trooper i started my bmq a month ago, and its hard as hell. anyways i have come across a problem. in my section everyone of the soldiers are from rural neihbourhoods andtheir parents were in the army, or they're hardcoree fanatics. for example when they gave us our c-7's they all knew the names of all the parts, and i had to go home and study to catch up. and when they were teaching us some of the drills, one of the corporals took me aside to yell at me for some sh1t so i missed some of the important drills and i'm falling behind. so i was wondering is it possible to get some manuals or books so i could study what i need to know ahead of time, suz im starting to fall behind.

remember allways

they are just as ****ing stupid as you are and dont let the bastards grind you down.




here s a m16/c7 taken apart.


remember

gas operated rife

580 to point 800 to area

3534 meters.

you are only as bad as your last day if your last day you were behind, tomorrow you can be ahead.

underneath the sling is called a reciever.


when you shoot

hold the weapon tight slow even breaths when you fire about half a second after your last breath shoot.

if you cant get your breathing down correctly just concentrate on

Not shooting untill all the recoil of your weapon is finished, and your back tight and with a good sight picture.


your bullet goes

exactly where the tip of the top of your front sight lines up with the rear sight hole.

actually comrade abdullah we have the c-7 and its got a scope, and that's not even the problem. my problem is that i got put into a hick section, and our section commander realy hates me, and for some reason i keep fvckin up around him cuz i get nervous, i was ok beofore he got put in our section. im the only guy that's not white and the fvker really gives me a hardtime. its getting pretty depressing

kaveh are you in the regular army or the reserves?

and what on earth made you join the Canadian army. No offence, but the average soldier is a rural hick. A majority of the enlisted ppl only join because they have NOTHING else to do with their sad lives. Id never join the Canadian army. (And I speak after talking to officers and ppl that work within the army). If you are an ethnic officer your chance of reaching the top levels of the military are NIL.

im in the reserves, the reason i joined is cuz i love the army life, the discipline and physical training. i would have joined iran's army but i really don't feel like going to war against the US. which army are you in BarbaMitso?

what is your email kaveh?

c7= m16

Im in no army. I went to Greece and served 5 yrs ago. Id never serve in the canadian forces. Ive heard too many redneck stories. Whats the training like in the reserves?

If you're a reserve they can ship you to afghanistan, no?

the reserves surprisingly has a pretty tough training schedule, theres alot of punishment(messing up and have to do pushups), the physical training is ok but the drills are brutal, sometimes we have to stand for 5*40 minute periods with the c7 doing constant drill (that **** gets heavy) with 2-3 minute breaks in between to piss and drink, then classroom and all over again. also we barely sleep. they let us go to bed at 12 if we're good, usually 1-1:30 and they wake us up between 4:30-5:00 am and the day starts over, yes you could get forced to go to afghanistan or some other place, they have the power to force you, but its volunteer based because there is no shortage of volunteers and you have to be in it for a while so you're good, its not like the US where they just send em over. i was really surprised at the difficulty i thought the reserves would be easy but iwas wrong.

if you really are finding life difficult than i can give you a few tips

1 no matter how late you go to sleep , have a shower , change your
underware and go to sleep clean , it will make you feel good.
as for the shooting if that bothers you , learn to take the strap
and tighten it round your elbow , this will make it steadier
than as for breathing , try until u find whats working for u
and last if you are not happy change eye and sholder,

the real strain in the army is mental not physical

good luck pindown

There isn't a set time you sleep at?

In the Greek army the time to go to sleep is set.

But the rest of the stuff (conditions) are standard army in most countries. We had bad food, no warm water to shower, 15 guys to a room, pushups, running etc etc And all the time officers yelling at us like mad. When it's all over the sense of accomplishment is worth it. Shooting was actually the best part of basic training. Mind you cleaning G-3's is a pain in the arse after.

you guys ue g-3 too? just like iran's army, i heard that rifles heavy. and ya i hate cleaning the c7 too, the stuff they give us to clean it with really worries me, some people say its really toxic. and our food is really good but they say that all changes once the basic training is over, one thing tho you got to serve with fellow greeks, and you were treated as equals no matter how badly im in a rural section and im stuck with with a bunch of rural soldiers with rural commanders who keep singling me out. but im not gonna quit the harder the better, more of an achievement

I didn't find the G-3's to be heavy. And they don't have much recoil when fired. A shotgun "kicks" alot more than a G-3. IIn Greece they are replacing all the G-3's though.

