Yeah, it's like the Dems want W to win, that's why they're propping up roadkill to run against him.
I think W is the anti-Somethin... He's Nucular powered brain-stem. My dogs smarter than him, but damn if he (W not my dog) isn't more likable than Dean. My dog died, and is still much more likable. Probably smells better too.
...over Dubyah. There is nothing you could put on the ballot that I would not vote for instead of Dubyah.
I don't think that this comes as a surprise to anyone.
I wish Clark would stand out more.
I am conservative but I still hate Bush. He is the worst president since, well, at least Carter. Since I can vote this election, i will have to find a third party. No demo for me. Dean, one of the frontrunners, is intellectually intimidated by a pine cone. Or stupid, take your pick.
This is the first year I can vote, and I'm voting "not Bush." Doesn't matter who it is. If he gets reelected, I'm volunteering to be one of the first to Mars, my trip paid for "by the grandchildren!"
Please realize that if you choose to vote "Not Bush", the only way to do that effectively is to vote for the next most likely candidate. In other words, you must vote for the democrat. Voting for a third party is counter-productive. Since there's not a snowball's chance in hell that a third party candidate will win this election, voting for a third party effectively takes votes away from the only candidate who could beat bush. Consider this scenario:
Bush 47%
Democrat 45%
Third Party Candidate 7%
Other 1%
These imaginary results show that the majority of the US can vote "Not Bush", and Bush can still win! The only way to unseat Bush is for all "Not Bush" voters to get behind a common candidate. Maybe that candidate will not be the ideal candidate for you, but isn't the alternative far worse? This is one time where you may actually be choosing between the lesser of two evils.
If you don't vote Bush, vote Democrat. Otherwise YOUR VOTE WILL NOT COUNT.
PS I should note that I do not advocate this type of voting for every election. This year is an exception only because of the damage our current president is causing. We must unseat him. In other years, where we may disagree with the president, but he isn't so bad, feel free to cast a vote for a third party... I will.
I'm sorry but that is not true at all the essence of a Democratic system is to vote for who you think is the best person to run the country. The reason the third party has no chance is because people think like you do. The more people realize that Democrats and Republicans both are generally idiots and aren't all that different the better off we will all be and we'll turn from a Bi-dictatorship to a true democracy yet again.
"If you don't vote Bush, vote Democrat. Otherwise YOUR VOTE WILL NOT COUNT."
It is thoughts like this that will keep ONLY the possible two canidates a winning vote. If people were not afraid to step away from this thought process, then there might be a chance for some other party to step up. Even if it doesn't bring a new face to THIS election, the shift will be seen acording to the votes, not biased people. Stay with your idea of "voting for the lesser of 2 evils" and the country will have no other choice, for that is the choice you make! Is this the direction you wish to go? If not, Change your thought about "If you don't vote (whoever), vote (whatever). Otherwise YOUR VOTE WILL NOT COUNT."
Where is this magical place where pine cones could lead a country during a time of war? Did this pine cone start a Department of Homeland Security and lead our troops to some milestone victories over terrorism? Did that pine cone liberate a nation and capture one of the worst war criminals of our time? I can only think of one pine cone that might be good at that. That would be "Cone"deleeza Rice.
One question that might evolve into a two-parter.
1. Do you honestly believe the crap you just put out here for all the world to see? (and here's how it could become a two-parter)
And if so, are you willing to share the crack you're smokin'??
It seems that the pine cone supporters are so quick to throw insults and make accusations without addressing the issue. OK, you got me. I don't really think a pine cone could lead this country in a time of war. However, either can any of the human Democratic candidates. Whiners don't win elections leaders do. Bush/Cheney in 2004.
It seems to me that all of you democrats whine like it's going out of style. It's no wonder that I am a Republican....that wait for it....wait for it.....likes George W. Bush. OH MY GOD!
And to start accusing the person of smoking crack is just stupid and shows why your party is going to lose against Bush. B/c only losers whine.
Your brilliant Dean could learn some lessons from our fine president. I saw Dean take a question from one of his constituent and then yell at him to sit down during one debate. I heard him say to a group of Texans that he wants their votes even if they are pick-up truck driving confederate flag wavers. Way to intimidate constituents and stereotype potential voters. A silent pine cone has more diplomatic skills than "stupider" Dean.
However, I guess I should stop badmouthing Dean. I would love to see him win the Democratic Party nomination. Even if all pick-up driving confederate flag waving Texans vote for him he would not win.
