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garywilson
(Login garywilson2)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 26 2017, 4:52 PM 

Hampshire struggling badly .

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 26 2017, 4:54 PM 

We are going to lose this match sometime tomorrow. Please, please, please, no points docked for a slow over rate or we might still get relegated.

Get the spinners on!!!

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 26 2017, 4:56 PM 

'What level of performance would make it a problem?'

We're certainly not there yet. Yorkshire have taken steps, throughout the season.......Handscomb, TKC, Marsh, Braithwaite etc. to look to strengthen the batting. That's 4 off the top of my head, I may have missed someone off, yet people are carrying on as if no attempts have been made to look at this area.

I'd be interested to know which batsmen people are writing off as having no future at Yorkshire?

 
 
Guest
(Login Irving08)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 26 2017, 5:19 PM 

Posters have been trying to fathom our strategy going into this game. The apparent imbalance between batsmen and bowlers has caused consternation. In a previous post I suggested that the team selected was based on an assessment of the likely course of of the game at Taunton. To be more precise the calculation must have been that it would be a low scoring match where batting points would be hard to obtain and also that the game would end in a defeat for one of the two sides. I think this calculation must also have included our game as well. In short, selector(s) took a calculated risk on likely outcomes, which luckily for all concerned seems to have paid off. One could say that they played to our strongest suit.

Nevertheless they cannot be happy with the low score posted by us today. Could they have given us a better chance of posting a respectable total ? To answer that question I would begin with looking at the balance between higher order right and left handed batsmen ? Is it prudent to play three left handed batsmen in the top four against a strong spin attack ? Why should this work against Essex when it manifestly failed against Warwickshire ?

Brathwaite ? - his signing smacked of desperation and his three scores to date and particularly the manner in which his runs have been accumulated surely mean that he will not be invited back.

Finally, leadership: all I would add to a previous opinion expressed on this site is that a self-effacing coach and an equally self-effacing captain does not look like a winning combination. '



 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 26 2017, 5:21 PM 

That's a fair point above re attempts to strengthen the batting but in three of the cases they replaced each other as overseas players rather than any of our misfiring top order.

Me stability with the overseas pro or long term kolpak might mean others are more settled too and perform better knowing their role in the team. In some cases others get shuffled around, play or don't play depending on whether the overseas guy is a keeper and generally fit in whilst the overseas pro picks his spot in the order

 
 
Jay
(Login overman8)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 26 2017, 5:33 PM 

In reply to EYT regarding the future of our players, I would suggest Leaning (perhaps kept for the shorter format) Lees and Hodd. I can almost the wrath of herd!

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 26 2017, 5:34 PM 

I think the 2nd and 3rd overseas signings, plus TKC playing CC (when originally he wasn't going to this season) show that there is acceptance of a problem rather than not being one..

I'm not saying we should have a mass cull but there is no competition for places. Lees having a bad run has no fear for his place because there's no back up for example.


 
 
Otley
(Login Otley)

Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day 2)

September 26 2017, 5:41 PM 

I thought it was common knowledge that Stephen Davies would only move to a Southern club last year. Until this became obvious, I was saying we should sign him but it seems that being up here we really were "not on his radar" - dare I say "literally" in almost it's correct sense. Similarly, much as we may have wanted to sign Borthwick last year, he was never going to sign for Yorkshie under any circumstances.

For what it's worth, I would stick with Hodd until there is someone clearly better available. Also with batsmen, any potential signing must have a proven track record (like Stoneman) rather than a one season wonder like Jennings who had been dropped by Durham this time 2 years ago. Shia Hope would be my preferred overseas.

 
 
Martin
(Login Martin00)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 26 2017, 5:52 PM 

"Finally, leadership: all I would add to a previous opinion expressed on this site is that a self-effacing coach and an equally self-effacing captain does not look like a winning combination."

"The captain was typically self-effacing when questioned about the team's successes, giving credit to the other players. " Is given online as an example of that phrase's usage. Seems a fair quality to have. Gale certainly had it as captain, and I think Ballance does as well. Not sure it is a bad thing

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 26 2017, 5:55 PM 

Off for bad light, thank goodness.

Rain for two days now, or we will be chasing well over 450 in the 4th innings. Start with two spinners tomorrow to make sure we get no points deduction for a slow over rate, and we stop up even with a loss.

 
 
garywilson
(Login garywilson2)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 26 2017, 5:57 PM 

Sorry , but i just can't see Hope making runs on a cold April day on an English wicket .

