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Guest
(Premier Login AlexRoberts)
Owner

Re: Relegation - Good or Bad

September 14 2017, 6:00 PM 

We are a funny lot here, what with some of us downplaying the effects of Yorkshire being demoted, while others are effectively arguing that it would somehow be easier or preferable to rebuild our fagged out team from the second division.

Those sorts lof opinions certainly run counter to my sporting instincts and Yorkshire identity. And while I don't think demotion will lead to an exodus of players (with the possible exception of Rashid), I think there is a certain stigma attached to division two status, - as well a lower standard of competition. And a number of players on other teams have moved from a second division team to the top tier to enhance their chances of Test selection.

And given the fact there are 10 teams in the second division: mathematically speaking it is easier to get demoted than to win promotion. If we go down this year, Yorkshire could well stay down for several years.

Besides, the second division is not the place for England's proudest and most sucessful county team. Let's rebuild the team from the first division, and least enter the 2018 season with a CHANCE to add to our record County Championship haul. Can you imagine Man U or the New York Yankess preferring to rebuild their team from the second division or a lower tier?

What would Wilfred Rhodes, Len Hutton and Fred Trueman think of all this?

Alex
""

 
 
Guest
(Login Harrogateyorkie)

Re: Relegation - Good or Bad

September 14 2017, 7:17 PM 

More games for your membership in div 2!😉

Only joking, it would be a (sporting) disaster for us to get relegated, but I'm VERY confident it won't happen. As you say why not rebuild in the first?

One worry is Somerset last fixture. Middlesex.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Relegation - Good or Bad

September 14 2017, 7:25 PM 

Why is it a worry? They both can't win it?

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Relegation - Good or Bad

September 14 2017, 10:31 PM 

True, they both can not win it, but remember the last match last season, when we contrived with Middlesex to stop Somerset winning the CC.

Nothing would please Somerset better if they could get their revenge this year. Both teams need 8 points to stop up - who would bet against another contrived result and both teams getting just 8 points each. What is sauce for the goose.....


    
This message has been edited by StuartRA on Sep 14, 2017 10:40 PM


 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Relegation - Good or Bad

September 15 2017, 8:56 AM 

Revenge on who though? It was Middlesex as much as us who stitched them up last year and the odds were sacked in middlesexs favour so I'd back Somerset to bear more of a grievance against middlesex

 
 
JG
(Login _JG_)

Re: Relegation - Good or Bad

September 16 2017, 11:54 AM 

Just to be clear, Division Two teams don't play more games than Division One teams; sides in both divisions play 14 games, in Div Two they just don't play every other team twice.

 
 
Seadog73
(Login Seadog73)

Re: Relegation - Good or Bad

September 16 2017, 12:25 PM 

It wouldn't be a good thing and nor would it be a disaster. We were in division two in 2012, lest we forget, and it did us more good than harm. And why are we the "proudest county"? Are we prouder than any other, really? It's this overbearing and superior attitude which turns others against us and may well lead to contrivance at Taunton in a couple of weeks. I hope I'm wrong. Anyway I'm backing us to stay up off the back of our own efforts - we should beat Warwickshire and there's no better time to play the celebrating champions.

 
 
Guest
(Login BrickyardBoy)

Re: Relegation - Good or Bad

September 16 2017, 12:41 PM 

Definition of Pride:

"Overweening opinion of one's own qualities, merits, etc., a deadly SIN, often personified, arrogant bearing or conduct". (Concise Oxford Dictionary 1964).

Um!?


 
 
Irving08
(Login Irving08)

Re: Relegation - Good or Bad

September 16 2017, 2:28 PM 

There is nothing to be said in favour of relegation. It would cause recrimination; make it harder to attract good players to the club and, possibly, lead to player exits. There are no decisions regarding player retention and retirement that cannot be made while retaining Championship status. However I do think Yorkshire needs fresh leadership off the field to make these decisions. It needs it anyway: there is a sloppiness about Yorkshire this season, which no coach or cricket director should tolerate. Intelligence too has been lacking at times. So, I say, stay up, appoint a new leadership team and make the tough calls on players, particularly in the bowling department.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Player exit

September 16 2017, 6:08 PM 

I can't imagine any of the team seriously considering asking for a move if the club were to be relegated.

Unfortunately I don't think any of them are that ambitious.

That might be a bit harsh and I don't want it to be put to the test, but I've gone through the team in my own mind and I can't imagine anyone who would take the risk.