What makes Dean so amazing? Is it the fact that he was backed by Gore?
I mean he really hasn't done anything that special that impresses me. I don't see why everyone treats him like he's a God on a wheels. He insulted Texans and all of the Southern people. My husband drives a big truck and he's from the South, but he use to vote Democrat until he started noticing how democrats blatantly insult us left and right. And you people nodd your heads in agreement like it's okay. I don't get it.
for loser accusing people of being on crack! (no login)
try arguing a point...loser!
January 20 2004, 6:25 AM
I read three well thought out points of why Bush is a good leader... And then I have to read your personal attack of how someone must be on crack to write it. WHAT A LOSER YOU ARE!!! I'm sure you really swayed the opinion of all potential moderate undecided voters over to your logical way of thinking...way to go!
The true sign of a clear winner in any form of debate or open forum for discussing an issue is when one side can no longer argue a point, and has to insult someone personally instead of sticking to an issue.
>>The true sign of a clear winner in any form of debate or open forum for discussing an issue is when one side can no longer argue a point, and has to insult someone personally instead of sticking to an issue.
Learn how to make a valid arguement...IDIOT!<<
Anyone else see the irony in this statement? I hope it was a joke.
I'm responding to a personal attack...not any actual issue, because, saying someone is on crack has nothing to do with whether Dean is a good choice for president or not.
If you'd like to argue that point..by all means, I'm game :)
The only reason Bush is leading the country during a time of war is... he got us into a war! Actually, two wars! If no Bush, no war. Despite Bush the Booger's rhetoric, the "war on terror" is not really a war but rather an ongoing national security fight. His $200 billion "war on terror" has only helped Iraqis and Afghanis, not Americans.
By the way, although I'm all for helping people in other countries when they are in trouble, you realize that your share of $200 billion is $667. That's $200 billion split among every man, woman, and child in the entire U.S. So that $400 tax cut you got? Actually Bush took away $267 from you, which you get to pay back with interest over the next 30 years.
I'd like to commend my conservative friends on here, for relating Sean Hannity talking points word for word. Your depth of knowledge (i.e., the ability to turn on a radio, and tune said radio to the Sean Hannity show, and type whatever he says into a web site) is inspiring.
I agree with an above poster that we need to rally behind the eventual Democratic nominee to get Bush and Company out of the White House. American can't risk having an irresponsible cowboy "lead" us anymore. We need an actual sentient being, that gives a crap about our future.
So now you want to talk to me. You Democrats have made sure that my name and my fathers name can never be spoken or written in a government building or school. But look who you come running to when your potential nominees are pathetic.
Sorry, I won't help you here. I am behind President Bush and our troops.
Thank you for again clarifying that one MUST support Dumbya in order to suppor the troops, as they are exactly the same thing. Bush is the troops, correct? Bush is out there every day, side by side with the men and women he sent off to war? Showing much the same valor he showed defending Texas during the Vietnam War (when he didn't have other priorities).
Read your First Amendment, Jesus. You have no business being in public schools. I don't believe in you, and last time I checked this was still a free country, and I wasn't required to. I really don't give a crap if people want to worship you, but get them out of my goddamn face, because I don't want to worship you (or more appropriately, be around the idiots that do).
Also, as you are the expert, what's a bigger sin: Sending young people to die over a lie, or wanting those young people to be home with their families?
I wasn't in your face until you called me to ask for my help, but I forgive you. The same way I forgive those who don't want to hear my name spoken in government buildings. I don't blame you. I heard many democrats yell my name when Saddam Hussein was captured. They new at this moment that the next election was lost.
Liberty and the safety of this great nation is worth fighting for. Nothing can comfort those who lost family members in Iraq, but in many eyes, except Dean's, they did not fight in vain.
I forgive you Jesus, for your misguided support of man that is evil. I'm sure it's hard to see how much disdain Bush has toward people other than his very wealthy friends, since he invokes your name so frequently. Hell, if someone used my name all the time and told me how great I was, I'd probably like him too.
But Jesus, you have to realize that Bush stands for everything that you were against. He'll say he praises you and then does whatever he can to screw over the poor. That isn't what you preached, Jesus. Rich men were the problem, Jesus, and they don't get much richer and angrier than the Bush family.
I forgive you Jesus, but I ask that you open up your eyes and see that even though this man acts like he follows you, he in fact spits upon you with his every war-mongering, poor-screwing action.