Oh in the Greek army there were some serious villagers. Coming from a big north american city living with some of these ppl was a total shock. But in the end it's worth it. Just stick it out man. The main thing is to do what your told and follow orders. If officers see you are a good soldier they will warm up to you over time.

BarbaMitso, you have a rather warped view of the Canadian Forces. I can assure you, as a serving member, the stories you heard about the CF being a "redneck army" are not true. But I am not here to change your opinion. Our professionalism and global track record speak for themselves.

kaveh, if you are really having that much of a hard time grasping the pieces of the C7, maybe try talking with your section commander or section 2IC and let them know. They should be able to help you out with the problems you are having. Either that, or during your down time, ask one of your section buddies.

As for the different pieces and what not, your course staff should have given you hand outs with pictures and descriptions of all the components that make up the C7. If they have not (and I would be surprised if they didn't) simply put the request in to get them.

Where are you doing your training by the way?

Trooper, don't get me wrong. I have defended the Canadian forces in the Middle East forum many times.

I have never questioned the professional nature, skill, or dedication of the ppl serving in the Canadian armed forces.

But, I know for a fact that "ethnics" have a hard time. Especially when it comes to promotions. A person named Smith, Brown or having a french surname stands a wwaaaaayyy better chance of being promoted than someone with a long Greek, Sri Lankan, or Iranian surname.

The Canadian Forces (like any organization) are not 100% meritocratic and are no place for someone like me.

[But, I know for a fact that "ethnics" have a hard time. Especially when it comes to promotions. A person named Smith, Brown or having a french surname stands a wwaaaaayyy better chance of being promoted than someone with a long Greek, Sri Lankan, or Iranian surname.]


-Well, I'm not sure where your "facts" come from then. The CF has a policy called SHARP (Standards for Harrassment and Racism Prevention) that they follow like gospel. Reserve units in major cities actually have a lot of ethnic individuals.

The CF also has a quota of ethnic individuals that they have to recruit (as dumb as that sounds) per year.

You might want to check where you get your "facts" from again. They are obviously wrong.

And promotion has nothing to do with your name, or color of your skin. It has to do with whether or not you are a switched on soldier. Plain and simple.

Also, you say you know for a fact. Where are you getting these "facts" from?

I would suggest you change your source because they either 1) Are just a bag in the army and will never get promoted, and try to blame their ethnic background, or 2) They are just plain lieing.

Over the course of my military career, I have seen many ethnic individuals get promoted. Like I said, if you're switched on, you will get noticed and get the oppritunities for courses and promotion. If you are a bag, you won't get anything, regardless of race, name, height, weight, skin color, pimples, frekles, blond hair, black hair, green hair, no hair, etc etc...

trooper, I don't expect you to do anything but "tow the line".

Canada is not nearly as meritocratic as the US is.

In Canada the "levers of power", be they economic or political are firmly in the hands of the anglo-saxons and francophones.

Please don't tell me racism against ethnics isnt institutionalized in the police services, armed forces, and CSIS. They have set these quotos to try and change things. But this change will take a looong time.


I will never forget during the leadership convention for the Ontario Liberal Party when McGuinty won over a candidate with an Italian surname.

A high ranking Liberal Cabinet Minister "anonymously" said to the Toronto Star that:

"The Liberal Party and Ontario are not ready for an ethnic leader".

That sums up Canada for me.

There wouldn't be "quotas" if there wasnt "racism".

[Canada is not nearly as meritocratic as the US is.]

-Ok well, I beg to differ. I have seen quite the opposite in my 25 years in this country, and my time served in the armed forces. Heck, I myself are of Italian decent...My last name barely fits on my name tag...I have had no qualms with anyone over it.



[In Canada the "levers of power", be they economic or political are firmly in the hands of the anglo-saxons and francophones.]

-The same can be said about the US (the the exception of francophones)...what's your point?


[Please don't tell me racism against ethnics isnt institutionalized in the police services, armed forces, and CSIS. They have set these quotos to try and change things. But this change will take a looong time.]

-The US has the exact same thing to prevent this kind of racism within their departments. It's called affirmative action. Stop acting like your **** don't stink. For everything you can say about Canada, the same can be said about the US.


