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The future

September 19 2017 at 5:20 PM
JollyD  (Login JollyD)

 
There has been a certain amount of pessimism on here about the quality of players coming on. I wonder whether we are in danger of not comparing like with like. Three or four years ago we had half a dozen potentially exciting batsmen at our disposal. Root and Bairstow have moved on to higher things, as, to an extent, has Ballance. Lees, Leaning and Rhodes have not quite yet fulfilled early promise, but are still relatively young. Expectation that the club could continue to produce players of that quality like a conveyor belt was unrealistic.
You do not, however, need to be a Root or a Bairstow to serve a county side well.
During the season the second team won the 50 over competition with a very young side. At 24 James Wainman was the oldest Yorkshire player in the final. Also within the same age group, but not playing were Leaning, Coad, T K-C and Shaw (who at 21 incidentally, already has 53 first class wickets).
While success in a 50 over competition may not be an exact indicator of first class potential, it does suggest the existence of some talent.
The Academy side has performed consistently well in the Yorkshire League, and might well have won it this year but for a vengeful innings from Gibson and a masterclass from Rhodes for Stamford Bridge in the penultimate game.
The 15's are national champions with just one defeat in four seasons.
So there is plenty of potential for the coaches to work with. The headache for Moxon & co. is identifying the best of the best and then keeping them all happy and motivated. Ambitious young men in a time-limited career will not be content with second team cricket. Rhodes is an obvious case. But those decisions are what the managers and coaches are paid to make. We must trust them to make the right choices.

 
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Guest
(Login WhiteroseDave)

Re: The future

September 19 2017, 5:53 PM 

Always nice to read this kind of perspective thank you.
I know nothing of those yet to appear in first team cricket but do feel very encouraged by a few young (as in under 25) players. With the bat TKC, Lees and Leaning will hopefully be mainstays for the next 10 years, not of the Bairstow/Root class obviously but all seem talented enough for good county careers. With the ball Coad, Fisher & Shaw should be around taking wickets for us for a long time too although I'd be surprised if we didn't lose fisher or Coad to England at some point.
If those 6 can form the spine of our team accompanied in the coming years by the likes of Lyth, Balance Bresnan & Brooks it gives the next "batch" time to come through the system.
There is no getting away from the fact that we will need at least one quick bowler in the next couple of years and potentially another spinner but I'm optimistic that the future is bright.

 
 
LUTyke
(Login Y4EV)

Re: The Future

September 19 2017, 7:12 PM 

This season we've seen Coad, Fisher, Waite and Brook all make varying degrees of steps forward this season. Then Lees, Leaning and TKC are still young batsmen who are all very talented. There's still Carver who I'm hoping to see break through soon. I don't think there's any reason not to be optimistic about the future as long as we're coached well. After today I think we must consider promoting Fisher ahead of Brooks and Patterson for next season and personally I would let at least one of them go. I think to have a strong squad that can challenge for next season (assuming we stay up) we still need an opening batsman and an opening bowler.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: The future

September 20 2017, 10:12 AM 

Whatever happened to Mohsin Hussein?

Not heard much this year

 
 
Me4791
(Login Me4791)

Re: The future

September 20 2017, 7:09 PM 

He got releaed from the academy a year ago. Played for 2nd XI at 15 but cant have kicked on. Played for England U19 yet not good enough for a professional contract at Yorkshire


    
This message has been edited by Me4791 on Sep 20, 2017 7:30 PM


 
 
swfctyke
(Login swfctyke)

Re: The future

September 20 2017, 7:25 PM 

What we need to realise is players like Root and Bairstow come along every 25 years on average. Even man u have found iconic young players don't grow on trees.

 
 
Ian
(Login devon_outcast)

Developing from with in

September 20 2017, 10:28 PM 

Its great to see a possitive post about young players coming through rather than demands to buy in. Cricket is not football, i see team and player development being a longer term process, not having the big counties buying up the available talent should continue.

Its not too long ago that we were lording our junior development. Nearly 400 affiliated clubs etc. With the squad size and carear length of cricketers it seems reasonable to have 2 players a year 'breaking through'. With the names that you have listed Yorkshire are on track with that. Its an average and cohorts may group together but they are coming.

I am not so old school to only have yorkshire born players but i dont think its good for the club to be looking for quick fixes. If there is a ' Yorkshire way' of playing then this can be developed from the early teans and new players slot in to the teams.

The future is bright- if perhaps over the horizon.

Ian

 
 
Dewsburian
(Login Dewsburian)

Re: The future

September 20 2017, 10:47 PM 

It's quite a step from the U19s to a county contract. I remember watching a U19 international where Vaughan and Trescothick opened for England. Yorkshire had 6 other players in the team: McGrath, Silverwood, Keedy, Ismail Dawood, Alex Morris and Chris Schofield. Dawood and Morris went on to have only modest county careers and Schofield, despite a decent average in U19 tests, played only one county first team match.
Really prominent players at U19 level have often fallen by the wayside quite quickly: Matthew Dowman of Notts, who at times outshone Michael Vaughan, comes to mind.

 
 
Me4791
(Login Me4791)

Re: The future

September 21 2017, 7:43 AM 

The players you mentioned all got professional contracts with Yorkshire though. Hussain didn't even get that far. That's what is so unusual. Chris Schofield from that team was a pro for a couple of years. Apart from Hussain if they are good enough for England they tend to get through the academy stage and get a pro contract. Yes a few dont become regulars or have a decent career but they get on the first rung at least. Greg Wood, Ryan Gibson(assuming its over), Nick Thornicroft, James Lee, Gurman Randhawa among others all played for England U19s and got a pro contract at Yorkshire despite not making a longing impact at first XI level.

