I have been reading this and other forums for some weeks now. I was amazed at some of the offers being made on these forums and have decided to voice an opinion.



I had some recent bad experiences with these type of investments and simply wonder whether it is all a dream or if there is reality out there.



I was approached to enter one of these transactions. Requirements were, proof of funds, history of funds, client information sheet, a bank statement of no older than 5 days and a colour copy of my passport



I provided all this information and was invited to Zurich to meet with parties who could introduce me to a bank who would accommodate me.



I went to Zurich met in a hotel lobby by the lake. Having provided all the above information, I was then required to sign a contract before I could meet the bank. This contract required me to give 50 percent of my profits to the group introducing me to the bank a further 10 percent to the broker who brought me to the group. Thus leaving me with the risk of providing the capital and earning less than the introducing parties concerned, good deal, I thought not.

Failing on this offer, they then required a joint venture agreement with signature rights on the account. I declined immediately, felt they had wasted my time and an unnecessary journey,upped and walked away and obviously never brought to the bank. By the way, I did not pay the coffee bill and as I was walking out the door I turned back to see them arguing as to who was going to pay.

I was then approached by a second group, same requirements except that they offered to meet me in the bank. I provided all the documents and was invited to Germany to meet with Deutsche Bank. However in this case I was being offered 110 percent guarantee on my funds and a return of 10 percent per month. Or I could have a non-depletion account in Deutsche Bank with full assurances on my capital from the bank.

So off I went to Germany, met with the bank officers who where pleasant and polite. I was offered a new bank account and they went through their investment portfolio and what could be offered to me.


Surprise, there was no mention of the offers I had from the introducers. So I showed them my emails and recent correspondences of offers of 110 guarantee of my capital etc etc. Their respond sadly, is not printable.

They went on to tell me that these types of offers are out in the marketplace in their millions. They told me they simply do not exist and that I was lucky in that I did not pay fees to these non qualified brokers. I asked about the non-depletion account, answer was, it is only non-depletion when you put your money in the account and simply do not withdraw. In other words such account did not exist within Deutsche bank.

I left disappointed and dismayed. More than that, I was astounded that the introducers, whom the bank knew by the way and spoke highly of, could propose something that the bank claim they simply don't offer. What the bank did offer was a bond for my money with 8percent per annum interest guaranteed. No participation,no onward profit, simply hand my money over to the bank and cash in their bond in 1 years time and earn 8 percent. I can get that in most banks without the need for a bond or handing over my money.

Aside from that can someone one please explain the point to me why brokers would offer something that doesn't exist? They made no money from me, so what was to gain for them?

I discussed this with the brokers and they simply said their paperwork from the bank clearly advised them of the offer and that they acted in good faith.

Like many other investors I have read about and studied the pitfalls and scams surrounding the finance world. I am not interested in the crazy world of buying Medium terms notes, so called trade programs offering high profits and high risk. We have, in my opinion, over the past few days seen the end of the Hedge fund opportunity.

I simply, like all investors with money, wanted a better than average return on my money. Something based on bank performance and something where I could talk freely to the bank concerned. I was prepared to look and see. Security of my capital wasand is my biggest concern. I had no problem paying a broker for a job well done. In fairness to the brokers who brought me to Deutsche Bank they introduced me to a private bank in Zurich where I placed my funds and now earn 2.75 percent per month. I do know that there is better out there but getting access and not being ripped off seems to be a major problem.

The amount we had to invest was 35million euros. I will still look to achieve a better return, who doesn't? That is what investment is all about, achieve the best return for your money at all times.

So is this world of investment discussed so often on these forums really dreamland or does it exist. How many other readers of the forum have encountered similar experiences.


A good friend of mine told me when I attempted to invest in this minefield,

a)do not give any signature control partial or otherwise on funds,
b)do not sign any joint ventures without having a lawyer go through the contract to make there are no pitfalls
c)never pay an upfront fee, unless it is direct to a bank
d) make sure before paying that the fee is for a bank service and not destined to a private account.

Yes, but not through joker brokers, who you seem to have dealt with, even though they found you 2.75% per month.

And the returns aren't 1000% per week either, as quoted by some joker brokers.

Other people on this forum have good insight.

- Usually a Jv is not required.

- You have to be extremely sure to know the contact with whom you are dealing with.
You have to check all the names involved and do the due diligence.

