(This is for an article on AE about the Italian Empire)
In 476, the Roman Empire was overthrown. Well, in the west anyway. Romulus Augustulus was replaced by Odoacar, the king of the Goths. He occupied all of Italy, and declared himself king. After his conquest, he was determined to restore the Western Roman Empire under Italian command. Though initially under the influence of Constantinople in the East, he eventually broke that and kept Italy to himself. The Eastern Roman Empire eventually asked another Gothic leader, Theodoric to invade Italy.
He promptly did, and defeated Odoacar, taking the Italian crown for himself. He himself was also guilty was separating from Eastern influence. The East became infuriated at their failure to reunite Rome and Constantinople. But eventually, Theodoric died, and weak kings took the royal purple of Italy. Justinian, referred by most as the last emperor of the Roman Empire, was determined to restore the boundaries of a reunited Roman Empire. So, in 536, general Belisarius invaded Italy. But it wasn't until 547 that Italy actually finally fell to Byzantine rule.
This was the last time Italy would be united under one ruler, for the Lombards attacked Italy and conquered nearly a 1/3rd of Italy. And soon enough, Byzantine influence was to be expelled from Italy. And even if the Italians shared a common heritage and culture, they did not feel united, even if they rediscovered their unity under Roman civilization in the Renaissance. And even if Italian city-states evolved into empires (like Venice and Genoa), they were not strong enough to repell foreign attacks as French, Spanish, and Austrian armies constantly occupied Italian territory.
Austria had the most influence in Italy, by Napoleon (one of the greatest of all Italian generals) invaded Italy in 1798-1801. Venice was not strong enough; weakened by wars with the Ottoman Empire and the discovery of new trade routes. Genoa was partially responsible for this and her own decline (which was enhanced by wars with Venice) when a Genoese man, Christopher Colombus discovered new land in 1492. The Kingdom of Naples was backwards in time as feufalism dominated the land. Sardinia was under Spanish authority. Piemonte was under Austrian influence, as was Florence. Papal States were simply weak. And none of the Italian states were willing to unite!
However, Napoleon changed all of that. He redrew the map of Italy and made much of disunited Italy as one. He united the land by the same law code. And most significantly, he called the people as Italians, not Piemontese, or Sicilians are was accostomed. And this placed loyalty to him, and the idea of a united country. After Napoleon's final defeat in 1815, the dream of reunification was temporarily put down as Italy was deemed as a mere "geographic expression." But the dream of a united Italy never died.
A leader named Mazzini took matters into his own hands and formed a group called "Young Italy." He and a large number of volunteers wanted a unified Italy by mass rebellion against overlords. He, followed by the future hero Guiseppe Garibaldi revolted against the Sardinian government in Genoa. It failed, but it never died. Because, in 1848, a series of revolts around Europe inspired insurrection against the Austrian Empire in Italy. Austrian troops in Milan killed 61 people. The people were fed up, and people took as many arms possible against the 20,000 Austrian forces.
In a stunning rebellion, Austrian troops were routed from Milan beginning the Revolution of 1848 in Italy, or the First Italian War of Independence. The Sardinian army joined the fight, and attacked Austrian forces, which were defeated and withdrew back to Austria, except a few places like Venice. Venice, under Daniele Manin revolted too, and drove out the Austrians. Rome rebelled against the pope, who fled to Naples, who were already preoccupied with the first rebellion in Italy, Sicily. Naples had a Spanish King, and he was unwilling to help the Sicilian poverty situation. All of Italy was in revolt against Austria. Even Naples for a time joined in.
The Neapolitan, Sardinian, and Venetian fleets fought against the Imperial Austrian fleet, which was blockading Venice. They drew it back to Trieste, and were blockaded themselves. However, in light of the papal revolts, the Neapolitan Navy withdrew to Naples. And the Royal Sardinian Navy left too, as Radetsky counterattacked and defeated the Italians at Costozza (which was an Italian defeat because Naples withdrew from there as well). In 1849, Sardinia broke the armistice and invaded once again, but was defeated at Novara, and Charles Albert, king of Sardinia abdicated in favor of his son. Though Victor Emannuel II, the new king dared to defy the Austrians, he honored the surrender terms.
Which meant the revolution was done for. Venice was once again placed under siege, both at sea, and by land. Diseases filled the area. The situation seemed even more hopeless when, in Sicily, the rebellion was crushed by the massive bombardment of Ferdinand. In Rome, Garibaldi managed to defeat French troops and Neapolitan forces. However, do to Mazzini's instructions, the Roman Republic should have "peaceable relations with our friends, the French Republic." French troops returned in massive force, and crushed the revolt. Garibaldi fled to Venice, which also surrendered, and he left for America.