 
 
Guest
(Login Irving08)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 26 2017, 6:13 PM 

But surely Martin, one or the other, has to have a certain presence, particularly in respect of more established players. I don't think leadership in competitive sport, any more than in politics, is really the place for 'the quiet man'. Let me make a comparison: Mike Brearley was modest to the point of self-effacement about his contribution to England's successes in late '70s and early '80's. But he certainly had a presence based, in his case, on his mastery of the art of captaincy. In my view, a player like Tim Bresnan, for example, needs a strong leader, just as Botham did, to get the best out of him.

 
 
Dewsburian
(Login Dewsburian)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 26 2017, 6:37 PM 

Why would anyone think that being noisy and being strong are the same thing? Isn't the world full of people that show the opposite to be true?


    
This message has been edited by Dewsburian on Sep 26, 2017 6:37 PM


 
 
Alibor
(Login Alibor2)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 26 2017, 6:39 PM 

It would be our biggest blunder of all time if we secured enough points to keep our place in the top division, only to bowl our overs so slowly in this innings to be docked points and be relegated - even the lousiest coach and captain could not be so incompetent. Good to see Fisher bowling economically, despite not being given chance to start with the new ball and then only getting 7 overs. Not sure why everyone is debating the wicketkeeper rather than a woefully weak top order batting or our strange team selections.

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 26 2017, 6:58 PM 

Agree Alibor - the keeper slot is the least of our problems.

The mis-functioning top 5 is the main problem, the lack of a decent spinner for 1/2 of the season when Rashid is missing is the second most important area to address, then we can start on sorting the bowling out, as to which two from Patto, Bresnan, Brooks, Plunkett & Willey play alongside Fisher & Coad. After that we then need to sort out getting a decent overseas player, preferably one who is here all summer, who actually contributes something to our performances (unlike this year).

 
 
LUTyke
(Login Y4EV)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day 2)

September 26 2017, 7:19 PM 

Personally I think we do need a proper wicketkeeper-batsman. Hodd is a very good keeper but can't bat well in the top 6, at least TKC and Leaning have age on their side but Hodd does not and will need replacing soon anyway. Don't think we need a spinner as I would like us to trust Carver to deputise Rashid in the CC. Think we need an opening batsman and an opening bowler to replace Siddy. None of the other bowlers besides Coad are consistent enough for me to be confident they'll form a decent attack (though I like the look of Fisher and Waite),

Lyth
New
TKC
Ballance(c)
New(wk)
Leaning
Willey
Rashid
New
Plunkett
Coad

Or:
Lyth
New
Lees
TKC
New(wk)
Leaning
Bresnan
New
Fisher
Coad
Carver

 
 

Guest
(Login dpressed)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 26 2017, 7:53 PM 

People keep saying Gale must go. Yet the batting problem has been there for the last 3 seasons. We won in 2015 because England didn't pick Bairstow, last season Bresnan and the tail got us far enough to still be in with a chance of winning the title. This season we were pulled out of the mire by Ballance until he got picked for England.

I have to wonder if part of Gillespie's reasons for leaving was that he realised the writing was on the wall.

What Yorkshire need aren't more batsmen but a coach who can get the talent out of the ones we have. To lose one batman to bad form isn't good, to lose 2 or 3 is worrying, to lose them all shows that something is badly wrong.

 
 
Guest
(Login Irving08)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 26 2017, 8:20 PM 

Dewsburian, Why would they indeed ? There is nothing in my postings to suggest otherwise. But if you do not wish to engage with the topic, fair enough. I am new to the site, as I am to Yorkshire membership, and merely convey impressions I have formed over the past three years of watching Yorkshire in all competitions. However I do have some experience of leadership in a non-sporting arena and this leads me to the view I have expressed.

 
 
Dewsburian
(Login Dewsburian)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 26 2017, 8:35 PM 

"Dewsburian... if you do not wish to engage with the topic, fair enough."
I did engage with the topic, I simply disagreed with you. Some of the best leaders I have known on the cricket field have been quiet people, even quite shy and retiring ones. It is a sphere where you can lead by example and often exuding a sense of calm is more important than being demonstrative.

Could I just add that it seems very odd to single out Tim Bresnan as someone who needs "a strong leader"? As his performance at Lord's showed last year, he is very much a player who needs no extra motivation to do his best for the county. While he has obviously been struggling a bit this season, my guess is that various forms of fatigue are more likely to blame than anything else. Ian Botham was in his mid-twenties when Brearley captained him and sometimes needed reining in. Bresnan is 32 and it's hard to see the same sort of problem.


    
This message has been edited by Dewsburian on Sep 26, 2017 8:52 PM


 
 
littleoldme
(Login littleoldme.)

Question Gale

September 26 2017, 8:50 PM 

Look at the team picked for this last match? Against the best team this year and this is what Gale comes up with..5 batters and 7 tail-enders. Do we all want cheap fix Gale to continue next year as 1st team coach? We are going to lose this one by a very long way.
A Buchan

 
 
 
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