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What should happen if the current coaching set up stays?

October 2 2017 at 11:08 PM
Guest  (Login Martinh00)

 
All the signs are that Gale, Moxon et al are not going anywhere. I think the only thing that might change that is player pressure but I suspect that we would have heard some fairly public statements/leaks about players wanting out. We haven't had that. So, what do we do to improve the situation. Couple of things spring to mind

Sidebottom. I think that he could be a really positive asset. Yes, he is part of the club, yes he is inexperienced (but does have qualifications I believe, and Brooks credits him more than JG for Yorkshire's bowling strength in recent years). I don't think a technical coach needs to be from outside to be successful. He could also act as a bridge between the players and the coaching staff

A new junior coach. I think a fresh pair of eyes from outside is essential. Not sure it matters what their role is. Let them do the dog throwing, if necessary but above all get someone in who can observe dispassionately

We also hear that the squad wont change much. If that is the case, I would personally focus on two things:

- try to get a consistent eleven and back our players. I would love to see Sidebottom work with Willey over the winter to do the sort of job Pyrah has done with Coad. Learn some new skills, become a more effective all round bowler and then lead the attack next season. Fingers crossed Fisher will finally have an injury free season - he was going to be in our first choice eleven at the start of the season I was told but injuries put paid to that. These two as bankers plus Coad and then Plunkett/Bresnan/Patto/Brooks gives us a varied seam attack. Our approach (to be fair not helped by injuries and international call ups) has been muddled this season

- on the batting front, more difficult, but I think dropping Lees down the order was belatedly the right thing to do. Im at a bit of a loss here. I guess we just hope that things are better than last season. I believe that we do need one fresh (but experienced) face in the top six to add solidity. Not sure who though

- fresh blood. Dont care if they are international, kolpak or domestic. They must have a track record of averaging at least 45. Or taking 45 wickets. Batsman ideally, spinner if there is anyone good enough. Even a seamer. We need a banker, and for me we cast the net as wide as necessary to get someone in that category

Will any of this turn our fortunes around? No idea, but it seems to me to be the bare minimum

 
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Guest
(Login Blackpooltyke)

Re: What should happen if the current coaching set up stays?

October 2 2017, 11:14 PM 

Sidders eh?

...and if we finish 4th again, will he get the same stick that our honourable ex-captain is getting now?

I want to remember sidders as a fine ambassador for the club and not want to risk members wrath if he takes the job and we do not improve.

A bit like the England Managers job, a bit of a poisoned chalice.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: What should happen if the current coaching set up stays?

October 3 2017, 6:46 AM 

That's fine. But then don't come whinging when he leads a county to the title somewhere else like Silverwood just has!

One of Dizzys strengths was his desire to seek constant improvement in his players but just as importantly in himself. In the winter months he went away to develop his own coaching in Australia and with t20 involvement specifically. He looked to broaden his experience and come back to us with fresh ideas .

I'm not sure what Andrew Gale plans to do this winter but he hasnt been asked to join the lions coaching staff like Silverwood and I'm not aware he is involved with any team elsewhere. This worries me if his winter is spent in Yorkshire watching Huddersfield Town


    
This message has been edited by ThirdUmpire on Oct 3, 2017 7:51 AM


 
 
JG
(Login _JG_)

Re: What should happen if the current coaching set up stays?

October 3 2017, 10:51 AM 

Well it's not a poisoned chalice seen as the previous incumbent left Yorkshire with a couple of trophies under his belt and his reputation massively enhanced- when was the last time an England football manager could say that?

 
 
Tyke83
(Login Tyke83)

Re: What should happen if the current coaching set up stays?

October 3 2017, 11:13 AM 

It surprises me that our batting is so poor considering that the two most senior cricket people in the club were batsmen. Maybe there is a little complacency there? It becomes a case of 'we've got it covered folks' rather than look for outside help in this matter.

 
 

Guest
(Login dpressed)

Re: What should happen if the current coaching set up stays?

October 3 2017, 5:54 PM 

Come off it T83. Yorkshire's batting has been poor since 2015 (as I've said before) and the club has also done nothing about the spin option if Rashid isn't available. The first 2 of those years was under Dizzy when Bairstow (in 2015) & Bresnan + the tail kept up competitive. By May 'the failthul' were predicting problems if Ballance got picked for England.

 
 
Tyke83
(Login Tyke83)

Re: What should happen if the current coaching set up stays?

October 3 2017, 10:03 PM 

I'm not denying there was a problem under Dizzy, My point is that having two former batsmen currently at the helm makes us unlikely to look outside for a solution.