The Italian fire refused to die, as Sardinia, the only nation outside Austrian influence, rallied once again to reunite the country. Cavour, prime minister of Sardinia, Mazzini, and Garibaldi (who returned from exile) agreed on a constitutional monarchy and French aid for helping the country unite. In 1859, after a sealed alliance with France, the Second Italian War of Independence began, as French and Italian troops attacked Austria, and defeated them in several battles. Emperor Napoleon III of France, however, withdrew from the alliance after the death toll, and Italy had to settle only on Lombardy. But within the course of the year, all of northern Italy agreed for an Italian union, and Garibaldi conquered Two Sicilies by 1861
Victor Emannuel II was declared Italy's first king. But Italy wasn't really untied yet, as Venice and Rome continued to elude Italian sovereignty. Italy aligned with Prussia against Austria in the Seven Weeks war, and though suffering humilating defeats, nevertheless defeated Austria in several battles and recieved Venetia as the prize. In 1870, French troops were embroiled against Prussia in a war and withdrew soldiers from Rome (and Garibaldi joined the French side in France against Prussia). Rome was occupied by Italian troops and Italy was finally reunited.
A new era would arise for the newly reunited Italy, which would lead to the rise of the Italian Empire.
‘‘Italy unfortunately has been long excluded from the number of European powers. If Italians today are worthy of resuming their rights, someday they will see their country arise with glory among the powers of the earth.’’--Napoleone Buonaparte
‘‘Italy unfortunately has been long excluded from the number of European powers. If Italians today are worthy of resuming their rights, someday they will see their country arise with glory among the powers of the earth.’’--Napoleone Buonaparte
"Napoleon was born one year after Genoese succession to France. His parents were ethnic Italians, as was the entire population of the island then."
How does that make him an italian. Corsicans are pretty much mixed up as a people, Napoleon himself is known to have greek input and corsican are far from being italians. Italians themselves varies from regions to regions. But culturally we all know he was french and born in corsica, and ironically under Napoleon Corsica became a department of France until now. I'll agree a Sardinian might roughly be considered as an italian at that time (although that's not entirely true, Sardinia was an independent kingdom) but corsica far from that. Funny to call an ancientr french emperor an italian, it's like if you are calling some of the English King or Queen from the house of Hapsburg as Austrian.
The Corsican population was all Italian, WTH do you expect, for them to be German? Napoleon himself spoke Italian as his first language because his parents spoke only Italian. His name was Napoleone Buonaparte obiously an Italian name. Hell, Italy claims him as an Italian. And hey, when Napoleon was younger, he hated the French. http://www.didyouknow.cd/napoleon.htm He even planned on invading Italy and using it as his base for conquests if his invasion of France (after the hundred days) was unsuccessful.
‘‘Italy unfortunately has been long excluded from the number of European powers. If Italians today are worthy of resuming their rights, someday they will see their country arise with glory among the powers of the earth.’’--Napoleone Buonaparte
>>The Corsican population was all Italian, WTH do you expect, for them to be German?
LOL corsican aren't italian but more a mixture of goth, estrucan, Franks(Lombards) and vandals. THey don't even speak italian but a dialect related to italian.
>> Napoleon himself spoke Italian as his first language because his parents spoke only Italian.
Nope his parents spoke corsicans not italian and they were italian but corsicans, corsicans usually have names that sound italians because the corsican is related to italians.
>> His name was Napoleone Buonaparte obiously an Italian name.
Nope it's a corsican name. Which by the way he changed to Napoleon Bonaparte and all his descendents would have the french version of the name not the corsican one.
>>Hell, Italy claims him as an Italian.
ROFL what else italy can do apart from claiming the french emperor.
>> And hey, when Napoleon was younger, he hated the French.
And yet he grew to love France and fought hard for the glory of France. If Napoleon has had it's way all of italy and western germany would have been under french dominion not italian dominion. Think about it
>>http://www.didyouknow.cd/napoleon.htm He even planned on invading Italy and using it as his base for conquests if his invasion of France (after the hundred days) was unsuccessful.
ROFL invasion of France what the hell are you talking about. Napoleon couldn't invade a rock without the french people and Generals, he is nothing without France. In fact Napoleon is pretty much overrated his Marechals were the one with the actual skills. The fact is the republicans victories were total and all the skill was gained during the revolutionary wars. In fact Napaleon is more a miserable failure, losing all that was conquered during the revolutionary wars.
LOL corsican aren't italian but more a mixture of goth, estrucan, Franks(Lombards) and vandals. THey don't even speak italian but a dialect related to italian.
Let me give you a few notes. Corsica was not taken by the Goths, nor the Franks (though yes to the Lombards, who were DIFFERENT peoples). Besides, those were all very ANCIENT times. But when Napoleon was born, it was all Italian (since it was occupied by the Genoese Empire), the language was Italian. Maybe today the dialect is related to Italian, but that's probably due to French influence after the French occupation.
Nope his parents spoke corsicans not italian and they were italian but corsicans, corsicans usually have names that sound italians because the corsican is related to italians.
They spoke ITALIAN because Corsica was under Italian occupation since the Romans. After the Romans the papacy took it, and then Pisa gave it to Genoa, where it remained under their control until the French forced them to sell it. The people spoke ITALIAN. "Corsican" came after French troops came in, and the French language's influence made it that way. This is the truth.
Nope it's a corsican name. Which by the way he changed to Napoleon Bonaparte and all his descendents would have the french version of the name not the corsican one.
