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Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 28 2017, 9:34 AM 

An overall of the playing staff?

I've seen club ties, replica shirts, caps in the club shop but not sure that would be a best seller!! wink.gif

 
 
PaulYorks
(Login PaulYorks2)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 28 2017, 9:39 AM 

Thanks Reg, really interesting insight.

I guess Dizzy made it look deceptively easy. He spoke plainly, to the point of banality, and there never seemed to be any particular subtlety or deep strategic thinking behind his approach to the game. But actually that was his strength: time and again we heard players say: "he keeps it simple". And he appeared completely straightforward, open and honourable in everything he did. Now that he's gone, it suddenly looks like a much harder job.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 28 2017, 9:48 AM 

We need to talk about the elephant in the room when it comes to Gillespie..................white ball cricket. It was generally rubbish under him, why?

 
 
PaulYorks
(Login PaulYorks2)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 28 2017, 10:01 AM 

Good question EYT. Maybe he kept it too simple! I always remember that interview with Fisher where he confessed that no-one had practised bowling yorkers ahead of a big T20 game...

 
 
ed the fed
(Login edthefed)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 28 2017, 10:11 AM 

Moxon needs to go.....other than the Gillespie era what exactly has he achieved, and if its correct that he recommended Gale because he "could work with him" then that is another reason. Moxon has had it too comfortable for too many years. Coach and Director of Cricket should be able to have mature impassioned debates.

The failure of overseas signing after overseas signing, many of whom are not available for all are part of the season must in part lie at Moxon and Gales door. The whole overseas signing policy needs revisiting. Surely its better to have a Kolpack or two ALL season rather than panic signing overseas players.

Gale and Pyrah must go ...both were at best average county players who simply do not have the technical or people skills to cope at the required standard.

We need to bring in an experienced head coach who can also manage people and not lose the dressing room. Ideally somebody who has also done things at the highest level.

We also need a decent bowling coach who has played at the highest level and who can pass things on....Siddy perhaps or even Bresnan ?

We need a batting coach, again someone experienced and with credibility

We need a captain who will be available all season, someone who can lead on the field, and who can manage people.

Its not going to be easy or cheap, but the club need to think ...dont think about how much it will cost, think about how much it will save in the long term

 
 
ed the fed
(Login edthefed)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 28 2017, 10:11 AM 

Moxon needs to go.....other than the Gillespie era what exactly has he achieved, and if its correct that he recommended Gale because he "could work with him" then that is another reason. Moxon has had it too comfortable for too many years. Coach and Director of Cricket should be able to have mature impassioned debates.

The failure of overseas signing after overseas signing, many of whom are not available for all are part of the season must in part lie at Moxon and Gales door. The whole overseas signing policy needs revisiting. Surely its better to have a Kolpack or two ALL season rather than panic signing overseas players.

Gale and Pyrah must go ...both were at best average county players who simply do not have the technical or people skills to cope at the required standard.

We need to bring in an experienced head coach who can also manage people and not lose the dressing room. Ideally somebody who has also done things at the highest level.

We also need a decent bowling coach who has played at the highest level and who can pass things on....Siddy perhaps or even Bresnan ?

We need a batting coach, again someone experienced and with credibility

We need a captain who will be available all season, someone who can lead on the field, and who can manage people.

Its not going to be easy or cheap, but the club need to think ...dont think about how much it will cost, think about how much it will save in the long term

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 28 2017, 10:24 AM 

You really don't need all these coaches who've played at the highest level. Kevin Sharpe, Steve Oldham, Paul Farbrace were three outstanding coaches for Yorkshire who've never been near the top level. You just need the right coaches.

Am also not sure how paying top whack for coaches, Kolpaks etc. will save you money in the long term either? After 3 seasons a £100k+ a year Kolpak will be gone and need replacing. A Coad/Fisher will be a lot cheaper and be around a lot longer.