 
 
YorkTyke
(Login YorkTyke)

Re: What should happen if the current coaching set up stays?

October 4 2017, 9:46 AM 


 
 
Frank Smith
(Login FreshStart1987)

Re: What should happen if the current coaching set up stays?

October 4 2017, 9:56 AM 

Read the mark Arthur comments earlier and it didn't make great reading

In laymans terms

We've got no money to sign anybody from another county

We've got no money to sign a kolpac

We've got no money to sack gale and moxon and get another coaching team to replace them

Better hope this overseas player gets 1000+ Runs to compensate for rest of the fragile line up

Otherwise all this long term vision crap goes out of the window next season once we are relegated

He's just made himself look abit of an idiot


    
This message has been edited by FreshStart1987 on Oct 4, 2017 11:20 AM


 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator

Re: What should happen if the current coaching set up stays?

October 4 2017, 10:37 AM 

From the article

".....However, many Yorkshire fans are firmly behind Gale and recognise the challenges that he faces, most notably trying to get more from a batting department that was under-performing long before he took charge....."

"Many Yorkshire fans behind Gale"???? I would bet my last dollar that there are more against him than for.

 
 
JG
(Login _JG_)

Re: What should happen if the current coaching set up stays?

October 4 2017, 10:42 AM 

"Also, any top-quality batsman who is thinking of moving county, for instance, would look at our line-up and say there’s no obvious place for them to get in because we do have quality options, regardless of the challenges that we’ve had this year.”

Ha! So our batting has been crap for two seasons but there wouldn't be any room for 'top quality' additions? What rubbish: we have three misfiring established batsmen in Lyth, Lees and Leaning plus the potentially absent Ballance- there are at least two and potentially three or four slots up for grabs in our top 6. And Arthur then follows this up with talk of complacency affecting our red ball cricket- well I wonder why...


    
This message has been edited by _JG_ on Oct 4, 2017 10:46 AM


 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: What should happen if the current coaching set up stays?

October 4 2017, 11:36 AM 

Yep ridiculous comment. Hodd has just spent the end of the season batting at 6 in a team including Ballance. How is there no obvious place for a top quality batsman..

 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: What should happen if the current coaching set up stays?

October 4 2017, 11:45 AM 

Comparing batting figures, 2014 and 2017. I've combined the Overseas players (all batting specialists) in each case. (Williamson/Finch and Brathwaite/Handscombe/Marsh).

The figures are...Matches...Runs...Average...Centuries. (County Championship only)

2014
Overseas.... 14 920 54.12 2
Lyth........ 16 1489 67.68 6
Lees........ 15 971 44.13 2
Ballance.... 6 585 65.00 2
Leaning..... 10 465 38.75 0
Rashid...... 14 577 38.64 1
Root/Bairstow 17 922 46.10 1

2017
Overseas.... 13 706 37.16 2
Lyth........ 13 555 25.22 1
Lees........ 14 531 24.13 1
Ballance.... 12 951 67.92 3
Leaning..... 10 454 30.26 1
Rashid...... 7 211 23.44 0
Root/Bairstow 4 30 7.50 0

So what's changed?
Well, with the exceptions of Ballance and Leaning, the 2017 figures are obviously worse. The availability of Root, Rashid and Bairstow is much reduced (and also their performances when they did play), but Ballance played twice as many games in 2017.

Other factors: Change of coach/captain from Gillespie/Gale to Gale/Ballance; reduced number of matches, and many fewer games in high summer; introduction of 'no toss' rule, affecting some of the pitches; all the players are three years older (which should have been a positive, given their youth).

And what's stayed the same?
The players listed; Martyn Moxon; by and large same opponents on same grounds.

Was anything not done that should have been done? Was it reasonable to expect Moxon/Gale to predict the slump in stats of these excellent batsmen, and to recruit accordingly? (Perhaps it was, given the warning signs in 2016.) Is it reasonable to expect this coaching team (any coaching team) to cure problems mid-season?

And what should they do now? Bearing in mind the financial constraints, and that the absence of a top-class spinner/all-rounder is the most obvious deficiency, can (and should) the batting be strengthened?

Finally, can any of this be put down to deteriorating dressing room spirit? (Given that the worst affected players are all senior pros now, who should be setting the dressing room atmosphere, rather than reacting to it.)

As I've said before, lots of questions, no answers. Not from me, anyway.

A final positive thought: we finished fourth. Top half of top division.

 
 
Martin
(Login Martin00)

Re: What should happen if the current coaching set up stays?

October 4 2017, 1:12 PM 

I think at the start of the season, Arthur's observation might have been more credible. Lees and Lyth had both had good seasons last year, ditto Bresnan, then add in an overseas and a returning Ballance who didn't look like he would get back into the England set up, and you had five players who would be difficult to be displaced by an in-coming dmoestic signing.

