frustratedinvestor (Login frustratedinvestor) from IP address 90.195.236.165
In my diligence on a recent offer which I have received, I have noticed the name of a disbarred US Attorney. He has not been reinstated.
can anyone give me guidance as to the position, in law, of that attorney, Is he still qualified to give legal advise or serve in the legal department of any company, indeed act in any legal capacity.
I have googled for this information and could not find a suitable posting All I discovered was his right to reapply after 6-7 years, which he hasn't as these laws vary from state to state I was wondering if there is a general rule of thumb,
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In almost all countries you need to be a member of the State Bar Association to offer and perform legal advise to the public, however you do not need to be an attorney if you are working in-house, you may not be able to work as counsel in front of the court, but you can certainly advise the company. The problem is that the legal community has a lot of members in these in-house situations, frankly not everybody likes lawyering, or judging etc. There are mayors which have a legal education, there are positions in the IRS or the FBI etc where you need a legal degree, so all different kind of positions available which hve no screening if you are disbarred. If you look at Mr. Cohen with his CA license suspended because of non-payment of membership fees, it is not a disbarment but near to it, it does not carry a good reference when you could just apply for a dormant status and then reactivate for a fee, however since money matters you find lawyers going that route.
There is however a problem when a lawyer is disbarred for fraud or similar charges, the court decicion usually includes in-house counsel prohibition and certain other things, however some of these lawyers start over as a consultant in their own consulting company, it is a fine line.
Not all disbarred attorneys are bad apples, the reasons vary.
If you want to know more please identify the jurisdiction etc
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Some attorneys, like Robert Charles Cohen, decide to move out of the country with the possibility of never returning and hence the decision to not continue paying for membership fees just for the sake of it.
Just think of it. If you were a member of a gym club and you never took the time to go and get a good work-out, why pay the monthly membership fee? And especially if you move to another country. The motivation to continue paying for gym membership makes no sense.
So, some representatives of the court simply cease practicing law and others get in trouble and cannot continue, even if they wish they could.
If we knew the name of the attorney, I am sure RL could be more precise on his next post.
Trb
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Actually Richard, you are incorrect. We are going back to 1995. Fifteen years ago. At that time, when I contacted the Bar and told them I had wound down my law practice and was moving to Europe to accept a position there, they told me I had a choice: I could go on "inactive status", or simply not pay my fees with the understanding that I would not be able to practice law again in California until such time as I paid any outstanding fees then owing. I chose the latter option with the understanding that if I were to return to my management labor law practice in California, I would need to bring my fees current. Of course, I continue to reside in Europe and, though I travel regularly to California, I have no interest in rekindling my management labor law career in Los Angeles.
This message has been edited by CWqJE from IP address 86.3.26.222 on Feb 5, 2009 5:10 PM
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In almost all countries you need to be a member of the State Bar Association to offer and perform legal advise to the public, however you do not need to be an attorney if you are working in-house, you may not be able to work as counsel in front of the court, but you can certainly advise the company. The problem is that the legal community has a lot of members in these in-house situations, frankly not everybody likes lawyering, or judging etc. There are mayors which have a legal education, there are positions in the IRS or the FBI etc where you need a legal degree, so all different kind of positions available which hve no screening if you are disbarred. If you look at Mr. Cohen with his CA license suspended because of non-payment of membership fees, it is not a disbarment but near to it, it does not carry a good reference when you could just apply for a dormant status and then reactivate for a fee, however since money matters you find lawyers going that route.
There is however a problem when a lawyer is disbarred for fraud or similar charges, the court decicion usually includes in-house counsel prohibition and certain other things, however some of these lawyers start over as a consultant in their own consulting company, it is a fine line.
Not all disbarred attorneys are bad apples, the reasons vary.
If you want to know more please identify the jurisdiction etc
If an Attorney has been disbarred, it's because the attorney has committed a moral or ethical breach and has been severely disciplined by the bar or law society. That is not the same thing as resigning or being inactive. I have noted that a lot of US scams, particularly private placements, have had disbarred attorneys involved. Additionally, one reason attorneys get disbarred is because they commit a crime involving moral turpitude.
A disbarred attorney who holds himself out as corporate counsel or some such nonsense is practicing law without a license which is a criminal offense in many states.
Jonathan H. Levy
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if I remember right you only need a bar admission and license when you give legal advise to the public, a client or for profit. If ou are an employee you need a legal degree and show you have the knowledge, as legal assistant you do not plead in front of the court, you push paper and write reports and if you are on the board as chief counsel you are a corporate organ with legal knowledge, just like a ceo of a company can have a law degree and use the knowledge does not need a bar admision
If the court makes it part of the penalty than it is different and ah there are different rules in every country for the details.
