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Guest
(Login sooty-yorkie1)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs the West Indies at Headingley (Match Thread)

August 26 2017, 7:51 PM 

I'm not sure it's a selection issue, whatever player they pick they don't seem able to do the job. We've had one after another top order batsmen and they've been given a reasonable stab at performing when it matters but none seem able to do it.
So I don't think I'd point the finger at the selectors, they can only pick the players that are available, unfortunately there's not many about.

Mind you I wouldn't worry too much about the WI test matches do vary wildly from hammering one side to loosing badly the next, seems to be the way of modern test match cricket.

 
 
Guest
(Login swfctyke)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs the West Indies at Headingley (Match Thread)

August 26 2017, 8:13 PM 

Been today. Hard toil for England. Never looked like taking many wickets. Could be a struggle to save the game as it's totally different batting under scoreboard pressure.

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs the West Indies at Headingley (Match Thread)

August 26 2017, 8:23 PM 

Long way to go still.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Pundits

August 26 2017, 8:27 PM 

TMS Pundits seem to be throwing up the idea of Hales and even Roy as possible candidates for the Ashes.

Not opening I hasten to add, but coming in down the order as replacements for Westley, who they have written off, and Malan, who might get another test if he scores some in the 2nd innings of this one.

Thinking seems to be the selectors have got it wrong again and it's too late now for somebody new to be thrown in down under.

Although Hales and Roy wouldn't be perfect they at least have some International experience and wouldn't be intimidated.

I think I could live with Hales batting at 5, not so sure about Roy.

 
 
Guest
(Login swfctyke)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs the West Indies at Headingley (Match Thread)

August 26 2017, 10:34 PM 

Fair play to the windies. Nobody would have thought this.
As for Hales and Roy, haven't we been there before?

 
 

Guest
(Login matthefish2002)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs the West Indies at Headingley (Match Thread)

August 26 2017, 10:47 PM 

Been to Headingley today and enjoyed the lovely weather. Crowd bit rowdy but not over the top.

Thought Windies were superb after Edgbaston.
Predicted after 3rd wicket went down that Windies would be all out for 150. But the Braithwaite Hope partnership took everyone by surprise.

Toying with idea going Monday when tickets are £15 and I am off work. Will decide Sunday evening.

 
 
Twelfth Man
(Login twelthman)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs the West Indies at Headingley (Match Thread)

August 26 2017, 11:17 PM 

I shall certainly attend Monday if there is still a reasonable amount of cricket to be played. I always want England to win but it is hard not to want the West Indies to do well and wouldn't mind witnessing them achieve an historic win, should they manage it.

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs the West Indies at Headingley (Match Thread)

August 27 2017, 12:52 AM 

People on here have hammered the likes of Hales, Roy and Buttler because they are white ball Cricketers. The sad reality is they appear to be better than the rest at the red ball stuff too!

 
 
Idle man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs the West Indies at Headingley (Match Thread)

August 27 2017, 7:16 AM 

We're transferring our Yorkshire habit to England. If you're out of the team your reputation rises.

 
 
Brian
(Login NewBrian)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs the West Indies at Headingley (Match Thread)

August 27 2017, 10:24 AM 

Paul Farbrace giving a very honest interview on Sky now - what a good man he seems to be. 'Lack of concentration and maybe taking the eye off the ball' in this Test. Bowlers not getting ball in right place consistently.
Adamant that people have to adapt their games to Test cricket but need to 'find the right time to make adjustments'.

Return to Yorkshire in the future?

 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs the West Indies at Headingley (Match Thread)

August 27 2017, 12:53 PM 

You could make a statistical case for Hales's inclusion, based on his county red-ball performances. He has been tried before, but as an opener, and he might get another go as a number 5. It is hard to find any justification for Roy or Buttler, especially when Buttler at least opted out of a chance to play for Lancs this season. I think Roy was in the IPL too, but didn't play much?

Obviously all three are 'talented' and we all know there's more to it than figures; but there has to be some commitment to learning the skills required, doesn't there?

Part of the problem is that our young county batsmen are not exposed to the quality of bowler that they would have met 30 years ago. This is partly the fault of the ECB for preventing Anderson, Broad and Co from playing. More, it's the changing economic situation where foreign bowlers can now earn a fortune for playing a month in India, when back then they were all in England.