 
 
Jay
(Login overman8)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 28 2017, 12:53 PM 

Well done Kevin for initiating this, I did suggest earlier on the player poll thread whether they could also do a poll regarding the coach/coaches. It's a big question which really needs addressing, as some of the performances this season have been dire bordering on shameful. I am aware before anyone highlights that no one has died and it's merely a game, but this can't quite the quell the passion that I feel about this great club. As Reg mentioned earlier, there is clearly something wrong with the club and whether this relates to dynamics in the dressing room, we can only assume. However, the collective psychology doesn't seem great, reflected in many of the individual performances and in the manner of those embarrassing defeats. This can reflect in body language, communication between players, wickets that have seemingly been surrendered and some players regressing in their game.

The issues regarding our batting frailties were there during Gillespie's tenure, particularly towards the latter end. Gillespie is a shrewd man and perhaps knew at that point, that he had taken the side as far as it could go and was clearly a good time for him to move on. In some ways Gale has been unfortunate in inheriting these issues, as well as being a successful captain, Gale's own form was also in gradual decline prior to being appointed. I expressed at the time that it felt to be an absurd appointment and Gale should never have been assimilated straight into such a key role. This transition should been considered over a period time and clearly this 'gamble' has not paid off. I feel that there's some entrenched issues at the club and seriously doubt whether Gale and Pyrah are capable of turning this around. Those that made such appointments are also accountable and need to rectify this next season, as ultimately it's about results.

 
 
Martin
(Login Martin00)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 28 2017, 1:39 PM 

Some interesting and (as you might expect) contradictory points of view in this thread. Some of us are closer to the dressing room than others. In the end, I suppose the club chief exec and chairman are the ones who have to make decisions about what we do for next year (coaching staff wise), and they must know what is going on behind closed doors, and players presumably speak to them.

Seems to me that the sum total of our observations would have us sack the whole of the coaching staff, get rid of maybe half a dozen players, sign maybe half a dozen players etc. I suspect that will not happen nor should it. But I do think that some fresh blood at the coaching level (and maybe a senior player from another club - Mitchell would actually be very good I think), is what is needed. If that means Gale goes but Pyrah stays, or Ballance steps down but someone takes over, or if there is one player who is seen to be "difficult" and would be better at another club, then fine, but I suspect that throwing everything up in the air is not sensible.

I hold my hand up -I did think that Gale COULD have been a good appointment. His captaincy experience, his coaching experience in a commercial environment, the fact that the players respected (if not liked) him. I think what was attempted was to replicate the three pronged leadership under JG with Gale continuing as the passionate one and Ballance replacing the more reflective JG. So the same personality mix but in different roles. It clearly hasn't worked.

I think we have to remember that international or high quality players can make good coaches but not all good coaches were international or high quality players. In fact they are the exception rather than the rule. I suspect we would now struggle to get a big name experienced coach. What we really want to find is another JG. Someone who is under the radar because they aren't an experienced coach, but are made of the right stuff - easier said than done!

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 28 2017, 2:01 PM 

Sidebottom....

 
 
Dewsburian
(Login Dewsburian)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 28 2017, 2:06 PM 

I didn't hear anyone at New Road yesterday suggesting that Mitchell was going anywhere fast. I suspect he'll want to put to bed the feeling that he wasn't good enough for Division 1 last time, but he'll almost certainly want to do that at Worcester. On the other hand, Worcestershire members are acutely conscious of the fact that Joe Clarke's contract is up at the end of next season. Some of them see staying up as an essential part of retaining his services.
The oddest rumour I heard yesterday was that Andy Hodd was retiring at the end of the season. This came from a well-connected Gloucestershire member, but seemed to have no source.

 
 
Martin
(Login Martin00)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 28 2017, 2:29 PM 

Interesting from Brooks. Sidebottom is our best bowling coach (better than JG)

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/sport/15554789.Brooks_backs_Sidebottom_for_Yorkshire_coaching_role/

 
 
Pyrahtechnics
(Login Pyrahtechnics)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 28 2017, 4:21 PM 

He was dropped.

