Why we must thank the Turks, not Drake, for defeating the Armada
John Ezard, arts correspondent
Tuesday June 1, 2004
The Guardian
For four centuries, Sir Francis Drake has symbolised English nonchalance and cunning in the face of danger. First, according to the legend drummed into every pupil, he insisted on finishing his game of bowls on Plymouth Hoe as the Spanish Armada approached in July 1588. Then he despatched the enemy ships with little more than a few burning rowing boats and a favourable breeze.
But yesterday, it was claimed that Elizabeth's protestant throne was saved by a less celebrated ally: the Turkish navy.
Jerry Brotton, a lecturer at Royal Holloway College, London, told the Guardian Hay literary festival that a hitherto unnoticed letter from Elizabeth's security chief and spymaster, Sir Francis Walsingham, to her ambassador in Istanbul showed that it was Turkish naval manoeuvres rather than Drake's swashbuckling which delivered the fatal blow to the Spanish invasion plans.
The letter, which ordered the ambassador, William Harborne, to incite the Turks to harry the Spanish navy, was written in the mid-1580s and has been buried in archives ever since because it did not apparently relate to any major historical event.
But Mr Brotton told the fes tival: "Walsingham's plan was ultimately successful. Ottoman fleet movements in the eastern Mediterranean fatally split Philip II's armada _ So alongside all the stories we're told at school about why the Spanish Armada failed to conquer Britain and destroy Protestantism, we should add another reason: the Anglo-Ottoman alliance brokered by Elizabeth, Walsingham [and others]."
In his letter to Harborne, Walsingham wrote: "Her Majesty being, upon the success of the said King of Spain's affairs in the Low Countries, now fully resolved to oppose herself against his proceedings in defence of that distressed nation, whereof it is not otherwise likely but hot wars between him and us, wills me again to require you effectually to use all your endeavour and industry in that behalf."
Walsingham hoped that Islamic forces might keep the Spanish forces "thoroughly occupied" by "some incursions from the coast of Africa", or by attacking his Italian territories from the sea.
The Spanish fleet was eventually defeated on July 30 1588 as it awaited the rest of the invasion force off Calais. At the battle of Gravelines, the English navy used fireships before closing in on the confused Spanish.
Re: Why we must thank the Turks, not Drake, for defeating the Armada
June 2 2004, 4:05 PM
Note the timing and Britain's position about Turkey in EU.
Molon Lave When once you have tasted flight,
you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been,
and there you will always long to return. Leonardo da Vinci
Re: Why we must thank the Turks, not Drake, for defeating the Armada
June 2 2004, 8:11 PM
should I construe above words like below
Why not? You don't like my opinion?
When you post such articles you are bound to hear such things. I have only to point to the title. "We must thank the Turks, not Drake". As if he was sitting and watching or something.
Molon Lave When once you have tasted flight,
you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been,
and there you will always long to return. Leonardo da Vinci
Re: Why we must thank the Turks, not Drake, for defeating the Armada
June 2 2004, 8:24 PM
Calm down Koursaros.
English are so fond of Turks that they have decided to change their history. English decided that the time dictates something to do in favor of Turks, then how come somebody came with a brilliant idea, lets thank to Turks for something that happened (or not) 500 years ago. So nobody will get hurt, and feel bad for the fact that we thank Turks.
He will soon realize that he was wrong. Time is bad. Thanking Turks is worse than the time itself.
Little Europe-thinking just doesn't work anymore...
Joschka Fischer, German Foreign Minister
Re: Why we must thank the Turks, not Drake, for defeating the Armada
June 2 2004, 9:28 PM
I was calm and still am. I guess it doesn't show in what i write then. I did not say if it was bad or not. But surely, you can see that the timing is suspicious. After all the Turkish fleet did not fight at all.
Molon Lave When once you have tasted flight,
you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been,
and there you will always long to return. Leonardo da Vinci
This message has been edited by Koursaros on Jun 2, 2004 9:30 PM
Re: Why we must thank the Turks, not Drake, for defeating the Armada
June 3 2004, 12:34 AM
Nothing but Turkey to ruin the party, let the spanish invade them, at least today they would be less ugly. One more reason not tomlet Turkey in europe.
