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WR_Metcalfe
(Login WR_Metcalfe)
2.218.80.38

Re: Way forward for England

December 19 2017, 2:20 PM 

One problem I have noticed the past two seasons is that the county and international blocks of test/4 day and one day cricket have been out of sync. So this year, Hameed was in a bad run of form in the early season but when the tests were being played, he could only play T20 or 2nd XI games to get form rather than county championship. It's the same with Plunkett, "He's only played 2 CC games all year" is the cry against him. But most of the CC games coincided with England one day games. By my generous count, only 6 Yorkshire CC games wouldn't clash with England one day squads last year.

I don't know if this is a conscious decision or the law of unintended consequences, but it does not seem to be optimised towards getting reserve players opportunities to get into good form.

 
 
Pauld
(Login pdowgill)
217.35.255.147

Re: Way forward for England

December 19 2017, 6:33 PM 

This business of playing too much CC and fitness is an interesting one. Compare two of England’s so called greatest bowlers with the greatest:

Trueman Tests 67 Overs 2529 Years 13 Average 5 /First class games 603 Overs 16616 Years 20 Average 30
Broad Tests 112 Overs 3840 Years 10 Average 11.2 /First class games 183 Overs 5816 Years 12 Average 15
Anderson Tests 132 Overs 4840 Years 14 Average 9 /First class games 220 Overs 7435 Years 15 Average 15

So Trueman played over 500 first class games outside of tests, Anderson and Broad have played c70-90 and on average Trueman played twice as many games a year. Given in most sports players are now fitter, faster etc than they were in the 50/60s yet in cricket they are playing half as much but have far better facilities/support etc. So why as some many fast bowlers injured? It’s not from playing too much – perhaps it goes back to coaching as Tony Pond(?) was implying last night on Tuffers and Vaughan or is it because they are not bowling on what now would be seen as ‘clogs’and so are getting stress fractures. Whatever, I would argue it couldn’t be blamed on playing too much CC.


Table looks right in composition btw.

 
 
twenty2guns
(Login twenty2guns)
217.43.17.107

Way forward for England

December 19 2017, 8:45 PM 

George Dobell makes several good points in this article:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21805721/ecb-decade-errors-led-ashes-failure


    
This message has been edited by twenty2guns from IP address 217.43.17.107 on Dec 19, 2017 8:47 PM


 
 
Rich
(Login Topwithins)
90.216.86.241

Way forward for England

December 20 2017, 1:22 PM 

Agree with most points raised, George Dobell in particular. For my part, there's not too much County Cricket, there's too much Test cricket. Remember when there was one series at home in the summer, and an overseas tour in winter. Now we have 2/3 home series in one season with ODI's, T20's and then the same overseas in the winter. The Central Contract players only play the odd County game so how are they expected to perform in a 5 day Test?

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator
79.69.151.206

Re: Way forward for England

December 20 2017, 2:39 PM 

Agree with the GB article and the points raised by many of us. Far to much International cricket, not enough 4 day County Cricket and not enough opportunities for the England players to play 4 day cricket. Lets get back to a maximum of 5 tests per summer and the England players playing in at least 8 CC matches per season as they always used to do before central contracts came in. You might just then get some decent pace bowlers and find a spinner who can actually "spin" the ball.

This one sentence from the article sums it up for me re the ECB.

"If the ECB are judged by anything but financial criteria, they are a failure."

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)
213.249.140.86

Re: Way forward for England

December 20 2017, 3:44 PM 

"Lets get back to a maximum of 5 tests per summer and the England players playing in at least 8 CC matches per season as they always used to do before central contracts came in. You might just then get some decent pace bowlers and find a spinner who can actually "spin" the ball."

Where were all these decent pace bowlers and spinners in the 80's and 90's when players played all the time?

Also, if the secret to producing decent pace bowlers is playing so much cricket how come the Australian's and South African's produce good ones whilst playing little first class cricket?


    
This message has been edited by EastYorkshireTyke from IP address 213.249.140.86 on Dec 20, 2017 3:58 PM


 
 
Opening stand
(Login Openingstand)
92.22.138.138

Re: Way forward for England

December 20 2017, 4:01 PM 


 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator
79.69.151.206

Re: Way forward for England

December 20 2017, 4:27 PM 

EYT --- "Where were all these decent pace bowlers and spinners in the 80's and 90's when players played all the time?"

They were around but none of them were English. It was the period when overseas stars were prevalent. The leading bowlers in the 80`s & 90`s" were Waqar Younis, Richard Hadlee, Malcolm Marshall, Courtney Walsh, Franklyn Sephenson, Mushtaq Ahmed & Anil Kumble.

All of them very quick or big spinners and all playing in County Cricket.

 
 
Guest
(Login EastYorkshireTyke)
213.249.140.86

Re: Way forward for England

December 20 2017, 4:38 PM 

I genuinely don't understand what point you're making here.

You acknowledge that the English system didn't produce pace bowlers or spinners in the 80's or 90's yet want to return to that?

 
 
Stu
(Login StuartRA)
Assistant Moderator
79.69.151.206

Re: Way forward for England

December 20 2017, 5:03 PM 

The English system & wickets in the 80's & 90's did help genuine quick bowlers and spinners because they were playing County matches in the height of summer when the wickets were at there quickest or would take spin when they broke up.

Nowadays CC is played predominantly early and late season at times that do not suit that type of bowler, so you end up with teams packed with medium pace seam & swing bowlers.

That is the point I am trying to make, probably badly!!





    
This message has been edited by StuartRA from IP address 79.69.151.206 on Dec 20, 2017 5:31 PM


 
 
marsker
(Login marskeman)
86.26.195.147

Re: Way forward for England

December 20 2017, 7:37 PM 

George Dobell has written an excellent piece on espn cricinfo, on how the ecb are ruining the english game. i think the ecb hierarchy should be made to take notice of it.

 
 
Pauld
(Login pdowgill)
109.158.234.75

Re: Way forward for England

December 20 2017, 8:37 PM 

Unfortunately the bottom line is county cricket does not make any money and without the test match and other income a number of counties would fold. Now this may not be a bad thing, as David Hopps intimated on the radio the other night, but which ones? I have not worked out how many days cricket YJB has played in the last year (someone will know) but given the size of the central contact it will be a bloody good day rate. I just not get the notion of playing less, as mentioned by a footballer the other night you stay fit by playing as there is little training in the season - surely cricket is the same and so the more you play the more real practice you get?

 
 
 
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