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Frank Smith
(Login FreshStart1987)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 26 2017, 9:42 PM 

i thought after the Middlesex and Surrey performances we were moving in the right direction but these past two games have shown how far the mighty have fallen.

Yes 2 years ago we were a very good side but the decline has been accelerating this year at an alarming rate. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but they would of been far better off not signing brathwaite and sticking TKC at the top of the order.

I do think the rest of this match will have an impact on gales future. For his sake the players need to go down fighting because we can't have a 4th humiliating defeat of the season.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 26 2017, 9:59 PM 

We won our last game. How is that a sign of how the mighty have fallen?

 
 
Alibor
(Login Alibor2)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 26 2017, 10:12 PM 

Picking up on the topic of spinners, I believe there is a fundamental problem which needs to be addressed in our team philosophy.
When I first started watching my beloved county, my father told me about the incredible Hadley Verity and I was privileged to see some very great spin bowlers like our own Johnny Wardle, Ray Illingworth, Don Wilson or England bowlers like Laker, Lock and Underwood. Of course, there have been many wonderful international spin bowlers from the past and in recent and current times.
However, great spin bowlers need to treated properly by their team management and their captains. In my opinion,Yorkshire have failed to do that in recent years because seamers have been given priority and spin bowlers used as afterthoughts or as interval bowlers. We have seen the value of taking pace off the ball in one day cricket but why is is not equally or more important in CC?
When Rashid has been available, he has not been bowled as a potential wicket taker but given the ball only when seamers are unable to make breakthroughs. In matches at Scarborough which I have watched over the last 5 years, we have NOT used our spin bowling resources well. We have had several promising spinners who have left the county without really being given enough opportunity over the last 10 years and likes of Rafiq and Carver are given limited chances in first class matches to develop skills.
There is no point talking about recruiting another spin bowler unless the management, coach and captain change our approach.

 
 
littleoldme
(Login littleoldme.)

5th drubbing

September 26 2017, 10:48 PM 

It will be our 5th drubbing of the season. Lost to Hants (by 4 wckts), Middlesex ( by an innings and 64), Somerset (by about 180), Essex ( by 8 wckts) and tomorrow by about 230. The batting really has let us down in all of these games. Just 24 batting points won from 14 games, about 1.7 batting points per game. Woeful. Will we sign any new batsman over the winter?
A Buchan

 
 

Guest
(Login dpressed)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 26 2017, 10:50 PM 

I disagree with the previous poster about spinners. If they were so good then where are they now? The last spinner to leave Yorkshire and have a decent career elsewhere was James Middlebrook who was passed by Richard Dawson (who played for Gloucestershire but has been far more successful as a coach)

 
 
JG
(Login _JG_)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 26 2017, 11:22 PM 

I have to agree with the comments about the batting: personally I think we need to sign two batsmen over the winter.

I don't think there can be any argument that our top order batsmen have not scored enough runs in the past two seasons. Last year cameo appearances from Bairstow and Root and runs down the order from Bresnan and Plunkett papered over the cracks; this year they have been fully exposed. With the usual caveats that averages can't tell the whole story- although they should be fairly instructive over a period of time as long as two whole seasons- of the players who have played regularly, only Ballance has an average I would deem good enough (49), and we can't be sure what his availability will be like next season.

Lyth and Lees each average just over 34 since the start of last season: not good enough from either of them, though interesting to note that Lees has been no worse than Lyth despite getting a good bit more stick on here (this may be due to the huge disparity in their limited overs performances in this period).

Leaning has averaged under 26 in this period, so although he continues to show glimpses (Old Trafford, Scarborough) I would suggest he needs to start to develop some consistency before his credit runs out. Interestingly Hodd's average is almost identical to Leaning's; his ceiling of performance is clearly lower than the 3 Ls but he's actually more reliable than many of our batsmen.

Not helping matters is the fact that our various overseas players have not contributed consistently; Brathwaite (17), Handscomb (34) were particularly poor, while Marsh (112) and Lehmann (55) were only available for the odd game.

We've already recruited Kohler-Cadmore, but that only replaces Gale in my opinion. It's surely too early to expect too much of Brook, who would be even younger than Root in his first season with the first team. With the uncertainty over Ballance's availability, I would argue we only have two semi-reliable first team batsmen on the staff in Lyth and Lees. If I was in Moxon and Gale's shoes, I would be looking to recruit an overseas/ Kolpak top order batsman who would be available for the whole season (easier said that done, perhaps...) as well as being in the market for a second batsmen- if they can keep that's a bonus but not a necessity.


