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Guest
(Login Blackpooltyke)

Re: Ashes squad

September 27 2017, 4:51 PM 

well obviously you have already used your reviews

if someone attacked him with a glass/bottle then they would also have been arrested.

there is something else he could have done....legged it....thats what i would have done


    
This message has been edited by Blackpooltyke on Sep 27, 2017 4:54 PM


 
 
54 off 24
(Login 54off24)

Re: Ashes squad

September 27 2017, 5:44 PM 

Peter can I ask a simple question?

In another post you said it takes 2 to cause a fight?

I presume your implication is that both "participants" are equally culpable?

As in, Stokes was about to get glassed / bottled and is therefore culpable for defending himself before the assault on him?

Joe Root was involved in a fracas with David Warner, ergo he was culpable that a fight took place (as it takes 2 to cause a fight), ergo he should be nowhere near the England team and captaincy?

So who should be England captain, you've obviously ruled out the current vice-captain?

 
 
Guest
(Login Blackpooltyke)

Re: Ashes squad

September 27 2017, 7:05 PM 

yes i said it takes 2 to fight.....if someone was looking for a fight....stokes has several options, he could buy his aggressor a pint....report the trouble to the door supervisor....or remove himself from the situation, all of which would have avoided trouble, he chose to fight instead...his bad.

Had he been defending himself from a bottle attack, why wasn't his opponent also arrested?

As for Root, I was unaware of the incident you mention, please enlighten me.

as for who should be vice captain now....well what about Moeen?

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: Ashes squad

September 27 2017, 8:04 PM 

So, Ben Stokes is in the street and someone is trying to glass him and you think he should've said, "steady on old chap don't do that let me go back into the club and buy you a pint?"

 
 
Idle man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: Ashes squad

September 27 2017, 8:20 PM 

There are two issues here. Has Stokes committed a criminal offence? If he was physically threatened quite possibly not, and he should not be prosecuted or at least found not guilty. On the other hand, has he behaved in a manner which his position, and the considerable salary, make it reasonable to expect of him. It would be legitimate to say that if he has got in a night club brawl at two in the morning, and if he has involved another, less established player, the answer is no.

 
 
54 off 24
(Login 54off24)

Re: Ashes squad

September 27 2017, 9:04 PM 

Peter, you've never heard of the Warner / Root episode, 2013 Ashes I believe.

Young Joe was taunting Warner with an Aussie coloured wig, i.e. Joe was the instigator of the fracas.

Telegraph story here -http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/australia/10114925/David-Warner-dropped-by-Australia-after-punching-Englands-Joe-Root-following-row-over-fake-beard.html

As "it takes 2", there is obviously no defense for Joe's actions?

 
 
Guest
(Login Blackpooltyke)

Re: Ashes squad

September 27 2017, 10:09 PM 

seems to me that joe behaved in an exempolory manner there.

he was punched by an australian player over a misunderstanding, he did not retalliate but immediately left the scene and returned to his hotel.

the australian team then took action against the aggressor and dropped him from their team and he faced a disciplinary hearing.

he was not arrested and not charged.

now a question for you, were the australian's right to ban him and discipline him, if so why do you think england should not do the same with Stokes. He is bound to face a lot worse in australia and clearly cannot be trusted to restrain himself when provoked, unlike root who was not only provoked but was actually assaulted....what would Stokes do if that incident happened to him?

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: Ashes squad

September 27 2017, 10:20 PM 

Pics in tomorrows paper look like shades of Muhammad Ali stood over Sonny Liston!

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: Ashes squad

September 27 2017, 10:58 PM 

Love Stokes as a Cricketer but after seeing the footage id be very surprised if he tours. Initially appears to defend Hales from man with bottle. After that it looks terrible for Stokes. The other guys were retreating at the end when Stokes lands the knockout blow.

 
 
JG
(Login _JG_)

Re: Ashes squad

September 27 2017, 10:59 PM 

Apologies for linking to this awful rag, but the video of this incident does not look good. There is no way that is self-defence.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4563420/england-cricket-ace-ben-stokes-nightclub-brawl-video/

 
 
54 off 24
(Login 54off24)

Re: Ashes squad

September 28 2017, 7:31 AM 

Peter I see you have regressed to once again using revisionism.

You said "it takes 2"

Joe Root was involved

Therefore he should have been punished for being involved

Obviously, in your logic, what he should have done as the fist was flying towards his face was said "come on David, it was only a bit of banter, let me buy you a pint".