- The agreement is always shown in the Bank (sometime a draft can be sent principal to principal to be discussed with lawyer)

If you take the time to contact me directly, off board, I will take the time to explain.

This is what happens when greed (the brokers) and inexperience (the investor) come into play.

I wonder what the other brokers are going to tell to the original poster.

Do these contracts exist? I will keep the answer to myself.

Good luck.

Trb

Hey frustrated, if you run with these two jokers, based on their posts you will be back as evenmorefrustrated investor.

Welcome to the real world. count yourself lucky you didnt lose fees. Like the coffee story, a lot of us should adopt that stance, being a major drop in coffee sales worldwide should investors do likewise.

Haven't made the rounds in Switzerland coffee shops for a while, I thought that the routine described was outdated for decades, they still do this???? I guess the Swiss do not interfere because it keeps the economy running.

Having worked in wealth management and asset management for a number of years, it still surprises me to hear of people paying upfront fees!!!!!! Why would you pay???

It also surprises me that someone with 35mio to invest listens to such introducers!!

I do not know where you got that impression. Read my note correctly. I refused to pay fees, coffee and anything else they wished to put in front of me.

Only one set of brokers I met, I would call ungenuine. the second group brought me to a bank, but this time it was the offer that was not available. However I will always pay for a job well done. Different that paying upfront fees.



As for looking for better investments, we all search such markets, do you not mr, Kid, whether it is wil 10,000 euros or 100million euros. I read you searching here for FX business. What is the difference, FX, Investment opportunity, or any other business? So if it is good enough for you why not me?

Just read the nonsense on this forum re gold. I can confirm to you that very few banks will deal with non owners and one comment I read from Mr. Ludwig sums it all up. Walk into a bank with the wrong credentials and insufficient paperwork you will be taken out in chains. That is why they peddle their fools gold here or on other forums.

I have been to a bank re FX trading and investigated the possibility of such a venture suiting my needs. There were too many risks, no security but most of all a lack of support from the bank/platform once I used a third party trader. Based on that I considered it important I that I be introduced to a trader who was regulated and employed by the bank/Platform offering the trade. They always advised me trade the account yourself. That is the only way you stay in control. Sorry but is like having hens and laying the eggs yourself. I didn't like what was on offer from the bank and moved on.

Hi frustrated



Sorry, you misunderstand my point. I was meaning why would "anyone" ever pay upfront fees? It wasn't directed at you.



Also, I'm not here to search for any type of investment of business. I'm interested to see Noa's proposal, but I'm pretty sure it won't work. Talented FX traders who develop their own trading systems are snapped up by prop desks or hedge funds.



My main line of business is the creation and trading of derrivative based structures, mainly with an element of capital protection. I'm happy to show you some examples if you feel that these may be of interest to you.

**Aside from that can someone one please explain the point to me why brokers would offer something that doesn't exist? They made no money from me, so what was to gain for them?**

Because most people do not perform enough due diligence, repeat what others state to them as actual fact, or worse, just generally make stuff up.

Most brokers have no idea if the deals actually exist or not.

A few months back, I posted a link to someone claiming they had $200 Billion in BOE's that were supposedly from the settlement of a civil rights verdict in Georgia. Think about that one.....the largest settlement ever that was mysteriously never announced to the public? A simple phone call verified that no such case even existed in Georgia.

Someone with decent credentials once introduced me to $6 Billion in tax credits. The tax certificate looked real, the person working with the credits is in an actual position to control such a large amount, yet the person who owned the credits turned out to be a slime. A guy claiming to have billions in tax credits bounces a $10 Million donation to Southern University.

Yet, people still pass these credits around monthly.

Or my favorite, a few years back, I had a deal with Morgan Joseph Investment Bank on a large project. These guys had my business plan in hand. About 2 months later, MJIB is contacted by a party claiming they are in need of funding....on my project...and these clowns produce an altered version of my business plan.

I had some moron from London once try to sell me the "Sahara Beach Hotel" in Las Vegas....months after Sam Nazarian had signed his original LOI to purchase the casino.

It's the power of making a commission that causes some people to just pass around "deals" regardless of whether they exist or not.

Mr. Kid could you please send me details of your kind offer for me to consider over the holiday period.

Reknab, I notice no one took up your offer of discussions re these types of JV contracts.

