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Christianity's Pagan Origins

June 17 2004 at 5:10 PM
  (Login cooldude_rk)

This is an interesting set of books exposing Christianity as being a copy cat religion that borrowed all of it's myths from older Pagan legends.

http://www.kessinger-publishing.com/searchresults_orderthebook.lasso?Author=Roberts,%20J.M.&Submit=Query#1


 
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Paljoey
(Login Paljoey)
Soldiers

Re: Christianity's Pagan Origins

June 18 2004, 12:10 AM 

Humanities 101...,ALL religions have pagan roots,not just Christianity.Although I find religions in the 21st century to be pretty worthless(and the cause of many conflicts)to each their own.That being said,If you want to worship the orange-footed tree frog,thats good for you,just don't force your belief on me.

 
 
Devan
(Login DevanT)
EXPERT POSTER

Re: Christianity's Pagan Origins

June 18 2004, 12:18 AM 



Christianity borrowed alot from Zoroasternism. Including Hell and Heaven,angels,devil, good and evil etc.

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(Login Koursaros)

Re: Christianity's Pagan Origins

June 18 2004, 12:22 AM 

An interesting book on this subject is "The DaVinci Code".

Molon Lave


When once you have tasted flight,
you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been,
and there you will always long to return.

Leonardo da Vinci

 
 

Apex
(Login apexace2000)
Moderators

Christianity's Pagan Origins

June 18 2004, 3:11 AM 

I pretty much agree with Palijoey,

as soon as people stop believing in imaginary friends and realize that the only good and evil there has ever been is in the hearts and minds of man many conflicts would soon end and many lives to be saved.

Religions are outdated, made up in a time without science and people needed answers for occurences in nature. We have real answers now and the clerics of the various religions are just continuing on in ignorance running the world's oldest scam, for power.

I have a saying: "Religion is a crutch for the weak minded." That just about sums it up

 
 
ravi
(Login cooldude_rk)

Re: Christianity's Pagan Origins

June 18 2004, 1:52 PM 

paljoyey,
nobody is forcing any beleifs on anybody.christian priests always say that their beleif system is superior to pagan beleifs and they compare everything bad to pagan practises.now,when christianity itself is derived from pagan beleifs then why unnessarily blame pagan practises for everything.

 
 


(Login ShadowMast01)
EXPERT POSTER

Re: Christianity's Pagan Origins

June 18 2004, 6:32 PM 

whats wrong with being Pagan, as long as you believe in something, its cool, people have their own beliefs, and they should be allowed to follow them

 
 

(Login gharajeh)
Member

Re: Christianity's Pagan Origins

June 18 2004, 9:39 PM 

Aristotle probably has had the greatest impact on the intellectual development of Christianity, and he born several hundred years before Christianity was even started.




 
 

(Login BharatRakshak)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: Christianity's Pagan Origins

June 19 2004, 6:22 AM 

BTW, is Hinduism even a religion, or a collection of religions? I mean, you have the idolatry, the Classical Hinduism, that appeals to the masses, the one with lavish animal sacrifices, giant idols, beautiful dancing girls, etc.
Then, you have the intellectuals that went to the forests, and basically contradicted everything that Classical Hinduism said, said that there is only 1 God, that all the idols were human derivations to connect easily to the one and only God. The Upanishads and Puranas are simply compilations of what each of these intellectuals thought about the world, so, this compilation consists of contradictions as great as between Aristotle and Einstein.
That is why, at the end, when Hinduism formed as a total religion (Gupta age-500 AD), the conclusion was that there is no one correct way to reach God (no specific password required, it is "press any key to continue", not "username" and "password").
That remains Hinduism till today. No devout Hindu in his right mind believes in the idolatry polytheistic stuff.

Ravi, what you should instead talk about, is how monotheist Hinduism is. In fact, Hinduism (not the classical one) is very rationalist, very atheist, and there is no mention of God in those texts. It is all about perfecting yourself, to become at one with the Spirit (which is the universe).

Going by this conclusion that Hinduism talks of, that "press any key to continue to God", means that Christianity falls under Hinduism, Islam falls under Hinduism, Naziism falls under Hinduism (if you think that the best way to reach God is kill all non-whites, then go ahead believe it).

http://india_resource.tripod.com/hist-2nation.html


 
 
ravi
(Login cooldude_rk)

Re: Christianity's Pagan Origins

June 19 2004, 4:57 PM 

thats exactly what i am saying.no religion is superior to anyother religion certainly not predatory religions like christianity and islam.i am an atheist.but i do beleive that religion has a role in the soceity.but am defenitely against religions like islam and christianity which divide the world into muslims and kafirs,christians and pagans,christians and heathens etc.even flexible religion like hinduism has problem.but the positive aspect of hinduism is,it being flexible anybody can intrepret hinduism like anything,there by reducing differences.
even an atheist like me can say i am an hindu,simply because hinduism allows atheism in it.even though its not a perfect religion its better among the worst.




