it comes up again and again and even if I repeat myself:
In a normal business environment there are several types of people who command large amounts of cash. There are the inherited funds like Mrs. Klatten, Mrs. Rausing, Mrs. Steinbruch to name just a few not so commonly known (of which there are quite a number), the self made men and women like Li Zse Lim and Zhang Li,Bradley Hughes and Mr. Kim, Mr. Takizaki and Mr. Sapp, the corrupt officials and head honchos of the "white powder trade" or whatever color it has and the guys who work with other peoples money; last not least there institutions.
As a general rule most have some liquid cash or very liquid portfolio to allow fast reactions, mostly 80% is invested in more or less fixed operated portfolios, some liquid but none immediately available. The availability percentage depends on the actual needs of a person or expenses to be covered. In detail the higher the wealth the less is the percentage of cash or immediate liquid portfolio parts. For people who deal in other peoples money and institutions that may be different but only dependent on the aggressive nature of a portfolio and certain specific interests, for example a raid on a company with a hostile take over or a "bear hug" or a forex raid on a currency.
The later we can usually leave alone, they are either institutions or operate for a sole transaction type and they know what they are doing or don't (in which case they are not around very long)
Some brokers I run into in this and other fori seem to have transactions running which consumate a minimum of 100 M USD or even some a minimum of 500 M USD, some even want an immediate commitment for 1 B USD or equivalent.
This would mean based on the average percentage that a possible investor for a 100 MUSD file would have a wealth of 500 M USD to 1 B USD, or for the 500 M USD files between 5 B and 10 B USD.
Now even without the Forbes list these people are pretty well known, in the industry what is also know is where that money is coming from and who has it in its accounts and all the whereabout. Not everyone lives in Skandinavia like the Wallenbergs but even less known to the public, they are people of standing and generally known to a banker. Indeed they even meet in some more or less private circles and have their advisor's and interest. They also are not from another planet, but have both of their feet firmly on the earth and in their respective communities. they know about ID theft and falsifications and banking security and tax structures and are generally very sophisticated or at least have sophisticated people around them. There may be the occasional special case but they know what they are doing.
So to expect someone like that to come out with a passport copy a proof of funds or some bank letter, even to expect a signature on a paper to some broker where they do not have control over where it goes, is pretty unlikely.
In that light why do people expect this still? Would you issue such papers if you had the money discussed above?
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You hit the nail right on the head with that post. My personal opinion is that these individuals that request these documents are scammers or have no idea what they are doing. Its just human nature to try and better yourself, so when these brokers see a transaction for Five Hundred Million dollars the dollar signs in there head's begin to spin. Then to complicate the situation they will lie about having any experience, which will usually create a broker chain leading no where.
I've been involved in transactions where a "direct" seller of financial instruments tried to use my companies POF to have the instrument issued. From some of these experiences I can just about advise anyone that companies that do indeed have sufficient funds to purchase instrument will not go to a broker working out of his home, they want substance from a large firm.
Some of the amounts are absolutely ridiculous as you said. Edward Jones Investments, one of the largest brokerages in the United States largest transaction for Treasury Strips of all time is One Hundred and Fifty Million Dollars; what does that tell you.
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Or, you get the funny ones like the infamous $9 Billion HSBC SBLC from Indonesia. You know, the oil barron with the HSBC account who somehow needs help obtaining a line of credit to enter a PPP with.
However, there is another side. I have access to a pile of tax credits that are obscene in value. Technically, if I cashed out, I could be in the FORBES list (with the IRS wanting a huge check from me
I've seen a few people with legit funds that exceed what you would expect from them.
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Just perhaps, not everybody is eager to hand a huge chunk of their income to the IRS and do something about that. Perhaps, the wise investors establish a "Blind Trust" and proceed accordingly. Earning a living as "an individual" is the poor man's way.
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Wilst I am simple broker for a security firm, I have even been approached by some of these parties to have my clients turned over and become clients of these opportunists. Whilst I am recently new to the company, their client base has been established for over 20 years, and someone wants them to hand them over because they say they cannot provide instruments without these clients moving allegiance. I cannot start to tell you the reaction of my superiors. They were not happy and have now adopted a get tough tactic on such opportunists.
Richard, like you, our adopted approach has been and will always be if you have something to sell, prove it once the offer is on the table the the onus is to prove the funds. It is like buying a house, you dont go to the realtor and get asked for your cash, you are shown the house, evaluate it and the cost then go to your bank and buy, principle to principle. I do not think I can put it more simple.
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A few days ago has received such papers, though didn't ask for them. It was applied as POF to fresh inquiry of some intermediatery HK firm for fancy volume of 1 mln per month of oil product with fancy target price per mt addressed to President of Rosneft. Allegedly issued by Bank of China, Beijin branch to the name of Mr. Pa....., copy of his passport applied, for amount of slightly under 1 bln mln USD. However, minor discrepancy was it's date -more older and no direct connection with company papers. The broker who provided it was not able to explain relation.
Has anybody seen them before?
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Michael P has been pushing these fakes all over the place. Currently based in Guangzhou he is attracting a lot of attention from the local authorities. Needless to say that BoC Compliance Departments have received numerous calls at many of their offices around the world on this.
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