back and not sure he'll get in England team.

The batting is the problem. Handscomb has been v poor and no better than Hodd behind the stumps.

We need a top overseas batsman(Williamson?)regardless plus a Kolpak batsman for next season. The other batsmen will have to fight for their places.

The bowling squad looks ok with Coad & Fisher v promising & lot's of experience. Willey to replace Ryan for me.


Lyth, Lees, Leaning - not sure what's gone wrong here but Gale & Moxon need to earn their corn maybe need to dish out a bollocking. Lees has to drop down the order & try Leaning higher

Brook/TKC - promising,young/lacking experience. All 5 plus Waite need to head south. All need to go down under for the winter and play district cricket - possibly state cricket if possible(Lyth). The 2 youngsters should go to SA & work with Gillespie and possibly Lehmann. They should get a visit from the coaches too. Noted that NZ didn't work for Lees but Oz tougher.

Team to save the season:

Lyth, Leaning, Marsh, Lees, Balance, Bresnan, Hodd, Rashid, Coad, Brooks, Sidebottom. Sub state of wickets use Plunkett and /or Patterson.

Idle man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 8:20 PM 

Agree with the general tone of that - these players have got to get us out of this mess.

Other points: Handscomb was not just ' no better than Hodd' as a keeper, he's nowhere near as good. And in fairness, would never claim to be, he's made it clear he doesn't want to keep in first class matches.

All Jack Leaning's success two years ago came at 5 or 6. Pushing him up to 3 began his decline. I certainly wouldn't repeat the experiment on the basis of one knock of 70.

There's no easy answer to all this. If there were wiser heads - or at least more knowledgeable- than ours would have identified them. Lots of dilemmas. The Rhodes issue is one of them. When he was last in the team he looked out of his depth, and was commonly pasted for his efforts on here. When he went into the second division he was batted at 8. I'm sorry to see him leave. Ideally he'd be given five games at no 6, but you couldn't possibly justify that. I suspect Waite has jumped above him. I certainly don't think it was a stupid decision, though it will have been a difficult one which may come back to haunt us. I see a previous victim of such a decision took 0-100 for Leics a day or two back.

And despite comments from several other posters I'm interested we still have contributors who know exactly how good or bad players are, but not how to spell their names.

(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: The Squad - moving forward

August 8 2017, 8:43 PM 

Willey should play every Championship game until the end of the season. Bat him wherever you like.

Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Calmed down

August 8 2017, 9:07 PM 

I think it's nice that people care so much that they get angry and go a touch over the top on the spur of the moment after a result we have just had.

Sacking MM, Gale, Pyrah and half the contracted players though is not really an option.

Our best hope is that we get our Captain back in the kind of form he had before his England recall and he and Marsh can give some solidity to the batting.

Perhaps Brook and TKC might have the right stuff and just need a bit of guidance to help them towards reaching their potential.

It can't be easy joining an apparently sinking ship.

In the short term we need a 3 decent T20 results to cheer us all up.

This message has been edited by Coastalview on Aug 8, 2017 9:09 PM

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