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Alibor
(Login Alibor2)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 22 2017, 2:38 PM 

Somerset may still save game and Hampshire could lose leaving an intriguing last round of matches next week.

 
 
East Coast Type
(Login EastCoastType)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 22 2017, 2:56 PM 

Amazing stuff from Patto and Fisher. Hopefully, that is enough for survival. In my view, complacency about all of the lower order rescues in 2015 and 2016 was a big factor in getting us into the relegation danger in the first place, so it is fitting in a way that such a rescue should pull us out of that trouble today.

My assumption is that this near-death experience will focus minds within the club during the autumn and winter. Surely.

 
 
Dewsburian
(Login Dewsburian)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 22 2017, 2:58 PM 

There are a lot of ifs and buts there. I suppose Essex might have lost at Scarborough had it not been for Mohammed Amir and Ryan ten Doeschate. Were those players papering over the cracks?
The consistency you've seen with Yorkshire over the last four years or so is quite exceptional. The kind of domination that comes with players like Root, Bairstow and Sidebottom isn't common. It's more usual to see players' form fluctuating quite a bit. We need to be realistic and practical.

 
 
Frank Smith
(Login FreshStart1987)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 22 2017, 3:02 PM 

Essex have won 8 games and are unbeaten so I don't think there's any substantial cracks there. Root and bairstow play for England and have done for two seasons and more so please forget about them and sidebottom is retiring.

Essex have dominated this year and beaten everyone so please don't do them a disservice and compare our season to theirs


 
 
Martin
(Login Martin00)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 22 2017, 3:03 PM 

I suppose the point is that if we were to finish second, we wouldn't be saying hooray - we deserve our position in the table and everything in the garden is rosy.

However, what would the third placed team be saying? We are not as good as Yorkshire? Logically, they would not be as good as Yorkshire, but we would know that our performances had been (in the main) poor throughout the season.

I think there are wider questions about the quality of the division, what we expect our players to achieve (if we had been as good as last year for example, I suspect we would have been miles ahead of Essex by now)

 
 
Steve C
(Login stevecowton)
Assistant Moderator

Excellent

September 22 2017, 3:04 PM 

I never stopped supporting our team or believing that we'd win.
A few people posting on here should hang their heads in shame.
Upwards and onwards.

 
 
Guest
(Login BrickyardBoy)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 22 2017, 3:10 PM 

East Coast Type

My feelings precisely. My fear would be that this escape (if such it proves) may have the opposite effect and the ostrich approach, so well established, may simply carry on as before.

Having said that it was a great performance from Patto and Fisher, even against an attack composed of Patel with very little support from anyone else with the marginal exception of Wright.

At lunch time we had a discussion about Patel. We concluded that, although currently about the best around, he really does not compare with the likes of Laker, Illingworth and Titmus. Secondly, this pitch was hardly a "raging turner" and yet the YCCC batsmen were playing as though it were one. We moved to asked what, therefore, is wrong with modern batsmen and concluded that because they never see high quality off spin, and because they have adapted their techniques to the T20 requirements, they are now lacking both the confidence and the ability to play spin in red ball cricket. Our top order played like crease-bound headless chickens. It was only when the none batsmen came to the crease that any thought of attacking Patel materialised.

Finally (and then I will shut up), it really is high-time that YCCC actively encouraged Lyth to ball a significant number of overs. He has repeatedly shown that he has potential. Given the opportunity I am pretty sure that he would improve and become a useful additional weapon, without disrupting the balance of the team; in fact, he would add additional balance.


    
This message has been edited by BrickyardBoy on Sep 22, 2017 3:17 PM


 
 
LUTyke
(Login Y4EV)

Re: Excellent

September 22 2017, 3:10 PM 

Steve the people who need to hang their heads in shame are the top 7 and Andrew Gale, bailed out by a brave Steve Patterson performance. At 96-7 our fans were right to be critical at the time.

 
 
Dewsburian
(Login Dewsburian)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 22 2017, 3:13 PM 

"Root and bairstow play for England and have done for two seasons and more so please forget about them and sidebottom is retiring."
That doesn't relate in any way to the argument that I made. In fact, my point was that you have to treat the seasons in which we had domination through those players as an exceptional period. If you can't do that, you're likely to be expecting something that isn't very likely to happen.
The example I took from the Essex v Yorkshire match had nothing to do with comparing Essex's season to Yorkshire's, but was a critique of the methodology underlying your argument.


 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 22 2017, 3:14 PM 

Not sure how we would have been miles ahead of Essex on last seasons performance. They are about to win their 9th match in 13.


 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 22 2017, 3:20 PM 

Well that was a fun couple of hours watching cricinfo on my iPhone whilst at a lunch with 5 clients!

Four letter acronym of the day reminder.

NLOP

Which will soon be superseded by NLOF.

I confess to thinking we were done for at 11-45 when and Patel blocking up one end whilst seansrs rotated. But Patto came to the party, stood up tall and delivered the goods.

At the time I'd have sent in biffer Brooks to take a risk but perhaps Gale knows his lower order batsmen better than me. But then he should do!

Finishing 2nd or 3rd doesn't hide our problems but we are not alone in this regard.

And yes, whatever you think about t20, it's never as thrilling or nail biting as this format on days like today.