'On Yorkshire's selection for this match, Gale said: "A spinner has to play and Brez hasn't performed to the best of his abilrsity this year. He knows that. Matthew Fisher came in last week and looked the part with both bat and ball'.

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/sport/cricket/yorkshire/15557107.STUMPS__Yorkshire_secure_Division_One_safety/

Interesting that the Yorkshire think tank decided to drop Bresnan who was under-performing, which is fair enough.

But why wasn't a like for like replacement being considered, particularly Will Rhodes? If spin was going to be part of the game plan, there was no need for Yorkshire to go with four frontline seamers and Karl Carver certainly would have bowled more often and before the 58th over of the 1st innings.

Will Rhodes batting at six, with Hodd at seven would have given the top 5 batsmen reassurance in the event of losing a few wickets early doors whilst maintaining a relatively healthy looking bowling attack. Instead the top 5 batsmen felt like rabbits caught in headlights, knowing that one of them faced the prospect of having to farm the strike at five wickets down, hence why Yorkshire batted like they did in this match.

Quite simply this is poor game management by the think-tank, who remained stubborn by freezing out an outbound player to an already relegated Warwickshire team where his services could have made a difference.


    
This message has been edited by Pyrahtechnics on Sep 28, 2017 4:22 PM


 
 
Idle man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 28 2017, 5:50 PM 

Sorry, are you suggesting Rhodes should have played instead of Bresnan, but no room for Carver, or that another seamer should have dropped out too?

I'd have picked Bresnan ahead of Rhodes.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Rhodes

September 28 2017, 6:08 PM 

I'd forgotten what a great player he was and how valuable his mountain of runs and frighteningly fast bowling had been!

We did finish fourth, I know it was only a couple of points but that's what it says in the record book.

I would hope that Gale has been given a couple of seasons and that he has learned something from this season and becomes a better coach moving on.

 
 
ed the fed
(Login edthefed)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 28 2017, 6:44 PM 

Dont think about how much it will cost, think about how much it will save...

Pay a good Kolpack who keeps in the first division, contributing in one day matches as well....attendances stay the same, or increase, prize money may increase, YCCC can attract top names

Dont pay a good Kolpack, save on wages, but team continues to perform badly, gets relegated, attendances fall, sponsorship falls, prize money falls, influence of YCCC falls, potential loss of test matches as club cannot afford to improve ground nor keep up on the loan payments, players leave as per Durham....need i go on ?

 
 
54 off 24
(Login 54off24)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 28 2017, 6:44 PM 

To answer the original question, we have just finished in the top half of league one. We're not Chelsea FC so why would we sack the coach.

Last year's champions have just been relegated, time for a little perspective from a hugely negative and critical YCC cricket forum!

 
 
Guest
(Login Fozzie1973)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 28 2017, 6:48 PM 

We stayed up by 2 points, hardly see been in top half of this league any sort of achievement, do you seriously have faith in Gale to turn this mess around

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Coaching success cannot be guaranteed

September 28 2017, 7:39 PM 

People talk about the need to bring in an experienced coach, but who is guaranteed to succeed!

I remember Middlesex making a big deal of the T20 this year, they imported an experienced coach, Daniel Vettori, who also coaches the Brisbane Heat in the BBL and RCB in the IPL.

With Brendan Mccullum, Tim Southee, Eoin Morgan and others, you could argue they had a stronger team than we did, but they got nowhere near qualifying for finals day.

If it was possible to guarantee success I'd say go for it.


 
 
sid
(Login sid-don)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 28 2017, 9:28 PM 

I've seen a lot of 1st and 2nd team cricket this season. We've looked unhappy. Every (?) player has under performed. We need new ideas and NOT new players.

Probably time for AG and RP to leave. I've no realistic suggestions about replacements.

 
 
 
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