Just as Stokes should have said the same to the guy who (from a very poor quality video) seems to be threatening Hales with a bottle. Was he supposed to say that before or after Hales had his face cut open by the way?

[edit] By the way I'm not condoning violence for the sake of it, but you have to be able to defend yourself in a threatening situation.


    
This message has been edited by 54off24 on Sep 28, 2017 7:42 AM


 
 
YorkTyke
(Login YorkTyke)

Re: Ashes Squad

September 28 2017, 9:41 AM 

54 off 24 I don't know how you can assert that Joe Root was in the wrong in the incident with Warner. The Telegraph article states quite clearly that Root was poking fun at himself not Warner who badly misread the situation and over reacted.

To equate Joe's behaviour with that of Stokes' is patently ridiculous.

 
 
PaulYorks
(Login PaulYorks2)

Re: Ashes squad

September 28 2017, 9:50 AM 

There's no way Stokes can tour now, assuming the guy in the video is him. Not even up for debate. He'll be lucky to escape prison, although as a wealthy sports star he'll no doubt get off relatively lightly.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: Ashes squad

September 28 2017, 9:53 AM 

Very much looks like the bloke was threatening Stokes and Hales with a bottle, self defence will be the argument.

 
 
PaulYorks
(Login PaulYorks2)

Re: Ashes squad

September 28 2017, 9:56 AM 

I'm sure - but that argument will only take you so far. The end of the video, where the bloke was backing off and Stokes advanced towards him and decked him, is completely indefensible.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: Ashes squad

September 28 2017, 9:57 AM 

Well, in Stokes' position I'm certainly not going to turn away and risk a bottle to the back of the head.

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: Ashes squad

September 28 2017, 10:00 AM 

The bottle was gone early doors. Hales obviously didn't believe there was still a threat as he tried to stop him. Could have walked backwards away from the situation. I'm fine with the most of the video but the last 15 seconds or so doesn't look good.

 
 
Guest
(Login Blackpooltyke)

Re: Ashes squad

September 28 2017, 10:49 AM 

Obviously, in your logic, what he should have done as the fist was flying towards his face was said "come on David, it was only a bit of banter, let me buy you a pint".

look, you are twisting my words, that was one of 3 options open to joe, the other two were to alert the staff or remove himself from the trouble, he chose the latter, even though he had already been punched. meaning that joe was not involved in a fight, he was assaulted after a misunderstanding....and rather than retalliate and put his career on the line he immediately removed himself from the situation....that is why he is captain now. Well done Joe!

Stokes on the other hand hit someone so hard, that he broke his hand. Nobody else threw punches or hit anybody with bottles or the like otherwise there would have been more arrests....just stokes.....therefore he should never be allowed to represent his country again. This is my view, not everybody's, just mine, and it will stay my view.....violent conduct can never be condoned.

If he was a police officer he would lose his job, if he was a cabinet minister he would lose his job, if he was an mp he would be deselected. #he should at the very least serve a 1 year suspension from all cricket and 3 years from international cricket. Thats the only way to teach these fisticuffs that they have to behave themselves.

He is a high profile figure and figures that because of that he can do as he pleases. He cannot.

 
 
Ibby3
(Login ibby3)

Re: Ashes squad

September 28 2017, 11:07 AM 

I don't condone what Stokes has done at all but to say he shouldn't go on a on ashes tour or play international cricket for 3 years is over the top for me. If we are honest it is something that happens up and down the country every Friday and Saturday night, but normal people don't lose jobs for it.

My main concern would be what he is doing there at that time of night. He is an easy recognisable target, he needs educating rather than sacking. If the ECB sacked him, all he would do, would travel the world earning millions as a 20/20 star.

From what Iv seen of it, the other lads are the aggressors with the bottle, Stokes defends his mate, red mist transcends, and he goes down the route of 'you started it and I'm finishing it.'

 
 
PaulYorks
(Login PaulYorks2)

Re: Ashes squad

September 28 2017, 11:26 AM 

I'm somewhere in between. I don't think he should go on the Ashes tour (unfortunately, because it would generate huge media interest in test cricket), but a 3-year ban seems excessive. Agree in general terms with the 'education not sacking' sentiment.

Yes, this sort of thing goes on all the time, but in fact 'normal people' do occasionally lose their jobs over it. And as Peter pointed out, he is not a 'normal person' and should expect to be held to different standards. The Joe Root example was an excellent illustration of how to handle a situation that could have got out of hand.

 
 
 
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