My Child,
Times are tough. If you are a job seeker like tOdd I wish you the best of luck finding work in this wonderful free market economy created by our forefathers. Don't ask for hand outs from the government. Let those fortunate enough to have a job, keep their money and make their own decisions about what to do with it. The government isn't your bank account. There are many good hearted Republicans who donate time and money to the poor and other worthy. Not all Republicans are wealthy, many just believe that out nation is the land of opportunity and they want to keep it that way. That does not mean that they are not compassionate people.
It is amazing what can be accomplished and what money can be earned when time is spent developing marketable skills instead of demanding handouts from the government. Believe in thyself. Depend on thyself......
Have you seriously ever read the Bible? I have, though I'm no Christian, and it's amazing how American Christians bend what Jesus said to justify living a life of greed and other deadly sins.
I'll stop whining just as soon as Bush is out of office. And by the way, our whining today pales in comparison with all the bitching you folks did during the 90s.
I do provide for myself, thanks. And I'm also happy to give my part so that others can have an opportunity to get ahead. I don't mean to shatter your little black and white world, but not all Democrats are communists.
I think Jesus would stay as far away from politics as possible. This poster actually considers herself to be a moderate. Although I don't agree with you on most of what you posted, I do not think you are a communist. Just not a realist. This is an imperfect world that the government will never fix. The government is not my religion nor caretaker. However, I believe that it is the role of the government to provide a strong military and defense. Thank you for the intelligent and humorous exchange.
My name is Jesus Hernandez and I am poor. I thank God every day for George W Bush. Thanks to him my family will soon live legally in this land of opportunity. We are poor but we are proud. We work hard for every dollar we earn. We don't need no stinkin' hand outs. You do not speak for me.
It is uneducated rambling like I see here that makes me concerned for democracy. However, I honestly believe it is the greatest form of government in the world today. Otherwise, I would not have volunteered to serve this wonderful country for 6 years in the Army, 3 of those years in the Special Forces. However, to most out there, GET OFF YOUR F_UCKING HIGH HORSE! This man is not a criminal. (If you care to know WHAT a criminal is...see last president.... a FOUND GUILTY FELONY.... perjury...) Now, you may question W, and maybe we should, but the president has the same rights as you or I and is innocent until proven guilty. Are there weapons of mass destruction? Who knows? The threat was there, now it is not. AND REGARDLESS OF YOUR POLITICS, you should sleep better tonite knowing that. Also, please keep in mind, we removed a war criminal from office...this man buried thousands of people in mass graves. Laws were enforced by rape and murder. This is the good we did and is enough to justify our countries actions.
Now if you want to talk domestic policy... take a Macro-econ course and learn that fiscal policy takes months, often years to take effect. The HORROR our budget was in when 3 and 4 years ago was a direct result of the Clinton administration. Look in the wall street journal, boys and girls... things are not as bad as the SHITTY; BIASED LIBERAL media would have you think. Interest rates will be raised next quarter. Unemployment rates are dropping, the stock market is climbing, etc, etc, etc, etc. Pay attention to whom you are trying to unseat.
Please do not get me started about pray and God. But Jesus made SOME good points. This country was started by strong Christian men Please go to D.C. and look at the art ON the capitol buildings, and court houses... this work was commissioned by the same forefathers that demanded separation of church and state and there is religious reference everywhere. We all could use God in our lives. However, I truly embrace all to practice their faiths. Muslims, Jews, Buddhists ALL have a place in this country.
Lastly, I will say this because apparently there are a lot of young readers on this website. Do not worry.... you will see the light. I too was VERY liberal when I was younger... and a very Wiseman said this to me and I will never forget it. "If you are conservative at 19, you are heartless.... however if you are liberal at 50 you are brainless." I am not 50.... not close, but I have a brain. Good luck to you all.... If you want to "unseat" W.... you better do far better than the trash you brought this year. And as many have said on this string before... WHINERS are LOSERS... See you all again in four years, back to the drawing board dems....
Finally somebody well spoken enough to string together coherent sentences as well as valid points has posted. Thankyou "I can not believe what I am reading". Bush is doing a far better job in office than any of the potential democratic candidates could possibly do, and he has done a much better job than Clinton. Now it also appears that the only real thing that is unifying the democrats is a shared, and for the most part blind, hatred of the encumbent. Oh, and by the way, ShushNow, stupidest IS a word, look it up (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=stupid).
that as a vet you'd be appalled at what Bush has done to vets and active military. He's cut pay, benefits and has little concern for you.