 
 
Pyrahtechnics
(Login Pyrahtechnics)

Re: Relegation - Good or Bad

September 16 2017, 10:30 PM 

"... to maintain their test aspirations by playing in Division 1"

"Is that really how it works? The last time Yorkshire played in the second division was in 2012. When did Joe Root make his England debut? December 2012. Is Chris Woakes likely to fall out of the England reckoning when Warwickshire are relegated? I appreciate that these things are frequently said, but does the evidence bear them out? For example, Jake Ball seems still to be ahead of Steve Finn in the England pecking order, despite Notts being in Div 2 and Middlesex in Div 1.
Just to add the obvious: Moeen Ali was first selected for England from Division 2. "

Yes - because that is how Yorkshire managed to persuade Jack Brooks, David Willey and Tom Kohler-Cadmore to leave their Division 2 counties. Willey himself broke into the England team whilst at Northants, but still joined Yorkshire the following year.

Lancashire are in the market for a pace bowler and it is rumoured that Kyle Jarvis is heading back to Zimbabwe. Plunkett still harbours test aspirations and may decide to move on if he can get guaranteed red ball cricket. Same goes for David Willey who is a good red ball player in all disciplines. Them two would enhance most, if not all Division 1 bowling attacks.

Notts are a frontline spinner short of being a formidable outfit, Adil Rashid may well be tempted to go to Trent Bridge to resurrect his test aspirations and be coached under the highly respected and experienced individual in Peter Moores than Andrew Gale.

 
 
Dewsburian
(Login Dewsburian)

Re: Relegation - Good or Bad

September 17 2017, 10:24 AM 

Pyrahtechnics: "Yes - because that is how Yorkshire managed to persuade Jack Brooks, David Willey and Tom Kohler-Cadmore to leave their Division 2 counties. Willey himself broke into the England team whilst at Northants, but still joined Yorkshire the following year."
The talk at Northants for almost a decade has been of the club going out of business. It came very near to that a couple of years ago. Perhaps Brooks and Willey left merely because they were ambitious to play at a bigger county, but Yorkshire would still be a "bigger" county in cricketing terms than Northants if their current positions in the table were reversed (Yorkshire have won 33 county championships, which is 33 more than Northants). Köhler-Cadmore left a team that were very likely to gain promotion to division 1 either this year or next. Though he was born in Kent, I think, his background is in Yorkshire and my understanding is that he wanted to come "home".

"Lancashire are in the market for a pace bowler... Plunkett still harbours test aspirations and may decide to move on if he can get guaranteed red ball cricket. Same goes for David Willey who is a good red ball player in all disciplines. Them two would enhance most, if not all Division 1 bowling attacks."
So Plunkett or Willey may leave for Lancashire because they can't always get into the current Yorkshire XI? I don't see what that has to do with relegation.

"Notts are a frontline spinner short of being a formidable outfit, Adil Rashid may well be tempted to go to Trent Bridge to resurrect his test aspirations and be coached under the highly respected and experienced individual in Peter Moores than Andrew Gale."
Notts looked a pretty formidable outfit last year and got relegated, despite being some people's tip to challenge for the title. Every team in the first division, with the possible exception of Warwickshire, is a frontline spinner short of being formidable, as Essex's signing of Harmer has shown (Saeed Ajmal showed the same thing a few years ago, before his action was remodelled). Do Notts have a good record of improving spinners? They had a promising one called Carter not so long ago, who took a big haul of wickets on debut, but I've not heard much of him lately.

In the days when there was just one division, Chris Broad left Gloucestershire to go to Notts because he thought he would have a better chance of playing for England there. He was probably right, but it had very little to do with respective positions in the table. Will Rhodes has chosen to move to Warwickshire, even though he must have known at the time that he would be playing second division cricket. I suspect he would have been reluctant to go to Glamorgan or Leicestershire.

 
 
Seadog73
(Login Seadog73)

Re: Relegation - Good or Bad

September 17 2017, 10:46 AM 

Agree with all of the above - the big counties are the big counties whatever division they are in. This is how players see it anyway. Essex are still one of the smaller counties regardless of their championship win.

 
 
Guest
(Login swfctyke)

Re: Relegation - Good or Bad

September 17 2017, 7:57 PM 

One of the great things about English county cricket is we have 18 wonderful counties, with wonderful and historic pasts.
If we go down, who won't enjoy a four day game at Chesterfield? I'll love it!!

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Relegation - Good or Bad

September 18 2017, 9:14 AM 

Chesterfield is only a few miles out of Yorkshire so feel free to go and see s four day game there .....


.....but just not against us!

 
 
 
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