Re: Why we must thank the Turks, not Drake, for defeating the Armada
June 3 2004, 2:35 AM
Oooops.
"Nothing but Turkey to ruin the party, let the spanish invade them, at least today they would be less ugly. One more reason not to let Turkey in Europe."
Take a breath Eric, I did not post this article for provoking a political debate, especially that kind above, or providing another "happy hour" to swear at Turks. This thread is about history, in its most manipulated and twisted form. So let's manipulate and twist, but not rock'n roll!
We Turks do not feel betrayed since English people have never thanked us for that particular event! I don't think that Spanish Navy is still angry, and desperately looking for an opportunity to ambush Turkish Navy in the Mediterranean Sea.
Despite the fact that I don't feel any sympathy for your stance about Turkey at all, I must say that I do praise your creativity for connecting almost anything with Turkey's prospective accession.
Don't forget, after 500 years past nobody will praise you for your firm stance against Turkey in EU. But may be one day English historians will remember you and thank (most probably after finding records of what you've written in this forum).
Regards, not re-guard please
Little Europe-thinking just doesn't work anymore...
Joschka Fischer, German Foreign Minister
Re: Why we must thank the Turks, not Drake, for defeating the Armada
June 3 2004, 8:09 AM
as i said modus its interesting
very little information there though. If you read through
the lines of the guardian tripe. I dont think the letter
actually goes beyond mentioning the request for aid?
sorry if i seem doubtfull, its just this paper is a poor excuse
for journalism
Re: Why we must thank the Turks, not Drake, for defeating the Armada
June 3 2004, 3:49 PM
>> Nothing but Turkey to ruin the party, let the spanish invade them, at least today they would be less ugly. One more reason not tomlet Turkey in europe.<<
Who asked your opinion you bloody fool?You miserable,xenophobic low-life idiot,why do you have this obsession with Turkey? Are you afraid of the big bad Turk? This is a historical issue ,so STFU.If you want to discuss about Turkey's EU bid then proceed but to the appropriate forum.Don't leave your **** everywhere.Scum! After Dicember's vote though, you will eat your **** together with your fav frog feet.RACIST! Why doesn't the forum owner ban you??
Re: Why we must thank the Turks, not Drake, for defeating the Armada
June 4 2004, 2:15 AM
"Who asked your opinion you bloody fool?You miserable,xenophobic low-life idiot,why do you have this obsession with Turkey? Are you afraid of the big bad Turk? This is a historical issue ,so STFU.If you want to discuss about Turkey's EU bid then proceed but to the appropriate forum.Don't leave your **** everywhere.Scum! After Dicember's vote though, you will eat your **** together with your fav frog feet.RACIST! Why doesn't the forum owner ban you??"
ROFLMAO. Man that's illarious, emotional pansies are such an entertainment. Don't stop girly boy, keep on your show, that's actually so funny.
This message has been edited by Eric_De_La_Legion on Jun 4, 2004 2:19 AM
Re: Why we must thank the Turks, not Drake, for defeating the Armada
June 4 2004, 3:55 PM
Everybody has his own perspective on history...
But one thing the Turks brought in Europe and I really like to have is a big harem.... For sure, with a nice personal hamam with only female employees...
And ofcourse many bellydansers...
I'd better stop dreaming!!!
"Death smiles at us all. All a man can do is smile back."
- Gladiator -
I'll set up the harem with the eunuchs and all. I'll also include that Eryx cry baby in it. I'll leave one big black Eunuch with all his "equipment" intact. And watch him and his pals go at him for ever and ever. And while the eunuchs will roger Eryx I'll have all the women in his sorry ass family suck at my toes while i drink my raki.
F...k face Eryx. We'll come one day you like it or not.
I don't think that Spanish Navy is still angry, and desperately looking for an opportunity to ambush Turkish Navy in the Mediterranean Sea. 
