I have had to fire twice on human targets, both times in former Yugoslavia. One was during a crossroad in Prizren that we were guarding with 3 schόtzenpanzer, a small van with 2 Serbs drove by and started shooting at civilians, we were ordered to open fire. The Driver died and the other serb was badly injured.
The other time was during a evacuation of German civilian out of Tirana in Albania, it was also a van that drove by and started shooting, we were ordered to open fire. I dont know if anybody was hit because the van left as soon as we started to shoot back.
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Thankfully I haven't yet, but I figure eventually I'll be in that situation if I stay in for 20. With the US likely to be in Iraq for a few years it's probably only a matter of time.
So how did you feel afterwards Derwyvern? Were you able to write it off, or was there some odd feelings over it? I guess I should ask that to anyone who has been in that situation, as I'm sure also Ben & Barry and a few others have.
The American Marine Division has the highest combat effectiveness in the American armed forces. It seems not enough for our four divisions to surround and annihilate its two regiments.
---Mao Tse Sung to General Song, prior to Chosin Reservoir
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Quote:
"So how did you feel afterwards Derwyvern? Were you able to write it off, or was there some odd feelings over it?"
I didnt feel much directly after the shootings, but after about a week you start to wonder if it was your bullet that killed the driver I still think about it often. It helps a bit knowing that you saved a lot of civilians that were being shoot at. I expecialy remember a little girl that got shoot in the leg in the middle of the road and coulnt move, she would have been overrun by the van had the driver not been hit.
The whole thing made me change my mind about staying on another 4 years.
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On the 8th day God created Ben-Britain and he took over!
"when I get home people'll ask me,'hey Hoot, why do ya do it man? Why? Just some war junkie?' Ya know what I'll say? I won't say a goddamn word. Why? They won't understand. They won't understand why we do it. They won't understand it's about the man next to you, and that's it. That's all it is."
SGT 1st Class Norman Hooten
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I don't blame for you not staying on, definately not a pleasant situation to be in.
I have no similar experience, but I've asked my father pretty much the same question before. He had also been in the Marines and had fought in Vietnam. He told me he seriously thought he might lose his lunch the first time he actually knew he killed someone. He also said that it didn't take long to become callous, and soon killing became like cleaning your rifle or some other task in the military. You just did it and didn't think much about it or have any emotions over it.
The American Marine Division has the highest combat effectiveness in the American armed forces. It seems not enough for our four divisions to surround and annihilate its two regiments.
---Mao Tse Sung to General Song, prior to Chosin Reservoir
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Since u get in a war zone in mathematical proved that u will have to kill someone or someone will kill u. So for sure u hv thought it before. Especially if u fight to protetect your home and your family i think any hesitation is out of place. Now if u r in a profesional army and u r somewhere away from home and u fight for something else: is your job and u have do it as best as u can
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it sounds harsh but it has never affected me at all. i just see it as one of those things
On the 8th day God created Ben-Britain and he took over!
"when I get home people'll ask me,'hey Hoot, why do ya do it man? Why? Just some war junkie?' Ya know what I'll say? I won't say a goddamn word. Why? They won't understand. They won't understand why we do it. They won't understand it's about the man next to you, and that's it. That's all it is."
SGT 1st Class Norman Hooten
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I have never had to fire on anybody. I have also heard from my former section commander, who had to kill someone in Bosnia. He said it was like a girl losing her virginity: she will remember the first time but not likely the rest. In other words, he would often have flashbacks/nightmares about the first person killed, but the rest don't register.
The normal psychological reaction is generally for humans not to kill his/her own species; that is why so much training is required prior to being "combat ready." In many animals this reflex is very pronounced; tigers, lions and wolves can have vicious fights over a mate, but when one goes into a vulnerable position to signal surrender, the attacker accepts victory but lets the defeated individual moves on and leaves the tribe. With humans the power of this instinct has been diminished particularly with weapons. That is a major criteria for SOF, previous combat experience, and having killed being an unwritten requirement.
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So how did you feel afterwards Derwyvern? Were you able to write it off, or was there some odd feelings over it? I guess I should ask that to anyone who has been in that situation, as I'm sure also Ben & Barry and a few others have.
Odd thoughts to start with, but anger when I got back & found that my upper left trapezius muscle had nearly been shot in half by a 7.62 round. In the after thoughts & during the briefing I couldn't remember having anyone in my sights, but have to admit that was to the shock of being hit & not firing at a live target.
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Never happened to me yet, although I have only been operational in NI, and thats not the place that it was 20 years ago. But I suppose it's bound to happen at some point, been in for approaching five, but the bastards only count from your 18th birthday so although I signed the dotted line at 15 and am now approaching 21 I have only completed 2 1/2 years of my service
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If you buy BATCO a beer he might tell you what is was like serving under Wellington.
Odd thoughts to start with, but anger when I got back & found that my upper left trapezius muscle had nearly been shot in half by a 7.62 round.
