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Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Spirit of cricket

September 15 2017, 9:06 AM 

I have a personal view that any action that denies an opponent achieving the maximum points they can is unsporting and against the spirit of cricket.

That includes declaring to deny bonus points in any situation. You could of course permit it and then give the missed bonus points t to the opposition as a matter of course, preferably by docking the points from the opposition

 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: Spirit of cricket

September 15 2017, 9:56 AM 

It is so difficult to write laws or regulations that cover all possibilities. I'm sure the Pembroke League will modify theirs in the light of what happened, but there's the great principle of common sense, and any cricket lover would feel the 'wrongness' of what Carew did. And they and their captain must have known they were doing wrong.

Take the denial of bonus points. I think Middlesex did wrong - and broke the regulations - by declaring with 8 wickets down, but you can imagine a situation when to declare would be quite legitimate.

Suppose Team Y had been bowled out for 100 on day 1, to which Team M had responded with 240 for 2. Then it rained for 2 days and play was not resumed until the 4th afternoon. Team M added the 10 runs for their 2nd batting point and then declared to try to force a win, 150 runs ahead with 50 overs remaining in the match.

Their obvious aim would be to win the game, not to deprive the other team of bowling points...but how do you word a regulation to allow this, whilst forbidding other declarations in other circumstances? Only by having a general principle, I would suggest, and leaving it to the officials (in practice, the umpires) to decide the rights and wrongs of any act.

There used to be a wonderful Law in Rugby Union (Law 26 3j - all the referees knew it). Law 26 was the Foul Play law, and a whole load of forbidden actions was listed. It is forbidden to....strike or kick an opponent, or trip him with the foot, etc.

The very last one was: It is forbidden to....commit any act contrary to the spirit of good sportsmanship, which meant that you (the referee) could basically penalise any player who annoyed you, and indeed you could send him off because, by definition, this was foul play. [Of course you didn't, but you could, and if you had, you would have been backed up to the hilt.]

The trouble is, we don't trust our officials any more. The Laws of Rugby have been rewritten, more in keeping with the modern age. But I hope the Pembrokeshire officials will have the courage to disqualify this obnoxious captain and his team. Then rewrite their regulations. Carefully.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: Spirit of cricket

September 15 2017, 10:12 AM 

Team A is at the top of a tight league, team B is near the relegation zone. Team A batting first and know the weather forecast later in the day is for torrential rain. Then declare half way through their innings having smashed 150 off 20 overs and deny the opposition potential bowling points. Team A win the game and the league as a result of this. Team B is relegated by 1 point.

Do we deny Team A the title and reinstate Team B into the league?

 
 
Guest
(Login WhiteroseDave)

Re: Spirit of cricket

September 15 2017, 10:37 AM 

No because in the that case the team were clearly declaring to improve their chance of winning the game.
The wording of the ECB rule on this says "An extraordinary declaration for the purposes of this rule is a declaration aimed primarily at denying the bowling side the opportunity to acquire further bonus points in that innings, but without enhancing the batting side's prospects of winning or saving the match. Such a declaration may, depending on the particular circumstances, be deemed as bringing the game into disrepute, penalties for which may include the deduction of points from the offending team."

 
 
JG
(Login _JG_)

Re: Spirit of cricket

September 15 2017, 10:53 AM 

Yes, unlike the Pembrokeshire rules, I think the ECB's wording is very clear on this, which makes it all the more strange that they haven't actually applied their own rules in this case...

The Carew thing is clearly a disgrace, why they thought that was a good idea I do not know.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: Spirit of cricket

September 15 2017, 11:05 AM 

Does the ECB's wording not relate to the County Championship? I was referring to local, league cricket, which I don't think run by the same set of rules.

 
 
Guest
(Login WhiteroseDave)

Re: Spirit of cricket

September 15 2017, 1:32 PM 

Ah! You might be right there, if these aren't the standard rules then maybe they should be? I certainly can't see why anyone would have any objection to these rules being added to all leagues.

 
 
Dewsburian
(Login Dewsburian)

Re: Spirit of cricket

September 15 2017, 5:52 PM 

From The Preamble to the Laws of Cricket in the section entitled "Responsibility of captains":
"The captains are responsible at all times for ensuring that play is conducted within the Spirit of the Game as well as within the Laws."

This is, I think, the clause that makes Middlesex's declaration last week improper and the one that will apply to the Carew case. Of course, it's very wide and a bit vague, but I can't see how Carew could get round it. "Win at all costs" is the diametric opposite of the spirit of the game (I'd personally prefer to have clear laws with clearly stated penalties, but we are where we are; to have these laws and not implement them would be the worst of all possible worlds).

There's a also a provision in the Preamble which says that
"The umpires are authorised to intervene in cases of:
Time wasting
Damaging the pitch
Dangerous or unfair bowling
Tampering with the ball
Any other action that they consider to be unfair"

The "Any other action" bit is intended to cover "black swan" events, such as someone turning up with an aluminium bat before the rule-makers had considered the possibility such a thing might ever exist. I'd have thought it would have given scope for the umpires to refuse to allow Carew to declare their innings closed. If the umpires had been a bit sharper on the day, they might have argued that if the Carew batsmen were to leave the field, they would be refusing to play on and hence forfeiting the game. But that's probably a lot to ask for the Pembrokeshire league.

 
 
JG
(Login _JG_)

Re: Spirit of cricket

September 16 2017, 11:43 AM 

My comments were referring to the Middlesex declaration. Clearly the playing regulations for the County Championship do not apply to any other competition...

 
 
Guest
(Login sooty-yorkie1)

Re: Spirit of cricket

September 27 2017, 12:04 PM 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-41404646


The league have made a decision. Relegated, the captain given a season long ban and the club fined £300. They are though to remain as champions.

 
 
JG
(Login _JG_)

Re: Spirit of cricket

September 27 2017, 12:12 PM 

What a ridiculous decision in every way.

-They keep the title they won unfairly.
-The relegation will surely mean they'll comfortably beat all of the teams in the division below next year, thus ruining the competitive balance of that competition.
-Financial penalties should not be applied to amateur sports clubs, many of which have trouble getting by anyway.

They should have just given them a points deduction which denied them this year's title and had done with it.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Spirit of cricket

September 27 2017, 1:04 PM 

Agree this is just poor on every level.

Punishments that hang over to the next season are unfair as with Durham last year. Their supposed crime impacted on this years title not next years. And fining a club in amateur land is just petty

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Spirit of cricket

September 27 2017, 1:35 PM 

Agree - 3 of the 4 decisions they have made in this instance are wrong. The only one they got correct was banning the Captain. I hope the league amend their rules, as after all none of the existing rules were broken, so they need to stop it happening again.


    
This message has been edited by StuartRA on Sep 27, 2017 1:37 PM


 
 
 
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