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WRF
(Premier Login AlexRoberts)
Owner

Day Five

November 26 2017, 11:20 PM 

England 302 & 195
Australia 328 & 114/0 (34 ov, target: 170)
Australia require another 56 runs with 10 wickets remaining
""

 
 
Egham Tyke
(Login Davetyke)

Re: 1st Ashes Test | Australia vs England at the Gabba, Brisbane

November 27 2017, 8:06 AM 

Joe reckons we outplayed them for quite a few sessions. Not the important ones though Joe. The openers in the second innings made batting look easy. Still, the fixtures are out this week to keep us interested until Saturday

 
 
Martin
(Login Martinh00)

Re: 1st Ashes Test | Australia vs England at the Gabba, Brisbane

November 27 2017, 11:27 AM 

Reality is that our fastest/tallest bowlers are either injured (Finn), injured at the wrong time (Plunkett wasn't drafted into the squad to replace Finn because he had a niggle at the time) or returning from injury (Wood).

I think it is probably a little harsh to judge Moeen on this one game. He is no Lyon but he has had a good 12 months - and his finger was injured which must have stopped him from putting the required revs on the ball. I also think that Lyon was flattered by our batsmen somewhat. Crane would surely be made mincemeat of by the Aussie batsmen - look at his economy rate in those warm up games, against second division county standard players. And to think that Bayliss brought him in because he would be more economical than Rashid.

 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: 1st Ashes Test | Australia vs England at the Gabba, Brisbane

November 27 2017, 2:12 PM 

Moeen has done far better than some of us expected, but his limitations as a front line spinner were shown up by Hope and Brathwaite at Headingley, and now by contrast with Lyon at Brisbane.

When the pitch is a raging turner for one spinner, and doesn't turn at all for the other, it's fair to ask questions. Jack Leach is undoubtedly the best spin bowler in England, and he should be added to the party. If Moeen gets into the side as a batsman, which he probably does, then he could be second spinner, and he would be a good one.

We are suffering from the ECB depriving us of our best all-rounder. Woakes and Ball are not Test bowlers. I thought Woakes might have made the step-up, since I saw him in S Africa, when he was very poor, but he remains a poor man's Tim Bresnan, at best. Craig Overton should play at Adelaide in the continuing absence of Stokes.

 
 
Seadog73
(Login Seadog73)

Re: 1st Ashes Test | Australia vs England at the Gabba, Brisbane

November 27 2017, 3:03 PM 

That's a bit harsh on Woakes - 'poor man's Bresnan'....Woakes is outstanding in English conditions, but granted he needs to improve overseas. Overton should come in for Ball, as he should have at Brisbane. Last I heard, the police were depriving us of Stokes.

 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: 1st Ashes Test | Australia vs England at the Gabba, Brisbane

November 27 2017, 3:14 PM 

Not sure over 400 First Class wickets at 25 can be called a poor man's anything let alone someone who doesn't average sub 30.

Granted Woakes had a poor game.

Leach would get the Kerrigan treatment. Agree with Overton for Ball and go again.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: 1st Ashes Test | Australia vs England at the Gabba, Brisbane

November 27 2017, 3:21 PM 

"I thought Woakes might have made the step-up, since I saw him in S Africa, when he was very poor, but he remains a poor man's Tim Bresnan, at best."

Yet again, I find myself watching a different game to some others.

 
 
Kevin Owens
(Login kevinowens)

Re: 1st Ashes Test | Australia vs England at the Gabba, Brisbane

November 27 2017, 3:30 PM 

Think they could be a bit of Yorkshire Bias there Dave. Woakes is better than Bres hands down

 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: 1st Ashes Test | Australia vs England at the Gabba, Brisbane

November 27 2017, 4:00 PM 

Woakes always took wickets in County Cricket - but rarely against Yorkshire, which is a clue to his failure now. I'm not suggesting that the Bresnan of 2017 should play for England, but he was one who always played above himself, as witness England's 15 wins in his 23 Tests, and two Ashes series wins.

Their Test stats are quite similar, in fact.

Woakes 19 matches, 692 runs at 30.08, 51 wickets at 32.21.
Bresnan 23 matches, 575 runs at 26.13, 72 wickets at 32.73.