 
 
Irving08
(Login Irving08)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 22 2017, 3:26 PM 

We almost lost against a side with two effective bowlers. Intelligence and a tiring Patel saw us through in the end. I agree with the view that TKC and a spinner should play next game. Lees for Leeds United is a good call; he'd return at least a stone less in weight. Like a few other players, he looks unfit - it shows in our fielding. The team at times looks dishevelled too. But the main challenge going forward is the appointment of a new coach. Promoting a player from the ranks to manage/coach a team rarely succeeds in football (ask LUFC) and I do not see why cricket is any different. It would have to be a person of exceptional charisma or intelligence to make the switch. Mr Gale has not so far demonstrated either attribute. If he wants to coach a first class team he should try his hand elsewhere and we should encourage him to do so. Then having hopefully demonstrated capability he can come back to Yorkshire should here be a vacancy.


    
This message has been edited by Irving08 on Sep 22, 2017 5:21 PM


 
 
Dewsburian
(Login Dewsburian)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 22 2017, 3:35 PM 

On the coaching side, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the coaches who have departed in recent years. During at least one of our championship years, Anthony McGrath was said to be acting as a mentor to the players. I never quite knew what that meant and it would be interesting to know if anyone thinks he had a positive effect on the batsmen. It would obviously be hard to criticize what he has done at Essex.
I see a little of Kevin Sharp at Worcester these days and he seems to be doing a very good job with Worcestershire's young batsmen. He was, of course, Yorkshire's batting coach when the likes of Root, Bairstow, Ballance and Lyth were coming through, but again I'm much too far away to know what actual part he played in their success.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 22 2017, 3:39 PM 

Plus Dawson at Gloucts who was with us briefly

 
 
PaulYorks
(Login PaulYorks2)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 22 2017, 3:40 PM 

It's impossible to know what goes on 'backstage', but I would hope that Gale is given at least another season to prove himself. This year has been difficult for lots of reasons (international call-ups, injuries, new captain, loss of new captain, an aging attack), and there are plenty of grounds for optimism (Coad, Fisher, Brook, signs that Leaning may be recovering his mojo, our approach to T20 and ODI). Whatever else you may think of Gale, he is a highly determined individual and loves YCCC, and I'll be interested to see how he seeks to turn things around. I like how he spoke about Fisher in the BBC report - IMHO this is exactly how a young player should be (re-)introduced to the first team:

"Fish has had a great game. He's had to wait a long time for his chance. He's been chomping at the bit, reminding me that's he fit and ready to go. We just felt over the last few weeks he has hit his straps in the second team, and it was the right time for him to play. We knew he had the batting ability. But to do it in a pressurised situation like that is outstanding."


    
This message has been edited by PaulYorks2 on Sep 22, 2017 3:41 PM


 
 
Frank Smith
(Login FreshStart1987)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 22 2017, 3:46 PM 

Mr Dewsburian you are living in the past, you have to evolve and move on. My criticism is based on the previous two seasons. I know we came 3rd last year but we had started to tire and dwindle throughout that season. I believe that this year we have been very lucky to avoid relegation highlighted by my comments earlier.

Going forward if we don't add or develop our squad through the academy, kolpac, overseas or other counties then we will be in the same mess next year.

You can never replace bairstow but we've got to at least try and get someone close who can contribute his runs. The main problem with losing Johnny is you lose your best batsmen who also kept wicket. Hodd gets about 1/3 of the runs he got.


    
This message has been edited by FreshStart1987 on Sep 22, 2017 3:48 PM


 
 
Guest
(Login Harrogateyorkie)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 22 2017, 3:50 PM 

Well done Pato and Fisher, brilliant. And many thanks to AmbrosešŸ˜‰, although he had no chance with a couple.

A few moaning on this thread would do well to keep quiet until the game is over. It lasts (or is at least scheduled) four days not one session. We have no devine right to win and when you are playing without six of your best players, any side in the history if cricket would not play as well as they possibly could.

 
 
Alibor
(Login Alibor2)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 22 2017, 3:54 PM 

Well put Inving08 and spot on - Lees looks overweight and unfit and has "lost it" as confident top order batsman and fielder. Gale should never have been appointed as coach after relinquishing captaincy/playing role. We need new experienced coach who is not so close to the senior players and who is willing to take tough selection decisions and encourage the younger players more. Above all we need clearer strategical thinking and improved communications. We have the talent but we are not fulfilling potential and we need better continuity/availability with overseas signings and clear plans for using other external recruits more effectively.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 22 2017, 3:56 PM 

David Hopps excellent summary of today on cricinfo suggests he is a regular reader of the WRF.....

I encourage you to read it and see if you can spot yourself in the references!

 
 
Dewsburian
(Login Dewsburian)

Re: Championship | Yorkshire vs Warwickshire at Headingley (Day Four)

September 22 2017, 3:59 PM 

"Mr Dewsburian you are living in the past, you have to evolve and move on." What on earth are you talking about? Again, your argument bears no relation to my stated position.
And you just said we have to forget Bairstow, then you criticize Hodd for not scoring his runs. Moreover, you'd be wise not to assume that relegation has been avoided yet: there are many possibilities.

 
 
 
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