 
 

(Login cooldude_rk)

Re: Christianity's Pagan Origins

June 21 2004, 12:18 PM 

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-priests20jun20,1,5233761.story?coll=la-headlines-california

Vatican Aware of Abuse for Centuries, Study Says
June 20, 2004
By William Lobdell, Times Staff Writer
Facing an estimated 800 sexual-abuse lawsuits in California, Roman Catholic officials have argued that the church learned only in recent years that it had a widespread problem with priests molesting children.

A report in February by the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, for example, said Cardinal Roger M. Mahony and other bishops didn't realize until 1985 that sexual abuse by clergy was "more than a matter of tragic but isolated incidents."
But a North Carolina priest and two former monks who live in Southern California say they have scoured ancient Vatican records and forgotten Latin texts to show just the opposite: that the church has recognized the problem of abuse by priests for at least 1,700 years and has failed to address it successfully.
"The contention that the present scandal is isolated to this era is completely debunked by the Roman Catholic Church's own documents," concluded Father Thomas P. Doyle and former monks Richard Sipe and Patrick Wall in their 375-page report, "Canonical History of Clerical Sexual Abuse." The authors finished the report last month and are looking for a publisher.

Doyle, now a retired military chaplain, co-wrote a seminal report to U.S. bishops in 1985, warning of problems with abusive priests. Sipe counseled hundreds of abusive priests before he left the clergy. Wall, who heard molestation cases against priests when he served on the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis tribunal council, now works for a plaintiff's attorney.

Church defenders, pointing out that the three authors are allied with or paid by lawyers representing molestation plaintiffs, charge that the report is a ploy to strengthen their hand in court.

"Follow the money," said Peter Michael Callahan, an attorney representing the Diocese of Orange. "What's their motivation? They are professional witnesses who have a position to sell. It's not exactly impartial scholarship."

But the three men say the documents prove that the Catholic Church has known for centuries about molesters in its ranks and has no excuse for failing to take the danger to children seriously until scandal engulfed the church in 2002.

For example, in the 4th century, St. Basil of Caesarea set up a detailed system of punishment to deal with clerics at his monastery who molested boys. Perpetrators were to be flogged and put in chains for six months; they were never again allowed unsupervised interaction with minors.

In the 13th century, Pope Gregory IX added to church law a declaration that sexual abuse demanded expulsion from the priesthood and that perpetrators would be turned over to secular authorities.

"Canonical History" lists 58 high-level documents dealing with sexual misconduct of the clergy — from books by saints to papal decrees to declarations by church councils — as evidence.

One landmark document, published by Pope Benedict XIV in 1741, made it easier to punish priests who solicited sex during confession in exchange for absolution. The tone of the document showed "significant sensitivity to the spiritual damage done to solicited penitents," the authors wrote.

And to ensure the latest church legislation was widely read, the pope ordered it posted on the doors of churches in Rome, including St. Peter's, and at the city's largest market.

Those rules became part of the canon law studied by 20th century priests and stayed in force until 1962, when Vatican officials opted for a more secretive process.

In that year, Pope John XXIII approved the publication of a procedure that instructed bishops to require those involved in the investigations, including the accuser and witnesses, to take vows of secrecy. Even the 1962 document itself was to be kept by bishops in their secret archives, and they were ordered not to discuss it.

Catholic scholars and others agree that sexual misconduct by priests has been an age-old concern. But they have doubts whether current Catholic bishops were conscious of the long history of sexual abuse within the church.

"Doyle and Sipe, whose work I know, are responsible and courageous men, but they are on a crusade," said R. Scott Appleby, a history professor at Notre Dame University. Appleby said most bishops are neither historians nor theologians, and that "it is unreasonable to think they should be aware of the longer history of the problem."

Beyond influencing the debate over church policy, the report could have an effect on massive litigation the church is facing in California by challenging a key 1987 appellate decision. Justices of the state's 2nd District Court of Appeal ruled that "it would defy every notion of logic and fairness" to say that Catholic bishops should have foreseen the problem of sexual abuse by priests and that therefore the church cannot be held liable.

That case — brought by a woman who said she was raped by seven Los Angeles priests as a teenager and impregnated — has been cited by California Catholic dioceses in hundreds of legal motions involving sexual abuse lawsuits in attempts to relieve the church of liability.

Plaintiff attorneys say they hope to use evidence in the new report to overturn this decision. They used the argument for the first time this month during a three-day mock trial in Los Angeles staged by plaintiff attorneys to focus public attention on California molestation cases.

"It devastates the church's argument that 'We had no idea this was happening' and that 'No priest would ever do this,' " said Larry Drivon, a Stockton attorney who represents hundreds of alleged victims of clergy sexual abuse in California.

But church attorney Callahan, who represents the Diocese of Orange in nearly 100 cases now in mediation, said that most studies show the molestation rate within the Catholic clergy to be 3% to 5%.

Said Callahan: "Is that foreseeable or an aberration?"

 
 
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