However, even then, I think there was one slot available in the top six - essentially a replacement for Gale.

So even if (and it is a huge if), all of Lees, Luyth, Ballance and Bresnan plus an overseas all perform well next year, there is still one very obvious vacancy for another strong domestic/kolpak batsman.

Brook's time will come, Leaning has never averaged 40 in a season and cannot realistically complain if he is displaced. The only person who might be peeved is K-C I suppose but he has been signed on potential and not on his pretty average first class record.


 
 
JG
(Login _JG_)

Re: What should happen if the current coaching set up stays?

October 4 2017, 3:34 PM 

Agreed, Martin.

There are parallels with Warwickshire here. They too had an established group of players who were successful for a number of years, finishing in the top 3 of the Championship each year from 2011-2014 and picking up a couple of white ball trophies alongside that. As their successful generation aged and little by way of new blood came through, in 2015 they slipped to 5th and last year they finished 6th, also recording their first "losing season" (i.e. they lost more games than they won) since 2010. Apparently they didn't heed the warnings, probably looking at the career records of their players rather than current performance levels, and the results of that really came home to roost this year. I hope that Yorkshire don't do similar, but if we continue to base our hopes on perceived "talent" and performances from 2016 or earlier then we run the risk of doing so.

 
 
Frank Smith
(Login FreshStart1987)

Re: What should happen if the current coaching set up stays?

October 4 2017, 4:06 PM 

If I was a betting man I'd be putting money on 2 from - Worcestershire, Hampshire and Yorkshire to be relegated next season

Familiarity breeds contempt, any successful side in any sport has to evolve and bring in new players to prevent stagnation and decline

As somebody wrote previously the comments from Mr Arthur are a year too late. You need to provide competition for places and replace players when they start to drop in performances. You don't wait till 3 or 4 have declined completely and thus in the process realise you can't afford to make 2-3 big signings. Sport moves in cycles especially cricket but good teams know when to put players out to pasture.

There's no room for sentiment in sport and the batting averages tell the story. If your not performing you don't deserve to be in the side.

No matter what goes on over the winter I fear we will be carrying 2 players and that's without the risk of ballance perhaps being in the England side.

I might be all doom and gloom but i think the sheer arrogance of the bloke to say nobody can break into our batting line up is an absolute disgrace.

 
 
Guest
(Login Blackpooltyke)

Re: What should happen if the current coaching set up stays?

October 4 2017, 4:15 PM 

Its interesting comparing averages from 2014 to this year.

in 2014 we were all clamouring on concentrating on one day cricket, in particular t20.

I feel that the team has done that this season with much more emphasis on attacking play....the down side to that is less emphasis on building innings and partnerships needed for first class cricket.

I am much too lazy to find the stats, but i suspect other teams batting performances have declined also as teams have concentrated ont the shorter versions of cricket.

To prove my point....lets take a look at these averages from 2014 and compare the strike rate with this years stats, betcha that although we scored many fewer runs the strike rate will be much higher. Compare other teams and if they are the same then i would suggest that the one day stuff has taken over training and skills needed for 4 day cricket have fallen by the wayside.

 
 
Alandale
(Login Alandale)

Wait for it!

October 4 2017, 4:16 PM 

Expect a press release any day now from the yes-men, sorry, Members Committee, to say the members back Mark Arthur’s statement…..

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: What should happen if the current coaching set up stays?

October 4 2017, 4:37 PM 

The bulk of this seasons batting line up all had higher strike rates in 2014.

Lyth
Lees
Ballance
Leaning
Bresnan
Hodd.


 
 
JollyD
(Login JollyD)

What should happen if the current coaching set up stays ?

October 4 2017, 6:29 PM 

I am not sure why you should seek to vilify the members' committee. They have wielded neither power nor responsibility for a number of years.
When the so-called 'Gang of Four' took over, the committee ceased to be a decision making body. The board of directors makes all decisions now, choosing to invest some of its powers in the hands of the Chief Executive. The board recommends new members to its number (or not as in the case of Boycott two years ago). Those appointments are ratified by club members at the AGM. Members sometimes vote against the recommendations but never in sufficient numbers to disturb the status quo.
A members' committee still exists, but is an advisory body only. I believe there are eight members, four elected by county members and four nominated by the board. Their job is to collate members' views and concerns and pass them on to the board. The one weakness, in my opinion, is that the four nominated members are virtually invisible. In contrast, I have always found the four elected members very approachable and reasonable.

 
 
 
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