Christ...was this in NI or Iraq?
The American Marine Division has the highest combat effectiveness in the American armed forces. It seems not enough for our four divisions to surround and annihilate its two regiments.
---Mao Tse Sung to General Song, prior to Chosin Reservoir
This message has been edited by Gyrene on Mar 30, 2004 8:42 AM
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On the 8th day God created Ben-Britain and he took over!
"when I get home people'll ask me,'hey Hoot, why do ya do it man? Why? Just some war junkie?' Ya know what I'll say? I won't say a goddamn word. Why? They won't understand. They won't understand why we do it. They won't understand it's about the man next to you, and that's it. That's all it is."
SGT 1st Class Norman Hooten
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It was in the Balkans in 94. I still suffer quite badly from it. I first thought it was sweat until I put my hand to the tear, then I thought I snagged it on a branch or some gorse.
@ Ben
I may outrank you upon your return, but you outpace me in th erace to retirement
This message has been edited by BATCO_Barry on Mar 31, 2004 10:18 PM This message has been edited by BATCO_Barry on Mar 31, 2004 10:07 PM
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Yes,either PDF regulars or Panamanian irregulars(punks).Exchanged a few volleys at a check-point;I'm not quite sure if I personally,hit one of them ,but there were 3 killed I think,we didn't know if they were PDF(I think they were,a LT said no)because alot of them took their uniforms off when the US invaded.
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3 stripes just means you have a PHD in kissing a*se LOL
On the 8th day God created Ben-Britain and he took over!
"when I get home people'll ask me,'hey Hoot, why do ya do it man? Why? Just some war junkie?' Ya know what I'll say? I won't say a goddamn word. Why? They won't understand. They won't understand why we do it. They won't understand it's about the man next to you, and that's it. That's all it is."
SGT 1st Class Norman Hooten
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Unfortunately now I can say that I have on quite a few occasions.
The first time I knew that I had actually killed someone a van came speeding towards us in Fallujah at a high rate of speed, and was met with a hail of bullets. It careened off to the side of the road and hit a wall, the passengers jumping out. (the driver was slumped dead over the steering wheel)
I had been caught between changing magazines when the vehicle approached, so I dropped to a knee and pulled my pistol out of the holster. I was aiming right at the passenger side where a man was stepping out wielding an assault rifle. We were no more than 10 feet from one another...I squeezed off four rounds and he collapsed. The others that had gotten out of the van were also gunned down immediately by other Marines.
At first I didn't feel anything but the adrenalin rush. When that van came speeding towards us I thought for sure it was going to explode, and it was real close. So I felt more glad that myself and none of my Marines were hurt than anything else. After that it was a little weird, especially since it was at such close range and it looked like we were looking at each other in the eye when I killed him. But I think you rationalize it...he would have killed me or one of my Marines just as quickly had he the chance.
The only thing that lingered on my mind was wonderin what they were trying to accomplish by coming at us like they did. The van wasn't rigged with any explosives.
The American Marine Division has the highest combat effectiveness in the American armed forces. It seems not enough for our four divisions to surround and annihilate its two regiments.
---Mao Tse Sung to General Song, prior to Chosin Reservoir
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I know this might sound silly, but i hope to experiance some war. For now ive just joined the irish reserves, but i hope to do an army cadetship.
But i would feel terrible if i had to shoot people in a forgein country. Not because it would turn me off my food, nah no way, but because i would feel like i was oppressing the nation. I would feel like a british person who oppres my fellow irishmen in northern ireland, our i would feel like an American soilder killing an indian on his home land.
the second reason i would hate to kill, is because the one of gods commandments is ''thou shalt not kill'', i am a holy person, and a very moral person.
I would kill a brit without hesitation though. But i know that isent a strenght, wanting to murder someone is a weakness....
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Yes, as my post obviously hinted haha. Im very very fresh to the military, that post was just some things that i had on my mind about killing someone, but im very content on staying in the army. Its kill or be killed i suppose...
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is because the one of gods commandments is ''thou shalt not kill'', i am a holy person, and a very moral person."
Actually it's "thou shalt not murder" always mistranslated
"I would kill a brit without hesitation though. But i know that isent a strenght, wanting to murder someone is a weakness...."
would you really now...if you have that kind of mindset then the Irish defence forces are not for you, we train with them quite a bit, there are alot of Irishmen in the British military too
Fair winds......
Dauntless sons of Celtic sires
Whose souls the love of freedom fires,
Hark! ev'ry harp to war inspires
On Cader Idris side.
See the brave advancing,
See the brave advancing,
Each well-tried spear
Which Saxons fear,
In warlike splendour glancing.
Proud Harlech from her frowning tow'rs
Pours forth her never failing pow'rs.
Rouse, heroes, glory shall be ours,
March on, your country's pride!