Moreover, as an economist, I can assure you that there are many more of us that find Bush's supply-side theories to be complete bunk than those who believe it. Bush's economic policies are terribly short-sighted, and as we have seen fail to even provide that short term gain. Clinton's economic policies were far stronger, and in all actuality, he followed a pretty conservative line on his tax policies.
Not to un-do all I said in my last diarrhea-of-the-keyboard, but I see your well-made points. YES, Clinton's Tax policy was fairly conservative. The rest of his fiscal policy was not. And to be honest, I disagree with Bush's tax cuts... actually fairly strongly. I think that fiscal policy is always a stronger action than tax cuts. So many liberals complain that Bush loves his money... he is evil... he helps the rich. But his tax cuts for wealthier people are justified. Can you imagine busting your ass, finally attaining success and financial freedom and having to pay nearly (or more than) 50% of what you make to the government. If so... why would you want to bust you ass at all? I believe people need a leg up when they are down, but so many expect a hand out for the rest of their life. Calling it welfare is not PC, so now we call it "entitlements'??? SO, those who don't work and don't seek jobs are ENTITLED to free money. While those who work hard and bust their asses, pay 50% to the Government.
Bush is not the best president our country has seen, and unfortunately.... he is human and f_cks up as often as you or I.... look at all of the grammar errors I keep making.... Ugh. But the man cares, he loves his God, he loves his country.
As for the comment about why I should hate bush because of pay cuts.... I hate Clinton for downsizing MUCH more. Bush may have to cut pay to open bases, get new technology to soldiers who NEED it to save their asses, but I am all for it. He respects us and the commitment we all make so that people can whine and complain on WebPages like this in safety and freedom. He is not the best president ever, but he is the best candidate we have.
I can be anonymous as much as I so choose. But you should not question my service, so immature whiny fuck! I AM NOT EMBARRESSED OF MY SUPPORT for Bush. I would just rather not get my email box filled with people whose only difference from me is politics. We obviously have something in common because we both enjoy tODD. I have no problem with anyone who has posted here. All are entitled to their opinion. That is the VERY POINT of this nation. BUT, if you question the sacrifices I have made, behind the comfort of your fucking computer screen, we have a problem. Grow the fuck up. You want my name it is Marc. I live in NC, born in MA. You know me more now? I sometimes log in as cruxNC if that makes you feel better to. Eat a dick Hep C, you are WAY out of line.
And also, for the record, I disagree with someone posting under the name of Jesus and pretending to speak on his behalf. I don't think that anyone can possibly explain God's thoughts. So, obviously Jesus did not post on here today... Hep C however may have used an accurate handle... for I am sure it describes him well.... a disease
Hep C, I don't have the time or the desire to explain my life and career to you. If you actually cared... I went to airborne school at fort benning is GA, then I went to a SF Indoc, etc. Again like you care... then I commisioned after I graduated from a state military academy. I was the PL for a scout sniper unit in VA. I was injuried, so I went back to school and now I am working on my PhD in biomedical sciences. I am almost mad at myself for taking time to share a little but about myself to you. I mean... it is not like that is going to satisfy you. But, whatever.
Anyone else think it is funny that Hep C made a point that Bush supporters don't log in, when Hep C wasn't logged in... hmmmm
I’m bored, and it’s been a while since I ripped someone a new asshole. Now that you’ve so bravely provided your name, Marc, I like to take a few moments to dissect YOUR ramblings. I would hate to take credit for your genius, so I’ve put your stuff in brackets >like this<. Here goes:
>It is uneducated rambling like I see here that makes me concerned for democracy. However, I honestly believe it is the greatest form of government in the world today.<
Funny that you announce your displeasure of uneducated ramblings, and then make this statement. We don’t live in a democracy, Marc, we live in a Republic. You can make sentences, I’ll assume you made it past 2nd grade, so this may jog your memory: I pledge allegiance, to the Republic…
> Otherwise, I would not have volunteered to serve this wonderful country for 6 years in the Army, 3 of those years in the Special Forces.<
I’ve also served in the military. I was in a LRRP team. We worked with SF at times, so I’m one of the few people here who would know how unlikely it is you tabbed in 3 years.
>This man is not a criminal.<
Who cares? Who said he was?
