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Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 27 2017 at 6:29 PM
Kevin Owens  (Login kevinowens)

 
It's the end of a disappointing season now. Your thoughts on what we do for next season and beyond?

 
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LUTyke
(Login Y4EV)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 27 2017, 6:36 PM 

Would like to see a poll on Gale, how many members on this board want to give him more time and how many want a change. Personally think he needs to go, there are too many rumours that he's nothing more than a mate to the squad. We need a coach who can look at the situation with no sentiment and then address the issues.

 
 
Alibor
(Login Alibor2)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 27 2017, 6:47 PM 

Would be interested to see job specification for "coach" job, qualifications and skills required and personal spec. of current coach.

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 27 2017, 6:55 PM 


'A quote from Gale yesterday. "When it's Difficult you've got to grind it out, I question if they're willing to grind it out". Send em to the club psychologist Galey'

Quoting your post from the other thread. This and the psychologist reference to me should be kept behind closed doors. Does appear to be someone who has lost the dressing room.


 
 
JG
(Login _JG_)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 27 2017, 7:35 PM 

When Gale was appointed, personally I was slightly underwhelmed given his lack of experience in this kind of role. However I recognised his contribution as a strong and successful captain, and not being party to the dressing room and managerial dynamics I was happy to defer to those that were and for him to be given a chance. Unfortunately after the evidence of a season, I'm struggling to come to any conclusion other than it's not working out.

Performances, plainly, have worsened across all formats. We have suffered some real thrashings in the Championship- 370 runs, 8 wickets, 200 runs, an innings- and have clung on to our division one status only thanks to a couple of freak individual performances sneaking us home in close matches. In the T20, with arguably the strongest squad in the country including 4 current and 3 former internationals available for the whole tournament, we failed to make it out of the group stages, losing every close game we played and generally looking clueless when our only strategy of 'bat first and hope Lyth or Willey comes off' failed. The 50 over was better with runs from Bairstow and Root helping, but we again fell meekly as soon as a knockout game presented itself.

More worryingly for me, only Coad has made significant progress this year, with the rest of the squad either stagnating (Leaning, Hodd) or delivering significantly worse performances than in previous seasons (Lees, Lyth in red ball cricket, Bresnan, Patterson, Brooks). That is an awful lot of proven, successful cricketers to all have a poor season at the same time...

To be clear, these comments do not apply to Gale alone as there have been other changes and departures other than his, but while I truly admire what he and Moxon have done for YCCC I would be quite concerned and disappointed if there are no changes made over the winter. I don't want cricket to get like football when sacking the manager/ coach is seen as the solution to all one's problems, but another season like this is not acceptable for a club like Yorkshire, with the talent available in the dressing room.

(Edit of my amusing autocorrect of 'Moxon' to 'Mixing'...)


    
This message has been edited by _JG_ on Sep 27, 2017 10:52 PM


 
 
Idle man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 27 2017, 8:04 PM 

Well, is he 'nothing more than a mate', or has he 'lost the dressing room? Clearly it's not all as obvious and straightforward as some suggest. I tend to see more sign of the second, I'm afraid. One shouldn't read too much into smallish details but the final two home games saw Gale and his coaching colleagues on the balcony with precious little sign of the players who watched from within or from the pavilion seating above, except for the final tense overs of the Warwickshire game. It was a contrast with the opposition and with the team in previous years.

As far as his future is concerned, we're not a football club, and I tend to think coaches are entitled to a couple of seasons. On the other hand it's difficult to see that there is much of a way back from this situation. I wouldn't be surprised if he decided to walk. However he's captained Yorkshire through a genuinely great era, and is entitled to more gratitude and respect than some posters show him. They must have very short memories.



 
 
Alibor
(Login Alibor2)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 27 2017, 8:10 PM 

I think insufficient credit was given to Jason Gillespie's efforts and influence and too much was given to Andrew Gale's captaincy in recent years. Jason was a visible coach, popular but respected by players and a good communicator. There is plenty of evidence to suggest Gale was not a good leader, was often invisible on the field and certainly not inspirational like many opposing captains. The contrast on the field between Gale and the likes of Paul Collingwood, Steven Rhodes or Chris Read was so clear to observe. However, rather than renewing debate about Gale's captaincy skills, we should ask again about the thinking behind appointing him as coach of a team which clearly would include players with whom he was very close, whereas others were not so well connected. The principal of appointing any retiring player or captain as a coach or manager of the same side, is not usually wise or desirable.
As many of us feared, it has not worked and certainly team performance and fulfilling of expectations has been very disappointing.


    
This message has been edited by Alibor2 on Sep 27, 2017 8:42 PM


 
 
Idle man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 27 2017, 8:58 PM 

Sorry Alibor, I actually agree with your comments about internal appointments, but it's a bit unfair to say we should not debate something on which you have just expressed a very strong and completely evidence free opinion. I thought your description of Gale as captain was unrecognisable.

 
 
remit 1
(Login remit1)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 27 2017, 9:23 PM 

I turned again to MM’s report in the brochure presented to the AGM this Spring.

He gives quite a bit of space to the appointment of the new coach. Two points stood out:
He was the one who took the initiative with AG and who urged the board to make him JG’s successor;
That the key factor in the recommendation was that MM could work with him.

Surely it is, therefore, impossible to discuss the future of AG without discussing that of MM also.. If one remains, they should both remain, but if one is to go, the other ought to go also.