 
 
JollyD
(Login JollyD)

The future

September 21 2017, 8:41 AM 

Players develop, or in some cases, don't develop at different rates. Unfortunately Mosun Hussain hit a plateau and never quite managed to step up to another level. As far as I know, he has not had trials elsewhere subsequently. Others on your list did. Wood, for example, had a year at Notts, Randhawa tried his luck at Durhan, Dawood played briefly at a number of counties. None made further progress, thereby vindicating Yorkshire's assessment. Incidentally, I don't think Gibson played for England under 19's and in any case his career at Yorkshire did not come to an end solely because of lack of ability.
Hussain, meanwhile, has had an excellent summer scoring well over 1000 runs for Delph & Dobcross in the Huddersfield League. Yorkshire have also shown a refreshing willingness recently to review released players if they shine at league level. Azeem, Tattersall and Geldart come to mind.

 
 
sid
(Login sid-don)
Assistant Moderator

Re: The future

September 21 2017, 9:04 AM 

The step up to first team level is huge and that must never be forgotten. We do remarkably well to progress the players we do.

Root and JB quickly followed by the next wave of England under 19s (Rhodes, Fisher, Shaw, Tattersalls and Carver + Gibson who was on the England fringes) made it look easy - it isn't.

Also our boys are often exposed to good standard, hard and adult league cricket at an early age therefore bringing their development forward with others perhaps catching up in the late teenage years? How someone progresses from 18 to 20 usually defines whether they'll make the grade and movement though 2nd team cricket for the very best is often rapid.

Of the current crop, I like Waite (a lot), Brook, Barnes, Anjam and Shutt. If Ben Birkhead can improve his keeping, he's also got a chance. Logan seemed to be a 'good'un but has stalled a bit. Warner is held in high regard but I've seen little of him.

Others such as Wainman, Thompson, Callis appear unlikely to see much / any first team cricket.

I expect Ryan Gibson to get a go elsewhere especially as a 'white' ball cricketer.

One point to note is the incredible record our coaches have in deciding who to retain and who to let go - I cant think of anyone coming back to haunt us. Rhodes may, but he's asked to go to seek more 1st team opportunities - fair enough and Gibson has effectively been sacked due to disciplinary problems, again, fair enough.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Tattersal

September 21 2017, 9:05 AM 

Keep seeing his name, he may not quite have it as a top class batsman but he refuses to lie down.

Marvelous story if he did make it.

 
 
Me4971
(Login Me4791)

The Future

September 21 2017, 9:13 AM 

Hussain has played a couple of 2nd XI games for Leicestershire this summer.
Ryan Gibson played for England U19s when only just turned 17 in 2012/2013 in four one day internationals in South Africa.

 
 

Guest
(Login dpressed)

Re: The future

September 21 2017, 11:41 PM 

I have to back Sid's com!ent up.

In the past 10-20 years Yorks have let quite a few players go. Often there are posts on here suggesting that the coaching staff have got it wrong doing so. Whilst a few have had a career elsewhere the only players who've really 'made it's in the past 20 years have been Michael Lumb, who left rather than being released, Alex Wharfe (who was just unlucky that we had better bowlers available) and James Middleton (who was overtaken by Richard Dawson but let go by an Aussie coach who kept on a poorer Australian born spinner, namely Andy Gray)

 
 
Dewsburian
(Login Dewsburian)

Re: The future

September 22 2017, 9:38 AM 

I don't think Mo Hussain is unique in playing for the England U19s and not getting a Yorkshire contract. Wasn't there a leg spinner called Mark Boocock who did the same?

 
 
Me4791
(Login Me4791)

Re: The future

September 22 2017, 10:50 AM 

Mark Boocock? Don't know that name. Not on the Yorkshire archive and that has players who played for the first XI and the teams below.
http://cricketarchive.com/Yorkshire/Players/other_index.html

 
 
Dewsburian
(Login Dewsburian)

Re: The future

September 22 2017, 11:07 AM 

Boocock, Leeds-born, seems to have played for England U19 around 1980. He went on to play for Cheshire, Worcs II and MCC (one game in 1999 or thereabouts - info from "Cricinfo" is quite vague). Perhaps he was a Cheshire junior rather than a Yorkshire one. I suppose that at least makes him a player who was with England U19 but didn't get a first-class county contract.
I've a strange feeling that he may have gone on to be an airline pilot, but I may be confusing him with someone else.

 
 
Me4791
(Login Me4791)

Re: The future

September 22 2017, 11:40 AM 

I think John Sadler never got a professional contract at Yorkshire but played for England U19s at turn of the century. May have played 1 list A game for us as an Academy player and went to Leicestershire.

 
 
Guest
(Login ibby3)

Re: The future

September 23 2017, 7:42 AM 

DJolly- one of the main areas the first team have a problem in my view is the spinner in red ball cricket. Rashid doesn't play enough, Rafiq not good enough.
In your opinion is there a young spinner worthy of getting a chance at the moment? Or are have they not developed enough yet? Presuming someone like Shutt?

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: The future

September 23 2017, 9:21 AM 

I think this guy also born in Yorkshire and played England under 19s but never for Yorkshire.

He may have come through the Durham route although he will have been too young to play first class cricket for them.

Played against him many times too. Fast bowler of same age as Jarvis and sometimes the same team at Marske (marsker can confirm) but also a Saltburn player. No idea why the link references Sri Lanka unless that's where he toured with the under 19s around 1983/4

http://www.espncricinfo.com/srilanka/content/player/838151.html

 
 
 
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