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Gavin Gray
(Login yorkie1863)

Re: Pre-ww2 Yorkshire Vs post-ww2 Yorkshire

November 5 2017, 8:34 AM 

Hi everyone. I'm happy with the top 5 of Boycott, Hutton, Root, Lehmann and Bairstow jr. As for Close I personally wouldn't pick him but will go with the majority.
Keeper? Binks.
Bowlers? Trueman, Gough, Wardle and Sidebottom (R).

 
 
Seadog73
(Login Seadog73)

Re: Pre-ww2 Yorkshire Vs post-ww2 Yorkshire

November 5 2017, 10:06 AM 

I reckon this thread might still be going in April.....no bad thing.

 
 
WS55
(Login WibseySimon55)

Re: Pre-ww2 Yorkshire Vs post-ww2 Yorkshire

November 5 2017, 5:09 PM 

Gary, thanks ... that's a real gem about Hutton, towards the back end of the clip

 
 
sid
(Login sid-don)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Pre-ww2 Yorkshire Vs post-ww2 Yorkshire

November 5 2017, 8:21 PM 

Gav - I know we're good but its probably best if we play with 11!

I think I was last with

Batting 1- 6: Hutton, Boycott, Root, Lehman, JB, Close.

Keeper: Binks

Bowlers: FST, Sidebottom (R), Appleyard and Wardle

Questions:

Is Wardle better from Illy?

Is a change seam attack of Appleyard and Close good enough against the very best?



 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: Pre-ww2 Yorkshire Vs post-ww2 Yorkshire

November 6 2017, 10:25 AM 

My memory of Appleyard as a seamer (and I was only a little kid) would be that he bowled at about the same pace as Anthony McGrath, though I'm sure he bowled much better than that!

Of his credentials as a world-class off-spinner there can be no doubt. Clearly better than Illingworth purely as a bowler (good as Raymond was), but always batted 11 and I'm not sure he could field. Illy was the perfect all-round package, all the skills plus captaincy.

Wardle was much more 'three-dimensional' as a cricketer than Appleyard, and he bowled left-arm swing in the Lancashire League with the new ball, before reverting to the chinamen and googlies he was not allowed to bowl for Yorkshire, even though he won a Test series for England (in S Africa) bowling this stuff.

Yorkshire's man-management in the 1950s must have been bad beyond belief, the reason one of the greatest teams there has ever been never won the Championship.

 
 
Idle man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: Pre-ww2 Yorkshire Vs post-ww2 Yorkshire

November 6 2017, 12:19 PM 

I've been trawling around for statistics, without success, but I'm fairly sure Appleyard regularly took the new ball. Indeed I have a memory, which I have not been able to retrace, that after Tony Nicholson, he was Fred's most frequent new ball partner. Then later in the innings he would bowl top quality off-breaks. He certainly wasn't fast, but then I think pace is adequately catered for with the first-choice seamer.

I have been interested in looking at figures at how much Close bowled. Before my time, back in the fifties, I believe he could be quite quick. But even as late as 1961, he bowled 436 overs and took 52 wickets. Those aren't the figures of an occasional bowler.

 
 
Guest
(Login BrickyardBoy)

Close bowling

November 6 2017, 12:48 PM 

Some footage of Close bowling to Hutton in the nets:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzedWSOYts4

 
 
Anthony Rowe
(Login tonyinsiam)

PWW2 Team

November 6 2017, 12:52 PM 

Yes Idle, your memory backs up mine. Appleyard was, sort of, two bowlers in one. He was medium at fastest but about Underwood's pace when bowling his off- breaks. His pace variation was one of his strengths. It would be interesting to compare how many wickets he took when in Medium pacer mode and in Off- break mode.

 
 
sid
(Login sid-don)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Pre-ww2 Yorkshire Vs post-ww2 Yorkshire

November 6 2017, 1:36 PM 

Its been a slow day at work. I'm perhaps gaining some sympathy with 'real' selectors such is the circles I've turned when thinking about this.

I assume this mythical team will be playing games against similar elevens from the counties or even test nations? We need the best and to avoid sentiment.

I've changed my batting. Vaughan comes in at the expense of JB allowing Root to bat 4 and Lehman 5. My first '5' are now:

GB, Hutton, Vaughan, Root and Lehman.