 
 
sid
(Login sid-don)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 27 2017, 9:37 PM 

I actually think AG can be a rather brooding and intense figure rather than being to friendly with the players. I'd suggest the atmosphere he generates is not one conducive to overcoming difficult times. I'm in the 'he's lost the dressing room' camp.

Dizzy was ruthless and had a clear vision, this was undoubtedly a positive but was the main contributory factor in the timing of his departure. The players completely respected him and his qualities. They believed he'd steer them to success. MM and AG completely lack these qualities and the players, I'd suspect, have doubts about them. The players don't think they'll be top of the league, it's a weak coaching team and the players know it, or more accurately knew it soon into the season.

If Dizzy was still in charge, todays debacle would simply have not occurred, the players respected him to much, which tells us a lot.

I cant see how AG and possibly MM can continue.

As an aside was the absence of Bres from the team this week ever explained?


    
This message has been edited by sid-don on Sep 27, 2017 9:44 PM


 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 27 2017, 9:45 PM 

Sid -- There was a report on the OS a couple of days ago stating he was "rested".

 
 
sid
(Login sid-don)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 27 2017, 9:49 PM 

Rested??? Its the final game, do they think we're idiots. If he was injured say so, if he was dropped say so - they're the only two options.

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 27 2017, 9:55 PM 

He was dropped.

'On Yorkshire's selection for this match, Gale said: "A spinner has to play and Brez hasn't performed to the best of his ability this year. He knows that. Matthew Fisher came in last week and looked the part with both bat and ball'.

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/sport/cricket/yorkshire/15557107.STUMPS__Yorkshire_secure_Division_One_safety/

 
 
Tyke1950
(Login Tyke1950)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 27 2017, 10:00 PM 

Idle Man's perspective on this issue, seems to me the most sensible.

I'm not inclined toward knee jerk responses to disappointment. There needs to be a period of reflection. None of us can be party to the precise dynamics troubling the dressing room and the management team.

It's likely that events will supersede my initial response, which is to give the management team time to show whether or not they're capable of getting us out of the mess they got us into.

I worry that there'll be departures from the squad we can ill afford. A winter of discontent may well be in the offing.

 
 
Frank Smith
(Login FreshStart1987)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 27 2017, 11:06 PM 

I think today's debacle is probably the straw that broke the camels back. I can't see how they can recover from this seasons poor showing. As others have alluded to i thinks it's clear he's either lost the dressing room or never had it. None of the senior players put in any effort today or during the match with the bat really.

I do think he's been badly let down by the senior players none have had a mediocre season let alone good 1 (excluding ballance till July)

I think some of the playing staff will move on as well and tbh I don't think it would be a bad thing. A few new faces wouldn't go amiss either.

I think a lot of players are either past their best or have gone stale

2/3 minimum to come in to the 11 would be great

 
 
Reg
(Login Reg123)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 28 2017, 7:23 AM 

I do have insight into this dressing room, but for obvious reasons its not really fair to share the detail of that. On Dizzy, it was time to go, his life needed to be elsewhere and his impact as a coach was suffering because of that.

A big part of Dizzy's success stemmed from two things, his ability to relate to every single player and the fact that he had 'been there and done it'. He therefore had the total respect of the team. This season, some key players have been marginalised, some obvious, some not so obvious and this has split the dressing room.

The first thing a coach must do is lead people and get the best out of them. This hasn't happened this year and won't happen next year with the current coaching set up, regardless of which players stay or go.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 28 2017, 7:57 AM 

I'd agree with Reg without the inside info.

Clearly Lees is unhappy, Brooks supposedly storming off and if I was Willey I'd wonder why I ever came to Yorkshire at all as he's never been given a four day go at all. Surely he'd be better then some we have tried?

With Siddy retiring the team lack a talisman or inspirational figure although bresnan may have fulfilled this role if his form had not deserted him. A good coach has to know what approach works for the different players in his squad. Trying to change six others is harder than trying to adopt alternative approaches yourself yet Gale appears to only have one way, his way.

The team need leadership and stability and the international call ups, overseas rotations haven't helped. In the late 60s we had about ten who could skipper the team but the team didn't really need a skipper as everyone knew their job. Now we appear clueless

 
 
Frank Smith
(Login FreshStart1987)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 28 2017, 8:06 AM 

Does anybody think anything will change though?? Will moxon and gale go??

Will there be an overhaul of the playing staff?? (Both incoming and outgoing)

Who would people want signed/replaced?? Both domestically and overseas

More importantly if the coaching staff go who would be the right replacements??

well spotted on the spelling mistake EastYorkshireTyke


    
This message has been edited by FreshStart1987 on Sep 28, 2017 9:43 AM


 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 28 2017, 8:09 AM 

If you were playing elsewhere why would you look to join Yorkshire at the moment?

No certainty over the coach being here at the start of the season, a team lacking form and confidence and you get messed about with half the team coming and going at the whim of the ecb.

Far more relaxing to stay in div 2.

 
 
Alibor
(Login Alibor2)

Re: Time for Coaching set up to go?

September 28 2017, 9:14 AM 

Sorry Idle Man but do not think I have said that there should not be a debate about the current state of affairs or the future of our great Club. Of course, other posters have different opinions to mine about management, coach, captaincy issues - that is heathy!
However, I think most supporters will be feeling this season just has not been good enough and improvement is urgently needed. Things cannot simply put to bed for the Winter for us to find that nothing has changed and next season will start like this one did.

 
 
 
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