In addition Mr. Levy you can be disbarred for not paying the admissions fee, for not carrying proper insurance, in some countries even not having a local address enough for a disbarment
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The lawyer was disbarred in New York City for misappropriation of client funds. There is no record of his having re applied for licence and has moved states. There is no record of his holding or having applied for a licence in his new state of residence.
I can confirm that he is registered on a company web site as the legal advisor the the firm. Does this shed any further light on the topic. He has gone through law school and holds a doctorate of law degree, (all Checked) He also was investigated for other fraud matters,since disbarrment but the relevant state authorities could not prove the case so it was dismissed after a long period of investigation.
I thank you all for the responses to date, and it seems to be a common topice where PPP is involved.
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misappropriation of client funds is usually a felony beside the disbarment, there should be a legal file on PACER which gives you the details. If he changed states and has worked out all the probation requirements he can work for himself and work his own legals but not for others beside the company. He can also be an employee. However if he is working as an in house counsel he is considered supplying legal services if it is a free lance arrangement and not an employment or partnership.
Anyway, saw it often, lawyers getting into trouble with client funds, has nothing to do with PPP or anything else, law is a risky business when you walk the fine line.
I have to admit that I found lots of lawyers in the business, but also accountants and yes....housewifes and real estate agents as well as insurance sales men. Would I look down on these professions because they have bad apples or dreamers?
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Being a legal advisor to a corporation without a law license - is practicing law without a license. This is a typical set up for securities fraud - ask yourself - why would anyone want a disbarred attorney as their legal advisor unless they themselves were bent too? A paralegal fills out forms, they don't provide legal advice. A person with a law degree and no license can teach law, sell law books, write law books, work as a cop or other government official but they cannot provide legal advice to a company only a licensed attorney can do that.
If a law license is administratively revoked for not paying dues timely - then it can be reinstated by paying the dues plus a penalty. Again I reiterate, it's common practice in Boca Raton, Florida and other locales to use disbarred counsel and so called unlicensed legal advisors for the obvious reasons.
Jonathan H. Levy
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Being a legal advisor to a corporation without a law license - is practicing law without a license. This is a typical set up for securities fraud - ask yourself - why would anyone want a disbarred attorney as their legal advisor unless they themselves were bent too? A paralegal fills out forms, they don't provide legal advice. A person with a law degree and no license can teach law, sell law books, write law books, work as a cop or other government official but they cannot provide legal advice to a company only a licensed attorney can do that.
Cohen has employed disbarred esq.s for research and off the record input. Who better to have around than someone severely burned and especially aware of the consequences of minor infractions to a career?
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I would think they are not alone and the deterrent for misconduct provided by those disbarred wandering the office at 1/3 pay and working 10 times harder than others would be a HUGE benefit.
This is not meant to discourage the use of this firm, in fact we use them and the view I feel enriches the firm. The work product produced is nothing short of stellar.
Sincerely, JW
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The person was an example I am sure to the rest of the firm.... not the bulk of the firm.
You are almost in Broward I understand but Cohen and Cohen or now known as Franky's house of disco is a stand up group.
Marino, Catalfumo, Norman... the list goes on and on but you are retired? maybe and not working to be pluged in enough to know the good from the bad that far away from Broward?
JW
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it depends on the jurisdiction, 26 US States have laws requiring a special license for in house lawyers, 24 US States don't have these laws, one for example is Washington DC, almost all civil law based countries have no such requirements as well, so.....
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Richard..I agree with all you said....except "In almost all countries you need to be a member of the State Bar Association...."
many locations don't have "state bar associations"...just to be clear. They go be different names in different contries and within different areas in the Country.
In Canada as an example there are no such things as "State Bar Associations"
Ontario is the Law Society of Upper Canada
Alberta is the Law Society of Alberta.
Just to be clear....people can be lawyers and practise law without belonging to a "State Bar Association"
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Matt, sorry for the misunderstanding, I looked at it in the US, sure Bar Associations outside the US can be State Bars, some are free organizations, some follow local law etc, what they have in common is: you need to be a member when supplying legal advise to clients and represent in front of courts, some countries restrict it to civil and penal courts and leave tax courts etc free, different rules all over.
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Either way, they are a "title of nobility" and if the 14th amendment was truly upheld ( the "actual" and dejure 14th amendment, not the defacto one we have in place.....anyways that's another story ).....there would be no barfly attorney practicing. There are no "Lawyer's" in the world today....sad but true.
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Current Topic - information on disbarred attorneys
