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Idle man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 23 2017, 10:06 AM 

Not a word I disagree with there.

 
 
Guest
(Login Fozzie1973)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 23 2017, 10:21 AM 

The stats would suggest they are issues with our batting that need addressing, both openers only averaging 25, 24 batting bonus points from 13 games, only one batsman with more 550 runs to his name

 
 
Frank Smith
(Login FreshStart1987)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 23 2017, 10:22 AM 

Batting looks really strong
Total innings runs Yorkshire
400+ =1
300-400 = 4
200-300 = 9
100-200 = 7

Write a speech about our no9 being our top scorer and us winning does not mean we are a run machine. One swallow does not make a summer
Showing fight and grit should be the norm as a professional sportsman


    
This message has been edited by FreshStart1987 on Sep 23, 2017 10:27 AM


 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 23 2017, 10:23 AM 

The problem is you've now backed yourself into a corner and are being stubborn.

There were issues with top order collapses before this season but you kept telling everyone it was fine. I think this season has proved it wasn't. Of course even now with a whole host of batters averaging in the 20s. It's still all fine..


    
This message has been edited by Dwight_Schrute on Sep 23, 2017 10:24 AM


 
 
Guest
(Login Fozzie1973)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 23 2017, 10:29 AM 

Have to agree with Frank not Dave who seems to think everything is rosy in the garden, if no issues with our batting he's been watching a different team to me

 
 
Kevin Owens
(Login kevinowens)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 23 2017, 11:06 AM 

The batting is a problem DM and Idleman. Even in our championship winning seasons I remember us being bailed out by the tail a few times. It's like you're still living on past glories with this current team. For me and it pains me to say this but we are a team in decline. I genuinely fear relegation next season with the current crop we have.

 
 
Guest
(Login WhiteroseDave)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 23 2017, 11:58 AM 

The reality with our batting is most likely somewhere between the 2 conflicting opinions. Everything with our batting isn't perfect but it isn't inconceivable that any of Lyth, Lees, leaning, TKC and ballance could score 800-1000 runs next year, obviously they won't all do it but if 2 or 3 do then we'll be looking good, all are good enough to do so. That doesn't mean they've all performed well this year, obviously they (other than ballance) haven't bit that doesn't make them bad players or mean we have a batting crisis. As for the comments on the tail saving us on occasions, absolutely right they have but surely that is a positive? In this age where most bowlers can hold a bat what team doesn't have their tail come to the rescue from time to time? It certainly seems to happen against us. I'd say right now that it'll be surprised if we finish outside the top 3 next year.

 
 
Frank Smith
(Login FreshStart1987)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 23 2017, 12:14 PM 

Good points made but how do we know this barren run isn't just them declining in ability?? For so many batsmen to have terrible summers all at once is worrying. Perhaps a batting coach or new blood is needed?? In my eyes I'd like both.

It's all well and good saying TKC and leaning etc are talented but we need consistency and competition. You cant just be guaranteed a place on past glories if your not in form for a full season.

 
 
Guest
(Login BrickyardBoy)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 23 2017, 1:06 PM 

An important pre-condition to consistency of performance is consistency of selection. Particularly with Leening, this has not been the case.

Against that there has been a reluctance to address the position with regard to the openers which goes back well before this season. Only very belatedly, for the Surrey game, the partnership between Lyth and Lees was broken up and it immediately started to put a better complexion on things. At least there is now hope.

Put the two things together and it seems to me that over a longish period there has been some rather sluggish thinking/analysis. This is what needs to change.

 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 23 2017, 1:19 PM 

Pick your best batsman in the world - anyone you like - and there's no guarantee that he will make runs. Even Kane Williamson didn't really get many for us, not as many as he gets for New Zealand. We've had an Aussie top-order Test batsman this year, and he didn't look very good, didn't score many runs.

Batting in England in April, May and September is difficult, and you need some luck to survive, except on a road like The Oval. The new ball is particularly testing.

We have grown accustomed, since the introduction of 4-day cricket, to see an average of 40 as being the yardstick. 40 became the new 30. It's not gone quite the full circle back to the days when the likes of Close, Sharpe and Padgett would be happy to average low 30s, but a lot of pitches are very testing.

What is different, these days, is that numbers 9, 10, 11 are all accomplished batsmen in most teams, ours more than anyone's. Yet the fact that our 8 and 9 have won a game for us is held against the team, somehow. What sort of insanity is that? The Warwickshire number 8 (who would have been at 9 or 10 usually) scored 100. No fluke. He's a damn good player. As is Jack Brooks, who did the same (though on a road) against Lancashire. Don't be surprised if Ben Coad does it too, one day.