>(If you care to know WHAT a criminal is...see last president.... a FOUND GUILTY FELONY.... perjury...)<
Oh, I see. You mentioned the fact that W was not a criminal so you could bring up Clinton. Great tactic, and even better logic. Clinton was a criminal, so by default Bush must be a good guy because he’s not Clinton. Now I see. So Clinton was a criminal, and Manson is not Clinton so…aah, now I’m confused again.
>Are there weapons of mass destruction?<
What? Do they exist? Is there such a thing? What the fuck are you talking about, Marc?
> Who knows?<
Obviously not you.
> The threat was there, now it is not. AND REGARDLESS OF YOUR POLITICS, you should sleep better tonite(sic) knowing that<
Oh, I get it, you were talking about Iraq. I thought we were talking about Bush. Warn me when you’re going to jump off topic. But you are right, I sleep much better now. I know in my heart Iraq was poised to attack us before we attacked them. I mean, they had no air force or navy, but that wouldn’t have stopped those crafty Iraqis from finding a way over here with all their weapons of mass destruction.
> Also, please keep in mind, we removed a war criminal from office...this man buried thousands of people in mass graves. Laws were enforced by rape and murder. This is the good we did and is enough to justify our countries(sic) actions.<
Didn’t he do most of those things while he was our ally against Iran? Or was he good then and turned evil like some Batman villain right after shaking hands with Rumsfeld?
> take a Macro-econ course and learn that fiscal policy takes months, often years to take effect. The HORROR our budget was in when 3 and 4 years ago was a direct result of the Clinton administration. Look in the wall street journal, boys and girls... things are not as bad as the SHITTY; BIASED LIBERAL media would have you think. Interest rates will be raised next quarter. Unemployment rates are dropping, the stock market is climbing, etc, etc, etc, etc. Pay attention to whom you are trying to unseat.<
This one is my favorite. Your Macroeconomics course told you if the economy shits the bed because of Clinton, but if it gets better, it’s Bush. Okay, so when the same thing happened to Bush Sr., it was Reagan’s fault? No, it must have been Carter, but he wasn’t as evil as Clinton, so it took 9 years for us to feel the repercussions of his fiscal policy. You guys crack me up!
>This country was started by strong Christian men<
Most of the founding fathers were the kind of whiney liberals you despise. Also, empirical evidence indicates that more than a few were atheist. Read something by Ben Franklin sometime.
> Please go to D.C. and look at the art ON the capitol buildings, and court houses... <
because commissioned art is always a good indicator of the morality of a nation. I mean, just look at art during the Middle Ages.
> If you are conservative at 19, you are heartless.... however if you are liberal at 50 you are brainless<
…actually, I like that quote.
Hep C..... Well done. Seriously. That was well thought out and logical. No one was saying much that was valid, and that prompted my tangent. It was written fast and while distracted, thus the errors, that I pointed out myself. I am a little disappointed that you picked the little stuff, like grammar errors and lesser issues to shred, because you are good at it, and I would like to hear answers to larger issues. There isn't a quick fix to any of what we are talking about, but "Bush sucks!" doesn't fix a thing and most only had that to offer. I only attacked you because you questioned my commitment and service to the country. I don't really take that lightly. And the comment I made about the special forces was made in passing, didn't think it would be such a huge deal. I did work with the SF for 3 years, wasn't tabbed... actually got hurt really bad in a jump before the end of Q. I really respect that you worked with the unit you did. That is high speed shit. Anyway, I will post more tomorrow.... the lady is calling me to bed.
I'm just messing around, anyway. I don't know anyone here personally, so there's no actual disrespect. I just can't resist a good argument.
I only went after the little things because you got so fired up over my original statements, that I thought I could whip you into a frenzy over them. Alas, you took the high road and ignored the bait. I hate it when that happens. :)
I really don't care too much about politics. I find most liberals to be ineffectual whiners and most conservatives to be over-serious bullies.
I will vote against Bush, not out of any deep ideology, but because I think he's a dipshit and am embarassed that he is the figurehead for my country.