["The Liberal Party and Ontario are not ready for an ethnic leader".]

-Well, thats childs play considering if a minority leader was ever elected within the Republican or Democratic party in the US, there would be riots and assassination attempts...

The fact is, Canada enjoys a more culturally diverse society that that of the US. THis country is mot plagued by racism in the way the US is. Plain and simple.

"Well, thats childs play considering if a minority leader was ever elected within the Republican or Democratic party in the US, there would be riots and assassination attempts..."

When I say "ethnic" I don't mean black or mexican, I mean non WASPs. Michael Dukakis (who is as Greek as can be) ran for President. He lost because he was an idiot, not because he was an ethnic Greek. That NEVER came up in the campaign. There were NO riots, NO assassinations. In Canada, commercially the opportunities for Greeks have been the same as the US but in certain areas there are glass ceilings.

Look at the US:

John Negroponte (head of National Intelligence) is a Greek
George Tenet (former CIA Chief - another Greek

They weren't even born in the US.

How many heads of CSIS have been non anglo or non french? ZERO.

There has only been one nonWASP head of a major Canadian bank.

I really don't think you understand how Canada runs.

[I really don't think you understand how Canada runs.]

-The way the military promotion system is has nothing to do with the political system and how electorates are selected or their deciding factors.

You are changing the subject. The fact still remains, the military doesn't look at race, name, color etc etc. If you are a good soldier, you will get the oppritunity to advance your military career. If you are a bag, you won't. It's as simple as that.

[How many heads of CSIS have been non anglo or non french? ZERO.]

-Well, how many heads of the CIA have been non white?

I'm not changing any sibject.

This is my point: there is endemic and systematic racism in ALL Canadian Institutions, including the military.

Are you trying to tell me the military is some sort of an exception and beacon of equality? I don't buy it.

Look at the list of Generals and tell me how many are non anglo or french. And after the rank of Colonel the promotions are POLITICAL. This is the case in EVERY army in the world.

And I clearly said "ethnics" not non whites. Canada, and its army, is run by anglo saxons and french and they are very slow to give up the levers of power.

I remember when Donovan Bailey said systematic racism exists in Canada during an Sports Illustrated interview and the holier than thou Canadians got upset.


Trooper what is the chance we'll see a non-anglo or francophone RUN for Prime Minister let alone become Prime Minister?

[This is my point: there is endemic and systematic racism in ALL Canadian Institutions, including the military.

Are you trying to tell me the military is some sort of an exception and beacon of equality? I don't buy it.]


-No. I am more than certain there is descrimination in the Canadian Forces in some areas. Every military suffers from that. To single out the CF as a "redneck racist army" as you initially did is completely wrong.

The fact is, Canada enjoys a prodominately tolerant, multi-cultural armed forces.



[Trooper what is the chance we'll see a non-anglo or francophone RUN for Prime Minister let alone become Prime Minister?]

-About the same chance of a non white running for President in the US...

Trooper what is the chance we'll see a non-anglo or francophone RUN for Prime Minister let alone become Prime Minister?]

-About the same chance of a non white running for President in the US...
-----------

I agree.

But according to this logic:

- in the US only ppl of colour cant become. So blacks and Mexicans.

- whereas in Canada ppl of colour AND "ethnics" like Italians and Greeks can't run for PM.

Thus, Canada discriminates against more groups of ppl.

Like I said, you aren't a "full" Canadian unless you are anglo or french.

Regardless...that has nothing to do with the military, as you claim, being "racist hicks"..

"but the average soldier is a rural hick"

I said the average soldier is a "rural hick". That is the same for any army. And I stand by that. The majority of ppl that serve in the Canadian army as enlisted ppl are ppl that have NOTHING else going for them in life. And this I've been told by Officers.


trooper, you really haven't disproven ANYTHING I've said.

[trooper, you really haven't disproven ANYTHING I've said.]

-Sure I have. You clearly stated that those of ethnic background have no chance for advancement. My personal experience tells otherwise.

The next thing you will ask is, how many ethnic Generals do we have.

The simple answer is, none for the simple reason that the CF is not filled with ethnics.

It has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with numbers.

Well Greeks and Italians are pretty entreprenerial and successful businessmen.