Bowlers will definitely include: FST, Sidebottom (R) and Wardle

Keeper is Binks.

We have two places to fill, a third seamer and an off spinner.

I'm not sure DB Close is a strong enough bowler for the third seamer role. That role has to go to an out and out bowler - Brian is struggling to make my side.

I really want Appleyard and Illy - something has to give.

At the moment the final two places are heading towards Illy and either Darren Gough or Chris Old.

Giving a provisional final team of GB, Hutton, Vaughan, Root, Lehman, Illy, Wardle, FST, 'Gough/Old (big assumption Chilly is fully fit), Binks and Ryan S.

Anyone disagree?


    
This message has been edited by sid-don on Nov 6, 2017 3:05 PM


 
 
Guest
(Login Tyke1950)

Re: Pre-ww2 Yorkshire Vs post-ww2 Yorkshire

November 6 2017, 3:37 PM 

I've got no deep rooted objection to any of your selections, Sid.
We're lucky to have so many splendid players to choose from. Indeed, so rich are our resources that a post-war second eleven would give a good game to your First Team.

I'd pay to watch your team versus this optional Second Eleven, which contains its own stars and which would give other County Post War First Teams a run for their money:

Moxon, McGrath, Sharpe, Close, Hampshire, Bairstow J., White, Gough/Old (whichever one you decide to drop,Sid), Nicholson, Wilson D., Appleyard
This team has a strong batting line up featuring left and right handlers of exceptional quality. It has a very fine array of versatile spinners, clever seamers capable of good pace, the best slip catcher who ever lived and exceptional tactical nous.

 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: Pre-ww2 Yorkshire Vs post-ww2 Yorkshire

November 6 2017, 5:43 PM 

I would want Rashid and Watson in that 2nd XI, and what's the general opinion about the relative merits of Gough, Hoggard and Silverwood? I think we largely agree than Sid jnr is just ahead of them, at least as a Yorkshire player.

Once again I'll say it, how privileged we are to have watched so many fantastic players.

 
 
sid
(Login sid-don)
Assistant Moderator

Re: Pre-ww2 Yorkshire Vs post-ww2 Yorkshire

November 6 2017, 7:31 PM 

Been out running and simultaneously working on my 2nd team:

At the moment:

Moxon
Close (England opener 1976!)
Athey (but if based on standing whilst with Yorks, maybe Mags should replace him)
Hampshire
Bairstow (J)
Ballance
White
Rashid
Gough (I think a fully fit Chris Old edges into the first team)
Hoggard (but maybe Silverwood)
Appleyard

Liable to change

I've not considered the various short term overseas players. The only one I thought about was Michael Bevan who was a more permanent arrangement than all apart from Lehman, on reflection he may edge out Hampshire.

 
 
Guest
(Login ThirdUmpire)

Re: Pre-ww2 Yorkshire Vs post-ww2 Yorkshire

November 6 2017, 8:20 PM 

If we have broadened to allow performances in test cricket and not just a Yorkshire shirt which is the case we out when selecting Vaughan, then why do we not apply the same for the overseas selection and pick Tendulkar ahead of Lehmann?

I can't imagine any Yorkshire team without DB Close in it.

I'm still with

Boycott, Root, Lehmann or Tendulkar, Vaughan, Close, Bairstow J, Binks, Trueman, Appleyard, Sidebottom, Wardle.

 
 
Tyke1950
(Login Tyke1950)

Re: Pre-ww2 Yorkshire Vs post-ww2 Yorkshire

November 6 2017, 8:33 PM 

Dave, you're right to raise Rashid and Hoggard as serious challengers.

As I said, I don't have a real objection to Sid's team - except that the issue of whether or not to include overseas players complicates matters.

Lehman was a wonderful cricketer and it seems churlish to omit him from any post war Yorkshire side; however if we include him, we might also have to consider Bevan, Tendulkar, Rudolph, Harvey, Morkel etc, etc. This would spoil our fun.

How about we drop Lehman from Sid's first team, juggle the order a bit and replace him with Rashid?
Hoggard is a tough call. Watson gives me less concern. A case might also be made for David Byas or Ashley Metcalf.

 
 
 
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