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People in brit army aint really irish, there of english decent, and call themselves irish)
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November 1 2007, 4:12 PM
Well i would yes kill a brit in two seconds. Your not irish, so you probly dont have the same hatred towards brits that has been instilled in us irish people for 800 years. There is a grudge and hatred between english and irish.
No there are no irish in the british army. You are speaking of the ''unionists'' who are born in northern ireland (rarely souhtern ireland) and they want to be apart of britiain, that is why there has been a war up there (and still is but media has censeored it) going oj ebtween nationalist and unionists. Even though unionists call themselves irish, but even though they spit in the face of our hero's, muder or people, etc etc the list goes on. As the saying goes ''just because your born in a stable, it doesent make you a horse''.
So no actualy, there is no irish in the british army. There used to be in the 40's/80's because of lack of any jobs, and they were conscripted years before that. In which the same men went on to revolt against brits.
Some are half english/irish and join the brit army. The fact is, the irish army is well better trained and professional, the british army is just better equiped.
Dont be fooled by traitors who join the british army, for they are not british and go against everything irish people for the last 800 years believe. Our land was taken from us irish and handed over to the brits who were sent over to replace irish popualtion, in the 16th 17th 18th centuary's, while the actualy irish people were slaved, murdered, and refused help when millions died in famine's, they brought out laws against use also. Remember, they say there irish but there ANYTHING BUT IRISH.
Also, thanks for the poem you have added' it's excellant, i have never seen it before.
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Well i would yes kill a brit in two seconds. Your not irish, so you probly dont have the same hatred towards brits that has been instilled in us irish people for 800 years. There is a grudge and hatred between english and irish."
I'm not Irish?....news to me, let me check, Born in the Republic?...check, grew up there?...check...still live there?...check, in the IDF here?....check
No there isn't a grudge instilled in us, who put this ****e in your head? thats some medievil bull**** you'd get in the Balkans or the Middle East, we fought them they fought us, were they nasty to us yes, were we nasty back yes, you make us sound like either we're pathologically psychotic killers or worse ****ing redneck gombeens unable to come out of the past.
"No there are no irish in the british army. You are speaking of the ''unionists'' who are born in northern ireland (rarely souhtern ireland) and they want to be apart of britiain, that is why there has been a war up there (and still is but media has censeored it) going oj ebtween nationalist and unionists. Even though unionists call themselves irish, but even though they spit in the face of our hero's, muder or people, etc etc the list goes on. As the saying goes ''just because your born in a stable, it doesent make you a horse''."
More Bull****, there are more Southern Irish in the Britsh forces then there are in the PDF at home
"So no actualy, there is no irish in the british army. There used to be in the 40's/80's because of lack of any jobs, and they were conscripted years before that. In which the same men went on to revolt against brits.
Some are half english/irish and join the brit army. The fact is, the irish army is well better trained and professional, the british army is just better equiped.
Dont be fooled by traitors who join the british army, for they are not british and go against everything irish people for the last 800 years believe. Our land was taken from us irish and handed over to the brits who were sent over to replace irish popualtion, in the 16th 17th 18th centuary's, while the actualy irish people were slaved, murdered, and refused help when millions died in famine's, they brought out laws against use also. Remember, they say there irish but there ANYTHING BUT IRISH.
Also, thanks for the poem you have added' it's excellant, i have never seen it before."
Ok I don't know whether you got your history from a suger packet or what, but no the Irish from the Republic lads in the British military are not traitors, they joined because they wanted to be in a military that does miltary things, there are very few oppertunities to be a soldier in the PDF, except the wing, just like men join the foreign legion or Irish lads join the US military, and frankly if you called any of them triators to their face you'd be paying an extended visit to the intensive care ward
BTW the Brits didn't invade Ireland at the start, we in our infinite stupidity invited them in to help settle the inter clan wars we were fihting among ourselves....
Fair winds......
Dauntless sons of Celtic sires
Whose souls the love of freedom fires,
Hark! ev'ry harp to war inspires
On Cader Idris side.
See the brave advancing,
See the brave advancing,
Each well-tried spear
Which Saxons fear,
In warlike splendour glancing.
Proud Harlech from her frowning tow'rs
Pours forth her never failing pow'rs.
Rouse, heroes, glory shall be ours,
March on, your country's pride!
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I'm just going to cut you some slack for being a kid....
Fair winds......
Dauntless sons of Celtic sires
Whose souls the love of freedom fires,
Hark! ev'ry harp to war inspires
On Cader Idris side.
See the brave advancing,
See the brave advancing,
Each well-tried spear
Which Saxons fear,
In warlike splendour glancing.
Proud Harlech from her frowning tow'rs
Pours forth her never failing pow'rs.
Rouse, heroes, glory shall be ours,
March on, your country's pride!
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Current Topic - Have any of you ever fired on human targets?
I still think about it often. It helps a bit knowing that you saved a lot of civilians that were being shoot at. I expecialy remember a little girl that got shoot in the leg in the middle of the road and coulnt move, she would have been overrun by the van had the driver not been hit.