I can't imagine why any Greek or Italian would join the Canadian Armed forces. It would be a waste for them.

Enlisting in the Canadian regular army is for ppl that have pretty much nothing else going for them in their lives. It's the same in most armies.


But yeah, the ZERO non anglo of french Generals (and Ministers of Defence) says alot to me.

[Enlisting in the Canadian regular army is for ppl that have pretty much nothing else going for them in their lives. It's the same in most armies.]

-That probably has to be one of the most warped things I ever heard someone say....on a SOLDIERS forum no less. Who is this guy anyway? I thought only confirmed soldiers could post here.

This guy is nothing but a joke.

On a side not, I am Italian, I have a nice long name. I have been promoted. I have a degree in IT, and am considering leaving the computer buisness to go Ref Force. It has nothing to do with "having nothing left in life" as you claim. I have a lot. I have a good high paying job, as well as a Reserve career which I am willing to leave because I like the military lifestyle.

This is something you don't seem to grasp.

People who have nothing in their lives go work at McDonalds or Burger King. People who enjoy dicipline, adventure and excitement join the military. Plain and simple.

No need for insults. This is just an internet forum.

I served in the Greek army. You may consider serving in the Greek army a "joke" if you like.

Most soldiers in the world and in here were drafted or served in a conscript based army. That's what I did.

Since this is an internet forum I am voicing my opinion.

And my opinion is, if anyone enlists in armies like the Canadian or US there is a high probability they did so because they had very little else to do. Or because as you said they wanted some discipline. But those sorts of ppl would join the marines for like 3 or 5 yrs.

The US army has a high percentage of ppl from the lower end of society. What makes you think the Canadian is any different?

Serving as an officer is different.

[they did so because they had very little else to do.]

-Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. People who have little else to do, work at Burger King. People who want more in life, and want to travel the world, make a difference and serve their country, join the armed forces.

It's not like the old days where the high school drop outs, and 7th grade education bums join the army.

Much has changed in Canada. Many NCM's in the army have college educations, but chose to serve their country.

Trooper, fair enough.

I have a question for you though. How on earth are the troops in Afghanistan serving Canada? Do they really have to be there?

And would you consider the missions in Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Cyprus etc as serving Canada? How?

Do I see them as serving Canada in the short term? No.

Do I see them serving Canada in the long term? Yes.

The missions in Bosnia turned a war zone into stability today. It may be fragile stability, but it is much better than it was in the early 90's.

A stable Bosnia helps make a stable Balkans. Canada's operations don't always have to benefit Canada.

Our country is fortunate enough to be one of the most rich in the world. Using that wealth to help others and bring peace in trouble spots in the world, helps to increase Canada's role and influence on the world. This can definitely benefit Canada economically and socially.

The mission in Afghanistan, again, is not to invade, occupy and kill the people, but rather to help those who want to help themselves and bring stability to the country.

If you look at Kabul pre-9/11 and look at it now, you will see that the capitol has made leaps and bounds in terms of progress and quality of life.

This in turn increases Canada's influence in south East Asia.

Not everything has to have a direct monetary benefit. The fact that we helped these people is benefit enough to keep putting on the uniform every day.

"The mission in Afghanistan, again, is not to invade, occupy and kill the people, but rather to help those who want to help themselves and bring stability to the country."
---------------------------------------------
That is where I disagree. The "mission" in Afghanistan is one of war. Canada is at war. Rick Hillier even said the Canadian troops would be going after insurgents to "kill and destroy them".

Trooper, here's the problem I have:

How long will we be in Afghanistan?

Can we really stabilize a country made up of so many ethnic groups that have been tribal and islamic for so many years?

Once we pull out, won't it all fall back?

I personally think Afghanistan is a lost cause. It's noble what Canada is trying to do there. But it pains me to think little kids are losing their fathers in a foreign land, for what in the long term will be a lost cause.

Trooper, did you support Canadian troops going to Iraq?

Canadian troops didn't go to Iraq.

I know Canada didn't send any troops to Iraq. But the Conservative Party and alot of ppl in the military wanted to participate. My question trooper was do you think Canada should have sent military personal and been involved in the invasion of Iraq? Canada sat it out, but should it have participated?

I should have phrased the question better.

No. I did not support sending troops to Iraq. We were already commited to Afghanistan, so we did not have the resources for two campaigns in two different countries.

