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Uncut Ruby investment opportunity

February 19 2009 at 1:16 PM
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  (Login jack_holden)
from IP address 81.208.36.86

A friend of mine is selling an uncut Ruby of 109000 carats. It has color transparency "Purplish-Red Opaque" approximately 30.3 x 19.3 x 28.0 CM.
It has SKR, POP, Laboratory report, certificate of origin, Ownership, and Insurance Appraisal.
After faceting the increase in value should be around 1500% or at least there is an appraisal which attest it.
I am not an expert in the field but it seems an interesting opportunity. What are the risks ?
Thanx
Jack

 
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AuthorReply
RML23
(Login RML23)
68.112.52.194

Corundum Investment

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February 19 2009, 5:31 PM 

To say that this particular ruby is an "investment opportunity" is a bit oxymoronic. There are quite a few of these large stones floating around in broker-space, and almost all are problematic. If the stone is 109,000 cts, it weighs ~ 21.8 kgs, or roughly 50 lbs. Dimensionally the size of a large shoebox.

The problem with stones like this is that they are not clean enough to be cut and polished into fine jewelry; and not sufficiently large to be a museum piece. When you see the word "Opaque" that's the clue that it is not of sufficient grade to be desirable. For example, we have access to extremely large emeralds, ten kgs in weight, and you can read a newspaper through it. That's an investment opportunity! And the miners know it.

Throughout the years, scammers have used these large stones (to start banks, hypothecate them, etc), had all the certs done, and had some hapless GIA grad extrapolate on a valuation. Unless the appraiser is a cutter, and has "court-witness" status, his opinion is, well, simply an opinion.

To have stones fully papered, someone somewhere has to give a finished valuation and work backwards. And, the way that the credit markets are in these days of de-leveraging, you need a "knocks-your-socks-off" stone or stone holding to get anyone interested. Possibly, its real value may be in bartering.

These large stones are great fun, though, but usually dead ends. I have seen stones in places like Sierra Leone where the chief has built his hut over a piece of corundum which is the size of an old VW. That's a museum piece that will never come out of the ground.

Good luck.

 
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(Login jack_holden)
81.208.36.86

Re: Uncut Ruby investment opportunity

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February 19 2009, 5:36 PM 

Thank you
So if I understand well there is need of an independent expert to have a realistic evaluation of the possible value after faceting it ?

 
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will
(Login clearverbiage)
Banking Forum Group
220.255.7.185

Well.......

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February 19 2009, 6:14 PM 


Jack,

I have had a few run ins with these, and being risk adverse,

have found that it usually a lot of overpricing and hot air.

1) One Ruby in Bangkok, the size 2' X 1.5'x 0.75'.

In a bank vault, with all the toilet papers to go. Circa 1995

2) Jade about 110 lbs supposedly smuggled out of Burma. Circa 1997

3) Ruby, size if a soccer ball with no papers.Indonesian Circa 1998

4) Emerald, Size of an old laptop. Cloumbia Circa 2008

There were a few others that are to saw the least sketchy.

My answer is that I will pay for the cutting, valuation after and buy

at a 50% discount ( minus costs )

Like a magic show, they disappear.

It's all a show, and if you were to pay, it is a situation of willing

seller, willing buyer.

Be careful, Mr Flim Flam is out and about, especially in economic downturns.

Will



 
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RML23
(Login RML23)
68.112.52.194

Ruby

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February 19 2009, 8:57 PM 

Jack,

It's not that you need an independent expert, you need an expert who is a cutter and who has the designation of a "Court-Witness." This status is critical. Will is quite right about the flim-flams that abound.

As a point of reference, we are in the wholesale gemstone business. We have a few mines; deal with diggers, miners, accumulators. You see and hear just about everything as to the "scamas".

To get any stone ready for acceptance as a collateral asset will cost you tens of thousands of dollars, before you even get to the bank due diligence costs. If you know what you are doing, there is an incredible spread with colored stones; but, not so much with the heavily controlled world of rough diamonds. Not only has the Internet brought the world to us, it has also brought Antwerp & London to the bush.

As a rule-of-thumb time-saver, never engage in buying stones unless you can speak with a reliable person who can actually put their hand on the goods. Gemstones are not a paper business. It's hands-on and in person.

Good luck,
Richard

 
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PI
(Login privateinvestors)
207.200.116.130

RLM is correct.

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February 19 2009, 9:32 PM 

And to add a bit to his comments. The only deals that I have pushed forward are stones that have been cut and polished. The appraisal must come from an appraiser that is recognized by our bank. Uncut and unpolished stone deals never make it across our desk. None of my banks want them.

 
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