 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 27 2017, 7:12 AM 

Hodd now being castigated as not good enough to bat in the top 6. He wouldn't have to if we selected a balanced team and I'm not sure many others in our top 6 are good enough to do so either.

Maybe if we drop Hodd but keep Lyth Leaning Bratthwaite Lees and TKC one of them could keep wicket as well....

 
 
JG
(Login _JG_)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 27 2017, 8:11 AM 

I agree with the above: our top order failings are the real issue, we shouldn't be asking Hodd to make up for this by scoring the runs of a batsman. We've always know what we were getting with Hodd: a tidy keeper who can score some useful runs down the order; what has changed is the lack of runs from the top 6, not Hodd's contribution.

 
 
Lew
(Login Lewis_116)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 27 2017, 8:27 AM 

I agree with a lot of what JG has said. I also agree that Hodd is a bit of a scapegoat for the top order failings.

The reality is that these days you have a keeper good enough to bat in the top 6. Unless, you have a 5th bowler who bats in the top 6.

The problem we have is that Lyth and Lees are proven. We need to help coach them back to form but must stick with them. I prefer Lees at 3 and suggested previously it may be a smart move.

We really need to find an overseas player available for most of the season. I would be happy with Marsh

Do we then start Brook or TKC as opener to address the top order issues and move Lyth to 3/4 (I remember an article where he said his preferred position for 3/4). He has a tendency to nick outside off which is natural for a leftie, especially with the new ball.

This could free up TKC who could potentially be a Trescothick type aggressive option at the top of the order.

I have already mentioned a batting keeper would be my second signing.

Leaning as JG has explained needs a solid run in the seconds. He is still young and will come back a better player.

TKC, Marsh, Lees, Lyth, Ballance C, WK

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 27 2017, 8:34 AM 

From todays YP

".....Only Lyth, Ballance and Hodd reached double figures as Yorkshire fell two runs short of their previous lowest completed first innings total this season – 113 against Essex at Scarborough.

Indeed, Yorkshire’s three lowest completed Championship scores this summer have all come against Essex, who also ejected them for 150 in the second innings at North Marine Road......"


Hopefully, we don`t make it the "4 lowest scores this season" when we eventually bat in our second innings, but I am not holding my breath.



 
 
Guest
(Login Irving08)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 27 2017, 11:36 AM 

Thank you Dewsburian for your calm rebuttals. I agree with you on the virtue of calmness but one does not want a captain to appear or become becalmed. There always has to be an active mind in play. In respect of TB of course you are right. It had not occurred to me that tiredness could be the cause of his underperformance this season. In fact I had him in mind for the captaincy of the four day side at the end of last season. He made a favourable impression on me with the bowling changes in some of the T20 games I saw.

 
 
Dewsburian
(Login Dewsburian)

Re: Championship | Essex vs Yorkshire at Chelmsford (Day Two)

September 27 2017, 11:04 PM 

I'm sure we shall have plenty of interesting discussions about the leadership question, though sadly any such debates on the forum at the moment are likely to get a bit chaotic given the stormy emotions swirling about. My apologies if I didn't look at all your earlier comments, but it's difficult to review these things with the way the forum is set up at the moment. I think it used to be possible to view comments "by contributor", but, if I remember right, that was when the forum was on the Yorkshire club site.

I was at New Road today watching Worcestershire and Durham. There was a TV in the "View Stand" and I had a chance to observe Eoin Morgan when the West Indies batsmen were making hay. He seems remarkably unflappable and, though he definitely comes over as a very "quiet" man, he has clearly had a vision for the England limited overs teams and the players have bought into it and done well for him. I wonder if the key factor isn't trust, in the sense that the players (who are, after all, professionals of a very high level) have had a pattern set out for them which involves taking risks and they know they won't be blamed personally if the risks don't come off. I've enjoyed playing under some very steely individuals as captain and also a few rather diffident personalities, but the thing I always valued was a clear vision and a plan. I used to have a skipper who, when asked what were the orders, would always say "Get a shedload of runs and don't get out". It was OK as jokes go, but the team never went anywhere under his leadership.

 
 
 
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