If Canada did have the resources, what would you have said?

Hey trooper, what part of the forces were you in? Infantry? Mechanized?

Had Canada had the resources, I still would not support it. There are bigger fish to fry in the world, and Saddam wasn't even strong enough to be a threat to his neighbors, let alone the USA. I never really bought it.

And I am in Armoured Reconnaissance.

"Had Canada had the resources, I still would not support it. There are bigger fish to fry in the world, and Saddam wasn't even strong enough to be a threat to his neighbors, let alone the USA. I never really bought it.

And I am in Armoured Reconnaissance."

I agree with you on Iraq. It's too bad our neighbours didn't see things the way ppl did in Canada.

What sort of vehicles do you use? Is it the Coyote?

trooper are you in Armoured Reconnaissance in toronto? i was thinking of transferring over, can you tell me a little about your job and your rank

[What sort of vehicles do you use? Is it the Coyote?]

-The reg force use the Coyote for Armoured Recce. I am in the reserves. We use the G-Wagon for recce.

[trooper are you in Armoured Reconnaissance in Toronto?]

-I'm in Montreal actually.

[i was thinking of transferring over]

-If you plan on going armoured recce in Toronto, check out the Queens York Rangers. A great bunch of guys. I did my trade training with them.

[can you tell me a little about your job and your rank]

-Our role is recce. We are the guys that go in first (I know there are others that like to claim that they're the first ones in, but they're not :p ) ahead of the main Echelon, and recce the terrain, enemy strength, and their movements. Armoured recce has MANY different roles and jobs.

We do route recce. This consists of doing recon of roadways and bridges (each have their own movement drills) for the main force.

We do OP's (Observation Posts) on enemy positions, and pass all Intel back to command.

We do convoy escorts. That's pretty self explanatory.

We do VIP escorts.

We do presence patrols. This is basically a recce patrol that is not meant to be stealth, but to rather show a presence.

We do foot recce patrols.

Armoured Recce is essentially the eyes and ears of the battlefield. Generals make their tactical decisions based on your Intel.

It's a very exciting job in the army. It required thinking and problem solving skills. It requires smart individuals. It is very mentally demanding. You can go days on very little sleep. Especially if you are observing an enemy position. Every bit of up to date Intel can mean the difference between those in command making the right battle plan, and making the wrong one.

If you have any other questions, just let me know.

i was interested in the whole behind enemy lines thing, like do they teach guerrilla warfare, how to survive in the wild, hand to hand combat, and things like that. or is that more of an infantry thing? and thanks for your info btw

No, they do not teach you guerilla warfare in recce. And no one in the army is taught hand to hand combat.

If you're looking for a run and gun trade, then recce is not for you.

If you put yourself into a situation where you have to fight, then you failed your mission.

The whole point of armoured recce is to be quiet and stealthy to obtain your information.

Fighting is a last resort, and usually only done when you have been seen and engaged.

it still sounds pretty interesting, i want to switch from my trade, but i don't want to go in to infantry cuz i would rather do something more interesting like armoured recce. how long is your trade course? what kind of exercises did you do, like how long were you in the field? is it the same length as sq? what is your primary weapon? do you guys use the c7 as well? do they let you use the c6 and c9 as well? what do you drive, how much driving do you normally do? anyways thank trooper im seriously considering switching, i might wait till im done my sq tho. btw have you done any extra exercises?

[how long is your trade course?]

-My trade course was a little over 5 weeks long. During the trade course, we learned about the armoured corps, we did off road driving, we did recce driving, we did blackout driving (driving at night with headlights on), we did convoy driving. We learned about hides and harbours (think of it as a Bivwack for infantry, only instead, its where all our vehicles are parked and cammed up for the night), we learned how to do Observation Posts. We did a communications course. We learned the 521 and the man pack. We did a lot of PT, ruck marcking, and we did the obstical course a few times.

It was a very interesting course.

[what kind of exercises did you do]

-When I go on exercises with my regiment, we do any number of things. We can do route recce, presence patrols, Observation Posts, recce foot patrols, convoy escorts, VIP escorts, etc etc.

[like how long were you in the field?]

-It depends on how long the exercise is. In armoured recce, you are always in the field, and usually scouting ahead of the main force.