Ironically, again we agree. I don't like politics. When I was at the mil academy, I thought I wanted to be a diplomat or a doctor when I was a grown up. One year as an international science major taught me that I was horribly wrong. So after before an SF doc fell through.... SHEDDED some important shit in my knee and broke the tip off my femur a few years ago, I focused on just medicine.... and in 10 years, I may have a job. The true irony to you and me having this heated discussion, is that neither of us are strong liberal or strong conservative. I would say that less the 7 years ago, I was as liberal as you could possibly get. Over the last few years, I have agreed more with conservatives. Sure, I believe in less government, less taxes, a welfare system that helps the needy but also makes them get off their ass. And that if you take the guns out of hands of normal citizens, criminals will be the only ones with them.... (Although I am sure Ben F. and Tommy J weren't thinking that John Q public would want an AT4.) But I do think that special interest groups are the route of all evil. That the environment needs to be preserved at the cost of big business. I have and will continue to strongly support Amnesty International for their support of prisoners of conscious (although I feel that sometimes you have to act with force and not just letters). I think it is almost comical that liberals say, "The death penalty is wrong!!!! Killing is wrong, but I have the right to kill the baby inside me” and that conservatives say ABORTION IS WRONG.... KILLING IS WRONG, Vote for life.... but we are going to run enough juice through this guy to light up Times Square." I truly believe that killing is wrong.... however I don't know what I would say if someone raped and killed my child. I bet it would be something like "Skin the fuck alive, cover him with lemon juice and fuck him in the ass with red hot pokers until he dies"... so who am I? Also, I personally believe abortion is wrong, but I will never vote on a pro-life bill. Because parents have enough trouble raising kids they want and if they are outlawed, back-alley abortions are much worse of an option.... SO... my beliefs are torn. I do think that liberals whine.... I would not vote for Dean just because Gore supported him... Gore is a whining bitch. I do also think that many hard-nosed conservatives are big bully pricks. It is unfortunate that our system is predominately two parties, and it is more said that with out the far left and right our government would be stagnant. I am glad you again said nothing is personal, because it isn't. I cold walk by you on the street today and not know it was you who I wanted to punch in the face yesterday afternoon. The worst part is that now I know there are much better people to punch than you. Funny stuff how two moderates are the ones gutting each other on here. Bush has his faults... no questions asked. If we had another candidate to vote for liberal or conservative that was worth it, I would vote for him or her. But Bush loves this country and tries damn hard and really really is not "the worst president in history” I can with a responsible amount of certainty say that some of the democratic candidates this time might be if they get to office though.... that is why I thing voting "NOT BUSH" regardless of who it is...it down right retarded. Take care all and in honor of tODD.... good vibes.
How DARE you purport to speak as Jesus Christ!! I am offended that you would make such a mockery. You would have been stoned to death for making such a claim in biblical times.
Besides, your arguments about prayer in school and on government buildings are ridiculous. I do not want my children subjected to government imposed prayer. That is exactly what our constitution protects against and exactly why our forefathers fled England. To say that a public, government-funded school should have daily prayer is outrageous! Who do you propose should lead the prayer? What if the pray-er is not of your denomination and prays things that you disagree with? What if the pray-er is of a different faith? Is a Jewish prayer acceptable? What about Hindu? Muslim? Budhist?
I will and do pray with my children in church and at home and I will fight or flee any country that wants to impose another (your) religion on me or my family.
If you are not talking about public prayer in school, then you have nothing to argue about. There is nothing preventing any child from praying a private, personal prayer in school. I prayed in school from kindergarten until graduation. I remember praying when I got scared as a small child, and praying over my food, and praying for help on tests. The beauty of prayer, is that it can be a silent, private thing that nobody else need know about.
If you feel that a public group prayer is what your children need, there are plenty of private schools available that supply just that. That way you can make sure that the prayer is in harmony with your beliefs. There are no laws prohibiting public prayer in private schools.
I am sorry that it took you longer than everyone else to figure out that I am not really Jesus Christ. Somehow I thought I entered the oddtodd website for satire and humor. I guess I should have stopped posting when my co-workers tried to wash my feet and give up all of their worldly possesssions to follow me. It was a joke that went horribly horribly wrong. I hope that I will be forgiven some day. I talked to my Lawyer God....................frey Steinberg. He said that from now on I most include the following disclaimer.
(This posting in no way represents the thoughts or beliefs of Jesus Christ)
I actually take offense to what you are saying when it comes to me only quoting Sean Hannity. I don't watch Fox News or alot of news. And I certainly do not listen to talk radio. It upsets me to hear people say that my mind and my opinion is just regurgitating what the media has said. I don't believe in the media; in fact, I hate the media. I don't discuss politics, because I feel that most politicians really don't care about what you think. All they really care about is your vote. But to say that Bush is the worst president ever, is wrong in my eyes. He's not. He's no different than any other president. He bombed Iraq, well, Clinton bombed Kosovo. Nobody said anything. However, when a Republican does it, democrats go up in arms. I just don't get it. So, that makes me want to be a Republican.
