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Jim Gillilan's Custom 1322 Carbine

Jim Gillilan's Custom 1322 Carbine w/Custom Stock

Here's one I'm especially proud of and is modded all over, doing 12fpe at 15 pumps.
Stock is Teak from Thailand and super light weight 1322 Carbine!

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Super sear/TKO trigger

April 21 2017 at 5:26 PM

cobalt  (Login cobalt327)
Crosman Forum Member
from IP address 68.184.158.177

Anyone used the Archer Airguns 13/22 SuperSear with a TKO 1911 style trigger?

 
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Steve in NC
(Login pneuguy)
Crosman Forum Member
162.198.201.47

I've never tried the combination. However, the SuperSear was specifically designed...

April 22 2017, 8:58 PM 

...to work with the full unobstructed travel of the stock Crosman trigger...

http://www.archerairguns.com/1322-SuperSear-for-Crosman-p/1322supersear.htm

...since it looks like the TKO trigger reduces trigger travel (especially if the optional engagement-reducing screw is installed), chances are that this would NOT be a "marriage made in heaven."

So I can't recommend it.

 
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Mike T.
(Login TKO22)
Crosman Forum Member
68.15.228.128

I'm not sure if they will work together...

April 23 2017, 4:42 AM 

When two designers separately make their trigger enhancement products, they may change the sear contact points, angles of surfaces, travel, fulcrum positions, etc. to achieve what they want.

If, when the gun is cocked, the supersear locates the sear/trigger nose contact point differently from the factory position, the TKO 1911 trigger probably won't work.

The sear contact point of the TKO trigger is closer to the trigger pivot point, therefore the 1911 trigger actually slightly increases the trigger blade travel before release... when used with a factory profile sear part. It also positions the finger slightly lower and further away from the trigger pivot point, thereby increasing leverage.

If the optional sear engagement set-screw mod is performed in conjunction with the 1911 trigger, I doubt you would be happy with it and a supersear in place.

Here I'll toss in my self-serving promotional link... TKO22.com (Order section 8) (Order section 8)

[linked image]

I recall quite a kurfuffle about a similar question a few years ago.

Steve, I'd be glad to send you a 1911 trigger if you send me a supersear, and we can compare notes.

MIke T.
TKO22.com

---+---

Edited to correct spelling.


    
This message has been edited by TKO22 from IP address 68.15.228.128 on Apr 23, 2017 4:50 AM


 
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Steve in NC
(Login pneuguy)
Crosman Forum Member
162.198.201.47

That's way too interesting an offer to refuse, Mike. Can I use the email address...

April 23 2017, 2:10 PM 

...on your site: sales@tko22.com

...to contact you and exchange snailmail addresses for trigger and sear?

 
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Mike T.
(Login TKO22)
Crosman Forum Member
68.15.228.128

Yes... sales@tko22.com

April 24 2017, 6:26 AM 

My address is on my website: www.tko22.com

Thanks!

 
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Steve in NC
(Login pneuguy)
Crosman Forum Member
162.198.201.47

Email sent. nt

April 24 2017, 8:24 AM 


 
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cobalt
(Login cobalt327)
Crosman Forum Member
68.184.158.177

Sounds excellent

April 24 2017, 10:33 AM 

Gentlemen, I look forward to your assessments. This is an outstanding example of cooperation, and I hope it benefits you both in the end. And to put my money where my mouth is, I will order one of each, regardless of whether they are compatible or not. This may mean I'll need another gun to put one or the other in if it turns out they don't play well together, but that's not a bad thing, right? lol

Thanks to you both.

 
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Steve in NC
(Login pneuguy)
Crosman Forum Member
162.198.201.47

I've got a Super' cocked and aimed in the general direction of Nebraska...

April 24 2017, 4:28 PM 

...just waiting for Mike to respond to my email.

 
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ped
(Login --ped--)
Crosman Forum Member
2.223.92.133

Re: Super sear/TKO trigger

April 24 2017, 2:59 PM 

can't see the point buying the super sear just buy a p-rod trigger unit and challenger hammer/or mod your original
the tko trigger is nice but would be better with a wider finger contact area

 
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dan_house
(Login dan_house)
Crosman Forum Member
153.90.49.121

Remember Ped, this forum caters to Crosmaniacs of all skill levels

April 26 2017, 12:18 PM 

and economic standing.

Some folks ardent comfortable opening the gun up to install that kinda thing,a nd a drop in like the SS or TKO trigger solves that issue for them......


And given the inexpensive nature of the guns those two products fit, some folks cant/wont justify the money for the P-rod parts.....


no right or wrong here, just options.......





 
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Mike T.
(Login TKO22)
Crosman Forum Member
68.15.228.128

E-mail replied to Steve.

April 24 2017, 5:15 PM 

We made the first batch of the 1911 triggers in the narrow version about 4 years ago. Sold or gave away the 100 we made in about 4-5 months. Previous to the 1911 style, we made a batch of 50 wide blade triggers that more followed the factory profile, with a more upright finger blade. Those were anodized in several colors and sold out pretty fast.

This is a picture of the 2-stage trigger we came up with that has a early wide blade TKO trigger. (Note the similarity of the original TKO design of the drop sear and primary sear and the current Marauder pistol trigger. We made and sold 25 sets of the TKO 2-stage parts about 2 years before the Marauder pistol was introduced.