I stick with my opinion that a top order of Lyth, Lees, Leaning, Ballance and Hodd is perfectly adequate, Of course it would be better with Root and Bairstow, and obviously with a world-class overseas star - but I see our main problem as being the absence of a spinner.

To illustrate that: if we stick Essex in on Monday, we know we'll have to bat last against Harmer. If we bat, we'll have to face Porter and young Cook on a 10.30 am September pitch. No Harmer, no problem.

Middlesex are going to face the same dilemma at Taunton.

My guess is that we will bowl, while Middlesex will want to bat.

 
 
Guest
(Login Harrogateyorkie)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 23 2017, 1:40 PM 

I understand and take your points Frank re consistency, but the very nature if county cricket (to be honest average standard) lends itself to inconsistency.

Essex,relegated, promoted,champions. Middlesex, champions, could go down this.

Small numbers in divisions means this is inevitable

 
 
Guest
(Login Roundhegian)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 23 2017, 1:43 PM 

In the home Championship games particularly, there have been many bowler-friendly pitches this season.
Out of the seven home matches, five results and only two draws, both rain-ruined.
Three games were over in less than three days of playing time and only one team (Surrey) scored over 400 in an innings.

 
 
Seadog73
(Login Seadog73)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 23 2017, 3:08 PM 

The inconsistency people refer to comes from having two small divisions and a salary cap, meaning no team will ever dominate for long. Other sports could learn from this, one in particular!

 
 
Tyke1950
(Login Tyke1950)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 23 2017, 5:06 PM 

If only the Championship weren't relegated to the margins of the season, perhaps bowlers would acquire the skills of bowling on flat tracks and batsmen would, occasionally, enjoy more benign conditions. Remember, also, that batsmen have to readjust to the four day game after weeks of 20/20 hitting.

For what it's worth, I tend towards Dave's view that the greater weakness is with the bowlers.

 
 
Idle man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 23 2017, 6:39 PM 

Support for the present batsmen now seems to be interpreted as 'all rosy'. I don't remotely think that the batting has been good enough this season. I would accept a genuinely good kolpak, say Amla if he decided to go down that road. But signings are tricky and our recent ones have been hailed on their announcement but not really delivered. On the other hand we have batsmen of our own who should do better. Most of us were sorry to lose Rhodes yet the management clearly placed him behind those in the team at present plus TKC and Waite. And that's without hurrying Brook into the team again. All is not rosy, but to stick with horticultural terms, the grass always seems greener...,

On balance I'd keep working with our own, unless a real quality alternative becomes available on a reasonably regular basis.

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 23 2017, 8:32 PM 

DM said "pick the best batsman in the world - anyone you want, and you will still not be guaranteed runs"

You will if it is Sangakkarra!! Av of over 100 this season.





    
This message has been edited by StuartRA on Sep 23, 2017 8:37 PM


 
 
Guest
(Login 54off24)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 23 2017, 9:03 PM 

ffs Stu, Sangakarra has the batting paradise of the Oval as his home patch. Boycott's granny in her pinny with a stick of rhubarb would get 1,000 runs there happy.gif

 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 23 2017, 9:04 PM 

It is certainly true that even the best batsmen cannot guarantee 1000 runs but there are one or two (historically Hick and Ramps) that pretty much do it year after year. Sanga falls into that category. Suspect that without international cricket to send him out if kilter Ballance would also be one of those as well I suspect.

 
 
Dewsburian
(Login Dewsburian)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 23 2017, 9:55 PM 

Sangakarra played a season for Warwickshire a few years back. They got relegated.

 
 
spanishnick
(Login Spanishnick)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 23 2017, 10:00 PM 

That was some game.Those last few hours were as tense as just about any i can recall at Headingley, Fantastic. What great sport watching is all about. .This small division is a real dog fight and the margins between success and failure are often small. Seems to me that a lot of good teams-and good players-throughout the league may have underperformed this year. But maybe that happens every year and you just dont notice (or care) when youre doing well. A couple of good points have been made about managing expectations,changing fixture lists,evolving squads (and posters!),pre-season injuries ....
Some strange opinions expressed here too.Cant say that i agree with Alex going to Elland Road or indeed us signing Pat Jennings as a keeper(though he did have bucket hands). I well remember many Man Utd fans spending at least three seasons calling for Ferguson to be sacked at the start of the nineties.Shame they didnt get their way.
Maybe i should stop speed reading these threads.
My thoughts are still with this season . My membership packs, received last week, wont be opened until after next week.
This is a brilliant forum but I do think some people would benefit from going to see the team in the flesh a bit more. Thats not a dig at anyone or their opinions, just that I think its so much easier to enjoy the whole experience when youre there, rather than getting wound up by cricinfo, teletext or other posters.


We won.Enjoy it.It was great.

 
 
 
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