And I do not quote the media. I feel what I feel and I say what I feel.
Hey yall,
First, it helps to know the first AND last names of the people you're bashing, but I think that's already been covered in this thread. Anyway....
All you Dean supporters (and you Republicans too, for that matter) should check out John Edwards. Dean has (rightly or wrongly) acquired an ultra-liberal, angry-man reactionary reputation that'll make it very difficult to win in November, but Edwards has so far been running a positive, hopeful campaign reminiscent of Robert Kennedy. His good performance in Iowa proved that he's a viable candidate and he's as energizing as Dean and more likable.
JohnEdwards2004.com
-a southern democrat
Dean melted down, which is cool!! I like the idea that he was exposed so early on.
I want a president that looks at adversity and changes the channel 'cause it confuses him. I want a president that I can easily say "I'm F*ckin smarter than that guy". I want a president that hates taxes. I want a president that will blow the living shit out of those who would wage war on us. I want a president that hires good/talented/smart people to tell him what to think. The power of the office is in the people who feed him information and tell him what to think of it.
Also, here's my explanation to the John Dean/Howard Dean gaffe. I heard his name dozens of times, yet in my brain, I heard John. Maybe it was John Kerry in the discussion as well, who knows. But the retarded misfired neuron that was responsible for me keeping the name straight never got calibrated. Just as well, since HOWARD Dean will be no more than an answer to a trivia question, just like John Dean is.
Wow Hep, I'd hate to face your wrath. Remember this category is "politics for dummies", so maybe you'd better lay off a bit.
I, for one, am impressed at OT's candor. One of his greatest strengths, and secret genuis is to admit ignorance and imperfection. He admits he doesn't know about politics, and earnestly seeks more information, that is admirable. There is a certain of amount of confusion surrounding politics, and I suspect, those that would abuse power like it that way.
This confusion, I believe (and from what I've read) stems from how the media molds our democracy. The concept of information being open and free seems natural, and in most cases unquestioned in our society.
However the actual democracy in practice may be one where the public is barred from managing their own affairs. Some of the public even think this is a good thing. Prior to WW I the population of the US was an extremely pacifist population. The Wilson administration established the Creel Commission which succeeded in turning the population into a hysterical, war-mongering population. Similar techniques were used after the war to stimulate hysteria for the Red Scare, which pretty much destroyed unions, influenced thought, and restricted the press.
One must remember that mainstream media is a business. Politics and business meet, and therein lies a form of influence that lies out of the realm of public perception. The support of business community and the media has a heavy influence on public opinion and the politicians.
Certain groups of liberal democratic theorists that were impressed by the successes of the Creel commission and the Red Scare.
Walter Lippman, a media figure, involved at the time in these "propaganda commissions" argued for what he called a "revolution in the art of democracy", which then could be used to "manufacture consent". A phrase that has been popularized by Noam Chomsky.
Manufacturing consent involves creating agreement amongst the public for things that they didn't agree with through the use of propaganda.
For example, now in the US the majority of public (depending on who you believe and when you measure it) were against the Iraq war before it started, against abortion, for socialized medicine, improved funding for schools and medi-care. Yet the policy that has been brought to us does the opposite. How can that be possible? Well media is on board, and the messages that come from the white house are carefully constructed. Those that rule you rely on your ignorance and apathy. I think if you look at some of these previous posts you will see that there is only a cursory understanding of politics. People are divided into competing "teams" which seem unable, and unwilling to listen to each other, rather than earnestly and genuinely seek out the truth. More importantly discuss what is best for the country without reciting jingoistic phrases, and parroting party lines.
Walter Lippman went on to stress. That he thought this manufacturing of consent was a good idea. "The common interests elude public opinion entirely." , those interests should be managed by the elite. A "special class" of "responsible men". This view is not new, it is also a Leninistic view. It could be said to be true of our view of our "democracy" today on some levels.
"This state propaganda when supported by the ruling classes and educated classes, allowing for no deviation can have a big effect.
It was a lesson learned by Hitler and many other, and has been pursued to this day".
One thing that Hilter did (or so I've read), was murder a lot of the minority of vocal intellectuals that opposed him when he took office. He also changed the color the flag to his own party colors.
Why did he change the color of the flag? Well, it was a subtle yet extremely powerful manuever.
Look up the word <a href="http://www.yourdictionary.com/" title="demagoguery">demagoguery</a>.Then consider your own political passions. Are they based on facts or feelings? People yelling at each other for being "idiots". Are they projecting? Or are they truly seeking information for which to make good judgements?