Actually, the development of young batsmen is being helped by Kolpak South Africans. So perhaps these ought to be encouraged!

 
 
Idle man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs the West Indies at Headingley (Match Thread)

August 27 2017, 1:10 PM 

There's a shortage or real test quality talent, but in the sort of situation England now face in this match I know who I would want at no 5, from the available choices, if fit. I'm afraid it's Gary Ballance.

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: 2nd Test | England vs the West Indies at Headingley (Match Thread)

August 27 2017, 1:45 PM 

Agree, the nr 5 problem for England could be solved very easily by playing GaryB there in his best position, instead of trying to make him into a nr 3 which he patently is not.

 
 
Leg Glance
(Login legglance)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs the West Indies at Headingley (Match Thread)

August 27 2017, 1:57 PM 

What does anyone think of the clamour from some pundits for Root to bat at 3 thus 'solving one of the problems'?

Would it help or is it akin to re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic?

FWIW I think he should stay at 4 ( which tends to be 3 anyway when you take into account how often 2 of the the top 3 fail)

 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs the West Indies at Headingley (Match Thread)

August 27 2017, 2:20 PM 

Root is very much the 'obvious' number 3. Opener by upbringing and technique, and clearly the best player.

On the other hand, if a captain wants to bat 4, to give his mind a rest after 150 overs in the field, I would very much go with that. But why shouldn't he bat 3 if England bat first? Someone like Moeen Ali could do the 3 spot and everyone move down one under other circumstances.

But they've never* liked doing this in FC cricket, commonplace at club level.

* But look at old scorecards, especially pre-WW1, when amateurs thought nothing of moving the pros around so they themselves could indulge their whims. Which is probably why the pros won't wear it nowadays.

Oddly, a lot of Test captains have been openers. Hutton, Gooch, Brearley, Atherton, Strauss, Cook come to mind, without even having to think. They seem to have coped.

But, oh for a Ken Barrington at 3!

 
 
Idle man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs the West Indies at Headingley (Match Thread)

August 27 2017, 3:38 PM 

Quite. I'm not sure about Root. On the one hand, as you say, club cricketers seldom have their own slot, openers aside, but the pros are different. Quite what difference it makes when Joe has been in so often in the first hour, I'm not sure.

When this problem has arisen in the past, selectors have resorted to picking a third opener to do the job, but at the moment we're struggling to find two, never mind three. At one point in the winter it appeared we were going to kick off with Cook, Hameed, Jennings, but.....

 
 
Brian
(Login NewBrian)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs the West Indies at Headingley (Match Thread)

August 27 2017, 4:03 PM 

Lovely interview between Jonathan Agnew and his old captain Ray Illingworth at teatime on TMS which I hope they'll do as a podcast. The old boy sounds in excellent form. Still white lining the pitch at Farsley apparently. Talked about Australia 1970, teaching Gower to play spin and Joe Root's captaincy experience.

podcast here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02nrsl2/episodes/downloads


    
This message has been edited by NewBrian on Aug 27, 2017 6:12 PM


 
 
Leg Glance
(Login legglance)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs the West Indies at Headingley (Match Thread)

August 27 2017, 4:21 PM 

Westley just proving he's not the answer with an ill disciplined waft.

Re Root at 3. It does seem logical, given his pedigree,for him to bat at 3 but I suppose, as the captain, he has more of a say in it and probably feels more comfortable at 4.

There are more questions than answers

 
 
Brian
(Login NewBrian)

Re: 2nd Test | England vs the West Indies at Headingley (Match Thread)

August 27 2017, 4:35 PM 

Stoneman at least gutsing it out, despite hand injury. But the standard of this game really is very poor, isn't it? Worse than county cricket in some respects. Dropped catches, Keystone Cops fielding and missed run out.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Good days cricket

August 27 2017, 7:19 PM 

Marvelous entertainment today with the possibility of even better to come tomorrow. I hope they get a decent crowd in because the game deserves it.

I think it's curtains for Westley and I'm thankful that we don't have a game this round.

Whoever replaces him I think it will have to be someone who plays in this next round of matches. It was a mistake recalling Woakes without seeing him play so they are unlikely to make that mistake again.

That rules out Gary Ballance and if Hales gets some runs it may well be him.

 
 
 
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