[linked image]

We also made a small batch of 25 of the 2-piece adjustable wide blades:

[linked image]
[linked image]

They sold well but were labor intensive, and this is a hobby for me, and I would rather go golfing or trap shooting than work any more!

---

We then made a batch of wide blade versions and sold those 50 in about 6 months.

We had several comments that the narrow blade version actually "felt" better.

Comparison photo:

[linked image]
(The black stuff on the wideblade is a machining wax)

We can cut and finish 100 of the narrow 1911 triggers in the time it takes to cut, machine, finish 10 of the wide blade versions. The wide blade version also required a wire EDM'd fixture to clamp the triggers to the mill to machine the flats. Since we don't have EDM equipment, the fixture was around $600 to have produced. (We traded out some contract work for the tooling.) The fixture is an amazing piece of engineering, as the triggers are only clamped once, and the CNC mill flips the fixture over when finishing each side. The time on the mill was slowing more profitable work because of the long setup time. And we would scrap 6-7 triggers before it was ready to run production.

Also ... 1/8" 5052 is about 1/3 the cost of 1/4" 5052 plate aluminum. If you have ever watched 52,000 psi water and garnet cut plate aluminum, you will know that 1/8" aluminum will "flutter" less that 1/4" plate when cutting the same profile. That flutter causes the part to move around during the last few mm of the cutting process. So the 1/4" part must be cut slower. When running 52K psi with an abrasive water slurry, the ceramic nozzles wear a bit. The faster you can cut and still have the required surface finish the better.

So... We regressed to the narrow blade. I play more golf, and sell just as many triggers!

[linked image]

Thanks guys.

Steve and I will post up our results... hoping they are compatible.

MIke T.
TKO22.com


 
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ped
(Login --ped--)
Crosman Forum Member
2.223.92.133

Re: E-mail replied to Steve.

April 25 2017, 1:54 AM 

I wasn't knocking your trigger and I'm aware of the work required to produce parts at a cost effective price that makes it profitable to sell but just saying the blade would feel nicer wider
not sure on the golf but going fishing and shooting is sure better than working

 
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cobalt
(Login cobalt327)
Crosman Forum Member
68.184.158.177

Re: E-mail replied to Steve.

April 25 2017, 11:18 PM 

A narrow blade isn't detrimental as far as I'm concerned- at least not unless the trigger pull weight is excessive. Then, the extra width can make it feel like the pull is lighter than it actually is. But otherwise it's more or less of a wash to me. Most any trigger I use will get smoothed on the right edge if too sharp. Purely a preference thing. An example of one that doesn't feel good to me is the Spa CP-1M. And the guard is so small that a shoe would make it way too cramped.

[linked image]

Quick question for Steve and Mike: Are there any plans to produce anything for the Spa CP-1M? Myself, I would buy a decent grip in a second! Same for other 'enhancements' like a good trigger guard, triggers, sears, hammer debouncers- any of the usual things people use on CO2 pistols.


 
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ped
(Login --ped--)
Crosman Forum Member
2.223.92.133

Re: E-mail replied to Steve.

April 26 2017, 1:53 AM 

yep cp-1 trigger is pants as new even with the adjuster screws but plenty of room for a shoe
my mate makes many custom parts(more for aesthetics) for them and trigger shoes seem one of the more popular along with as spring guide, top hat and trigger bush to remove travel

 
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dan_house
(Login dan_house)
Crosman Forum Member
153.90.49.121

Pics gentleman Puh-leez as you perform your tests

April 26 2017, 12:10 PM 

and please describe yer methodology

Looksing for ward to this one happy.gif

 
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Steve in NC
(Login pneuguy)
Crosman Forum Member
162.198.201.47

Thanks for the invitation, Dan. My plan is to test Mike's cool looking triggers...

April 26 2017, 3:11 PM 

...with both the adjustable (sold by AoA) and non-adjustable (sold by Archer) versions of my Crosman compatible sears.

 
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MIke T.
(Login TKO22)
Crosman Forum Member
68.15.228.128

I'll document the process with ...

April 27 2017, 10:15 AM 

"Twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one. I'll take pictures of the approach,
the getaway, the northwest corner the southwest corner and that's not to
mention the aerial photography."

---+---

Will be busy the next week or two ... son's Hooding ceremony and Graduation from Medical School, then helping him set up his home and move to Kansas City for his residency. Then off to Hawaii for a "Destination Baptism".

But I can always find a hour or two here and there for some fun!

Mike

 
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Steve in NC
(Login pneuguy)
Crosman Forum Member
162.198.201.47

LOL! Another "Alice's Restaurant" fan? Come join the crowd...

April 27 2017, 3:06 PM 

...over here on the Group W bench.

 
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Mike T.
(Login TKO22)
Crosman Forum Member
68.15.228.128

I tried to get my 6 kids listen to it...

April 27 2017, 3:22 PM 

over these last 38 years ... They just don't get it.

"KID, HAVE YOU REHABILITATED YOURSELF?"

 
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Steve in NC
(Login pneuguy)
Crosman Forum Member
162.198.201.47

And I don't wanna die! I just wanna ride on my motor-cy...

April 27 2017, 5:15 PM 

...cle.

 
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