The difference, I am suggesting, is in mental toughness; that Bresnan did it for England when the chips were down, and that Woakes doesn't. Not so far. Perhaps he will, he's young enough.

In commentary today, Boycott alluded to Matthew Hoggard, a swing bowler in English conditions who - in Australia - reverted to cutters with outstanding success (7-for at Adelaide, though Boycs said it was 6). I was there! Ashley Giles dropped a dolly catch offered by Ponting, the England batsmen bottled it on the final day, and we lost after scoring over 500 in the first innings.

We could still have won, but Giles bottled it with the ball, too. It's mentally tough guys who win Ashes Tests.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)

Re: 1st Ashes Test | Australia vs England at the Gabba, Brisbane

November 27 2017, 4:20 PM 

Didn't see Bresnan do much when the chips were down in Australia in 2013?

Indeed his record when England win matches is an impressive 38 with the bat and 25 with the ball. When England lost it was 14 with the bat and 69 with the ball.

I don't want to knock Bresnan but do those figures back up your assertion that he stood up for England when the chips were down?


    
This message has been edited by EastYorkshireTyke on Nov 27, 2017 4:28 PM


 
 
Dwight_Schrute
(Login Dwight_Schrute)

Re: 1st Ashes Test | Australia vs England at the Gabba, Brisbane

November 27 2017, 4:35 PM 

"Woakes always took wickets in County Cricket - but rarely against Yorkshire, which is a clue to his failure now."

Just had a gander through some Yorks v Warks matches dating back to 2013. Woakes has missed alot of the matches for obvious reasons. But i make it 6 inns he's bowled taking 20 wickets at 20.65. Some failure that.

 
 

Dave Morton
(Login DaveMorton)

Re: 1st Ashes Test | Australia vs England at the Gabba, Brisbane

November 27 2017, 5:15 PM 

If that's right, Dwight, I'll stand corrected. My memory (possibly false!) is that I watched this then young bowler, who kept taking 5-fors for Warwickshire and getting huge write-ups, and he neither did that, nor looked good enough, against us. The comparison was always made with Patto, who was similar in pace, though he seamed it compared with Woakes's swing.

Since then Woakes has clearly put on pace, but is it at the expense of swing? His batting credentials are fine, and he looks a classy performer, but not one good enough to come within a mile of Test cricket if that is his major asset.

The other side of the coin is Mark Stoneman, who did it time and again against Yorkshire in those years when we had the best attack. His problem was that his overall average was not great. He did it against our Fab Four, and on dodgy pitches, but failed against lesser attacks.

He should have been selected at the time England were using Compton, Trott, Lyth, Carberry and Robson as openers. All good players, by the way, I'm not knocking anyone - not even Woakes!

Going back further, there were two England players with huge reputations in County cricket who never quite did it in Tests - Hick and Ramprakash. Hick got a hundred the first time he played against Yorkshire (I think), but then we got Gough and Silverwood and he failed time and again after that. Ramprakash simply churned out hundreds against us, just like Stoneman.

Hick and Ramps both played out their stuttering Test careers against attacks far better than we're facing now. So the current team has a chance, but we've got to bowl better than we did in Brisbane. It was embarrassing.

 
 
Idle man
(Login Idle_man)

Re: 1st Ashes Test | Australia vs England at the Gabba, Brisbane

November 27 2017, 5:38 PM 

If my memory is correct OHD got Ramps in his first match. He may even have been his first championship wicket.

 
 
Geoff B
(Login Coastalview)

Inability to perform when required

November 27 2017, 7:48 PM 

I haven't heard anything from Woakes or Ball, both of whom bowled way below their best in this test, but Ali has put his hand up and admitted his bowling was 'rubbish'.

Three bowlers who may not have the talent to be the best in the world is one thing.
Three bowlers who are unable to give of their best when it matters so much is another.

 
 

Guest
(Login dpressed)

Re: 1st Ashes Test | Australia vs England at the Gabba, Brisbane

November 27 2017, 8:06 PM 

Wow. I'm impressed by I-m Ramps was OHDs first first class wicket

http://www.cricketarchive.co.uk/Yorkshire/Scorecards/132/132301.html

 
 
 
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