Frankly I am not surprised because I find the post enlightening and probably what most investors have sat through.

Brokers cannot deal with such a hard hitting post aimed at their behaviour. As for discussing contracts with lawyers. Any lawyer worth their salt would tell you not bother travelling. Most brokers are simply trying to become rich on someone else's money and price themselves out of the investment.


RL the coffee shop business in Switzerland is booming, too expensive in the hotels these days. Hey take into account the value now of the Swiss franc and man how the price has increased.

If Switzerland sales ever drop, we may end up having to scrape together a rescue package for Brazil.

Don, be a man and post your solutions here so we can all read, what has a man from Tennessee got to hide. Perhaps you are no Davy Crockett

Frustratedinvestor,

Least you are getting 2.75% monthly, better than what Madoff offered.

By simply posting here, you have invited Wannabees to try to get to you.

On the other hand, ( no offence meant ) you may be phishing and by

benchmarking $35,000,000.00 Euros at 2.75% monthly, you hope anyone who now

solicites your attention, has to do better.

Guys, a sword can cut two ways and do read between the lines.

Frustratedinvestor, sorry for making the above statement, but in this day

and age, one can be open and yet closed, and it is about interpretation.

will

Mr.Will I clearly stated I was looking for better returns. I did not hide this fact as you seem to believe. I am happy with my current interest earnings but am greedy and would like a better return if possible. Are you saying this is not possible and that better returns are not out there in the marketplace and if so on what basis?

As to inviting wannabees, it is quite clear in my post that wannabees, should they try, would have to be able to prove what they have or they are wasting their time and will run up travel and coffee costs, because this time they would have to travel to me. So there is no two edged swords as you seem to believe.

However by your comments it is clear to me, and your recent posts on another subject, that you appear be on the edge of the banking business and not strictly within. Perhaps that is by choice and not design. Sometimes it is better to be looking through 2 doors than locked behind one.

However well your advice to the forum is meant, I notice you fail to deal with the question of whether this business is dreamland or fantasy. Any particular reason? You quote the 2.75% return in reference to an alleged Ponzi scheme, mine is direct from a bank. I do not think that comment was warranted. I detracted from your point. You made no reference to the existence of such a return because reading between your lines, you know this figure and I assume you know the bank concerned.

Finally, I hope Mr. Will that you do not decry my efforts to make a better return for my money, surely that is why you are in the finance business. Surely that is why every investor is in the finance business. Show me someone who states different and I will show you a liar.

Frustrated Investor,

I do not decry your efforts and feel that profits are very necessary while

reducing risks.

Your blunt attitude is good as in this business, we have no time to dance

around bushes.

I do wish you every sucess.

God Bless

Will

bbb...your bud Paul is offering Bank of America SBLC's at 67% of LTV.
(I can see your eyeballs about to pop out of your head)



http://www.topix.com/forum/business/banking/T84A5JTROJMEIQQ68

Investment Banker Chicago, IL
Reply » |Report Abuse |Judge it! |#5 7 hrs ago

We can provide BGs from any top 25WB the buyer chooses or a SBLC from Bank of america at 67% with a minimum face of 10M.

BIBRVP@gmail.com

Mr. Ludwig:

My business partner and I have located a 'Buy/Sell' program with a major international brokerage firm in London. The program has been vetted by our international transaction attorney in Texas. Our attorney is overseeing the contract process.

The requirement of the Trader and his firm is that we present a minimum EUR$200-million CD to enter the Buy/Sell trade(s). The CD must be either in our name or we can present the CD with a joint venture agreement stipulating us as a signatory. As I understand, the JV agreement, along with the instrument, will bring us into banking/trade compliance.

Since we were recently scamed out of $450k from London Investments, a Pasadena firm which claimed BK, we are cautious. We have also run into the Zurich/Berlin types whom wish to meet with us or wish to have us submit our funds for trade into 'their' account.

So, we wonder, do the Buy/Sell platforms exist? Does the one which I provided above, with little detail, appear 'real' to you? If so, would you happen to know ligitimate funding sources which exist that may entertain our objectives of the EUR$200-million CD?

My business partner and I have attorney and banking references. One of our partners has been twice appointed to leadership positions in his state of residence. We currently have ongoing banking relationships funding our developments.

Would appreciate your feedback and questions given the limited amount of information I have provided thus far. Thanks.