[is it the same length as sq?]

-My trade course? No, it was longer than my SQ course.

[what is your primary weapon?]

-The C7

[do they let you use the c6 and c9 as well?]

-We use the C6, mounted on top of the vehicle.

[what do you drive]

-The Mercedes G-Wagon

[how much driving do you normally do?]

-It depends on whether or not you're a driver in the crew. A recce crew is made up of 3 people. The driver, the crew commander and the RadOp/Observer

[have you done any extra exercises?]

-What do you mean by "extra exercises"? I have been on MilCon twice, and went down to Camb Blanding in Florida for Exercise Kodiak Strike 2.

im definetely going to switch now. gonna wait till i finish my sq first. thanks alot man i really appreciate

No problem.

Also, which units are you currently training with, and what base are you at? If you're from TO, why is it you are doing training with troops from rural areas?

Hey kia4ever, how was your training? It's been awhile so I'm assuming your training is over and you're a qualified soldier by now.

Any word on deployment? I put my name in for a Roto in A-Stan. Hope to start my work up with an english brigade soon.

im not fully qualified, yet i got my sq done. but im going to be a weapons tech so the training is long and boring. hopefully by next year ill be fully qualified. i was actually thinking of switching to mp's. good luck in afghanistan. is it a 100%?

-----------------------------
Mighty Burma!!

kia, you're Iranian right?

I have a question for you (hypothetical of course). Let's say you're in the Canadian Forces and Canada joined an attack on Iran. What would you do?

to be honest with u i'd probably quit the army. if they forced me to fight id take the Military Prison or id move to a third country. i could never fight against Iran or Canada.

-----------------------------

I know what you mean. When you know two countries things get tricky.

just a personal question for my CF comrads

What percentail did you ppl score in the Aptitude test?

I got an 96 percentil but i asked to go into infentry anyway.

You're not talking about the Canadian military are you? After you do your CFAT (Canadian Forces Aptitude Test), they don't give you your score. Instead they tell you if you scored high enough for the trade you requested.

i never got my scores either.. all the person told me later on was that its pretty high, and i can pretty much do whatever i want.




Made in Pakistan: SSG Commandos, Ghauri 3 Nuclear Missile, Al-Khalid Tank & JF-17 Fighter Aircraft
"...He is a formidable person and I am glad that he is Pakistani not Egyptian..."
- Eizer Weizman, Chief Of Israeli Air Force during the six day war, commenting on Air Marshal Noor Khan (Commander PAF at that time)

werid cause this officer who interviewed me told me my "score". and suggested me to do some other trades or go to ROTP program. (i picked infentry).

u live in montreal by any chance?




Made in Pakistan: SSG Commandos, Ghauri 3 Nuclear Missile, Al-Khalid Tank & JF-17 Fighter Aircraft
"...He is a formidable person and I am glad that he is Pakistani not Egyptian..."
- Eizer Weizman, Chief Of Israeli Air Force during the six day war, commenting on Air Marshal Noor Khan (Commander PAF at that time)

nope edminton.

i never got my scores i just got an "everything" on the skills choices meaning i could pick whatever i wanted

-----------------------------

Jamal, when did you do your CFAT?

Also, extreme. I'm in Montreal. Which regiment are you joining? I'm in the RCH.

And kia4ever, How are you enjoying life at the Regiment? You had mentioned people picking on you on your BMQ (but looking at a previous thread, it seems they were pushing you because they expected more from you. Believe it or not, that's a good thing. They put stuff like that on your course reports, and although it seems like you're getting a lot of c0ck on course, it could set you up for a PLQ in the future a lot faster than other soldiers)

saskatoon recruting center.

well they didn't tell me the score at first. But after the interview i asked the officer who interviewed me and he just told me my percentile rank.

Now i'm on the process of applying to be a MP officer.

element7, im in the 712 communicaitons sqadron.

starting my applicaiton to become an officer. just finished my BMQ and SQ.




Made in Pakistan: SSG Commandos, Ghauri 3 Nuclear Missile, Al-Khalid Tank & JF-17 Fighter Aircraft
"...He is a formidable person and I am glad that he is Pakistani not Egyptian..."
- Eizer Weizman, Chief Of Israeli Air Force during the six day war, commenting on Air Marshal Noor Khan (Commander PAF at that time)