Just kidding. That was a good post. You seem to be an educated person.
" Latin? Mr. Ringo's an educated man, now I know I hate 'im." Sorry, Movieland habits die hard.
I feel that democratic politics and demagoguery have been holding hands since the days of the ancient Greeks.
I'm a bit of a nihilist when it comes to politics. Also, all of my views are based on feelings because I don't believe there is such a thing as a "fact". There exists merely facts as each individual believes them to be. I could explain in greater detail, but that would bore even me, and I think you understand what I'm saying.
Incidentally, if I listed all of my views, you would see that I don't really fit into either of the 2 choices we are given in American politics. Sadly, I'm sure I am not alone in this category.
My earlier post was before most of the arguing. The one saying "I'll be able to vote this year." I'm 17. I'm not liberal. I'm not conservative. I'm me. I think my thoughts according to the situation and how that particular situation makes me feel. Abortion? Depends. Death penatly? Depends. It all depends. A teenager shouldn't get an abortion every time her b/f forgets to pull out, but someone who is raped and can't support a child should. (Adoption would work too, but how you like knowing that your mother cast you aside as and accident of accidents?) You can go around in circles for years about each issue. I guess this way of thought would make me more liberal, but here's the way I see it: I don't think making things illegal just because I'm against them is right. Laws shouldn't be made on morals. How does someone getting an abortion effect anyone but the mother/father/etc.? Illegalize drugs and murder, things that hurt all sorts of people and the environment. Not things that are a moral decision.
That intro aside: I actually find it quite reassuring knowing that the arguments taking place on this forum are exactly like the arguments me and my friends have. I guess I'm more ready for the real world than I thought. The only difference is that you guys made up almost right away, and I respect you for that. But it seems that all arguments are based on making the other person look bad. Arguments aren't about bashing the other person's views; it's about stating your opinions, trying to convince them that you're right. I think a huge problem in this country is everyone saying "my choice is better because this, this, and this is wrong with yours." It should be "I feel this way because of this, this, and this."
And my thoughts on Bush, and why I'm voting "not Bush.": A big reason is my dad, who's completely anti-Bush. But a big part of it is the war. I hate war. I'm anti-war completely. Read "Johnny Got His Gun." Amazing anti-war book. I don't think Sadam is a good guy at all. But what makes it okay for Sadam to be dubbed a power-hungry war-monger, when it was OUR president who LIED to get us into Iraq? And then all of a sudden we're "liberating" them, making Bush a hero. In a class I'm taking, I was debating a fellow student who asked me "so you don't believe in helping people get back on their feet?" Yeah, I really do. But two things: 1) If I walk up and punch someone in the face, then help them up, am I a good guy for it? and 2) I don't mean to sound like an ass, but don't you think we should worry a little more about OUR country? I think it's well and good and all to lend the world a hand, but not at the expence of our own country. We've got all sorts of problems. Just because we're the richest country doesn't mean WE don't need to be helped out.
I'm going to end with asking a favor: PLEASE don't say stuff like "you stupid little kid, shut up about things you don't know." I know a lot. I just don't have as many years as you. My opinions are still just as valid. Especially seeing as how my generation is voting this next year. You'd be wise to argue, not attack. You don't want me saying "THAT'S what Bush supporters are like? Hell, now I have even more reason."
However, if laws shouldn't be based on morals, what should they be based on? Laws against murder, libel/slander, extortion, scams (for lack of the technical term, which isn't coming to mind), I could go on, but that should do, are all based on moral/ethical principles.
The thing is, the morals that laws are based on have to be chosen carefully. For example, is it worse to hinder one person's freedom (in desiring to kill) or to have one person be killed?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Check out John Edwards
January 27 2004, 10:02 AM
Surely, Hep there is an empirical evidence, and reality that contributes to "facts". However, I don't disagree that in the realm of spin doctors, propaganda, culture, Fox news, and indoctrination (is that redundant?), it becomes extremely difficult to find truth.
<i> Incidentally, if I listed all of my views, you would see that I don't really fit into either of the 2 choices we are given in American politics. Sadly, I'm sure I am not alone in this category.<i/>
Wow, wish I would have found this schlock sooner....
And for the record, no one would have stoned you for claiming to be Jesus in Biblical times. Jesus was practically a nobody until long after his death, which about wrapped up "Biblical Times."