LtDupree

Although Richard may have his own view I cannot ignore the several clear "Red Flags" in your post.

As has been stated many times the so called "Buy/Sell" transactions do not operate as described by the many brokers seeking to operate in the Grey Market. Neither are they generally available to unknown third party counter-parties.

I do not intend to educate the crooks and scammers by listing all the points in your post that ring warning bells. However, you need to understand that to participate in a transaction of the scale you mention you have to have the financial capacity to start with and not to be seeking to rely on "OPM" or "JV" arrangements.

The other comment is that as you are based in the US, and you and your business partner are known there and have banking relationships and references, why are you not dealing with one of the US offices of the "International Brokerage Firm"? At this level of financial transaction potential jurisdiction complications do not help.

Xavier

quote:
"So, we wonder, do the Buy/Sell platforms exist? Does the one which I provided above, with little detail, appear 'real' to you? If so, would you happen to know ligitimate funding sources which exist that may entertain our objectives of the EUR$200-million CD?"
unquote

Existence of Buy/Sell? yes its an arbitrage flip but not a platform, its technically a part of a placement process where a lender of choice increases his income buy guaranteeing the placement for a fee and subordinates the collateral need for the flip account.
reality of the data: frankly no, it does not sound like you have a direct link or access and beware there are risks in this structure.
sources: yes I know but I neither know you nor do I have details of what you are looking at and I do not offer these accesses to the public.

Richard:

Is it appropriate to send you an email with our details?

no problem, however I'm pretty busy just do not expect an immediate answer, its Christmas and balance sheet preparations are runing high and I have to sign all the papers, its a nightmare, but I try to get back latest next day.

Thanks. Understand your schedule. The email is on the way to your legal 'gem' address. If that is not the address, please let me know here.

Has this board changed, I am reading a lot of positings by people named anonymous, who do not seem to login.


As regards dreamland, I notice this post went to the buy/sell world of joker brokers. I do not believe that is what the poster is seeking. It is my reading that he is looking for a bank investment that pays in excess of 32 percent per annum

I only know of one bank that can approach that figure, Julias Baer and as he has not indicated his situation, I do not know if I am at cross purposes. Their requirement is a simply deposit of funds with no withdrawal for the first year. Any withdrawal and you lose the account benefit.

Reality, a real eyes open when Joe Buuenos thinks he can provide paper. If that is reality then I am joining rip van winkle till Jose disappears.

BBB, what Julius Baer programe or fund are you referring to? I would be most interested as they are a bank I admire (even though there top bloke just killed himself).

I agree totally with your comment re anon posts.

I just received this this morning in case anyone is interested:




SEC Approved Private Hedge Fund
ForEx USD/ JPY

100K USD minimum. JV's allowed

Money stays in top US FDIC insured Banks - Bank of America, Wachovia, Credit Suisse.

4 Traders w/ Analysts & Assistants working together as a team for this Hedge Fund

20/ 20 Rule - Trading only 20% of portfolio at any given time.
Leverage 20% / 10% Call. 80 % Liquid at all times.

Goal to trade 15 days a month with multiple trades per day. They won't trade on days where gain is not a potential.

Pays out monthly, not quarterly.

ROI - 50% to client 50 % Program Owner. ( I have personally seen 3 wire transfer receipts for the ROI into the clients account with bank statement indicating such.)

Client nets 4% monthly/48% yearly. Client will receive 1099.

1 Year contract

Currently no compounding. This may be an option in the future

Sounds suspicious to me. I've not come across any hedge fund that works in that way. Hedge funds don't leave your cash on deposit. They also very rarely limit you to one part of one asset class (i.e. USD/JPY).

So I don't know if i'd trust it. However if SEC approved they will be able to provide you with lots of nice details all about the fund. Who are the managers/traders? There are loads of hedgefund publications out there that can provide further background info.

Smells like another forex trading platform and not a proper hedge fund.

G Kid, you simply make an appointment to JB shown them the cash and they will invite you in. Interest per month depends on amount invested. Same rule, one year without any withdrawal. they do not work with interemediaries. that is why they are so good.

min invest 3m swiss franc.

Thanks BBB, I will look into the JB option. I have a couple of family members who work for JB in a fairly senior roles so should be able to get the info from them.

Do you know what asset classes they invest in for this service?

Hi BBB

Have you got any further info on the JB account?

Cheers