Once again, it's Italian because ITALIAN was spoken o Corsica at the time. And did you ever realize WHY he changed his name? He had to because the French hated the people of Corsica, and the only way he could be accepted is if he changed it to a French name. Simple as that.
ROFL what else italy can do apart from claiming the french emperor.
Proved it, he's an Italian general, and it's plainly seen.
And yet he grew to love France and fought hard for the glory of France. If Napoleon has had it's way all of italy and western germany would have been under french dominion not italian dominion. Think about it
LOL, he didn't have any choice. And, let me remind you, that Napoleon wanted to lead a REBELLION against France in Corsica, but Paoli refused him. So, in reality, if Napoleon really did have his way, he would be king of Corsica. "Technically" it was an "invasion" (his return to France) though it really wasn't. The guy is an Italian general, and you underrate him.
Here is more on Napoleon's family:
“Definition:
Napoleon Bonaparte was born as Napoleon Buonaparte, the second son of a Corsican family with dual Italian heritage: his father Carlo descended from Francesco Buonaparte, a Florentine who had emigrated in the mid-sixteenth century. Napoleon's mother was a Ramolino, a family who arrived in Corsica c. 1500. For a while Carlo, his wife and their children were all Buonapartes, but a growing French influence on both Corsica, and the family, caused them to adopt the French version of their name: Bonaparte.
France gained control of Corsica in 1768, sending an army and a governor who would both play key roles in Napoleon's life. Carlo certainly became close friends with the Comte de Marbeuf, the French ruler of Corsica, while the elder children were educated in France; however, they remained almost wholly Buonaparte. It was only in 1793 that the use of Bonaparte begins to grow in frequency, thanks largely to Napoleon's failure in Corsican politics and the family's consequent flight to France, where they initially lived in poverty. Of course, Napoleon soon found success, first as an artillery commander and then in the triumphant Italian Campaign of 1795-6, whereupon he changed almost permanently to Bonaparte. Other members of his family followed as their lives became intertwined with the high-politics of France.
The changing of the family name from Italian to French seems clearly political in retrospect: as members of an up-and-coming dynasty who ruled France it made perfect sense to appear French and adopt French affectations. However, there's little evidence to suggest that there was ever a deliberate, family-wide, decision to rename themselves, and the constant and subversive effects of living amongst French culture should not be discounted. Carlo's death in 1785, well before the use of Bonaparte became even remotely common, may also have been an enabling factor.
Readers may wish to note that a similar process happened to the Buonaparte children's first names: Joseph was born Giuseppe, Napoleon was Napoleone and so on. See any entry on the Bonaparte's for a full list. http://europeanhistory.about.com/library/readyref/bldefbuonaparte.htm”
“Napoléon initially considered himself a foreigner and an outsider, not learning the French language until the age of ten; accusations of being a foreigner would dog him throughout his life, especially since he spoke French with an Italian accent. He had become an officer in the French army when the French Revolution began in 1789. Napoléon returned to Corsica, where a nationalist struggle sought separation from France. Civil war broke out, and Napoléon's family fled to France. Napoléon supported the Revolution and quickly rose through the ranks. In 1793, he freed Toulon from the royalists and from the British troops supporting them. In 1795, when royalists marched against the National Convention in Paris, he had them shot.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_Bonaparte
Sorry Eryx, but you're the only one that sees the Corsican language of the day as Italian.
This message has been edited by AzzurroItalia on Jul 13, 2004 4:02 PM
ROFL, dude Napoleon isn't italian get over it, he is corsican. Anyway Napoleon king of Corsica you must be kidding me and what he gonna do as king of Corsica ROFL. Why don't you find another italian General living in italy and fighting for Italy, rather than trying to say the french emperor is italian, for the fvck sake he is the french emperor. It;s like you claiming Queen Elizabeth is German because he is from german royal line.
Actually I was reading an interesting article about this topic. Don't know howfar it's a correct story (you judge that)..
The article (in Greek) said that in 1676, 800 Greeks from Mani (a part of Greece that was never conquered by the Turks) left their homelands and decided to settle them selves in Corsica (of the 800 only 700 survived the journey)..
They settled themselves in Paomia (Greek name, I don't know the Corisican name) which lies 50km from the capital of Corisica..
The Genovese who occupied the island forced the Greeks to change their last names in Italian ones eg. Papadakis became Papadacci, Drakakis became Dracacci...
In 1729 the Corsicans rebelled against Genua, however the people from Mani refused to fight and resisted fiercely.
They attempted an exit, because their food run out during the siege and in 1731 they settled themselves in the capital of Corsica.
In 1768 the Genovese sold the island to the French. The French count Marbef (I don't know his French name) gave to these Greeks the area of Gargeze (again I just translated the name phonetically).. The locals never accepted the Greeks and the result was fights (vendettas)..
The same article sais something about Napoleon too. I find it interesting, but it could be a bit farfetched..
The same artcile sais that Napoleon Bonaparte had Greek blood running through his vaines (this theory wasn't made in Greece, but in Corsica. Untill a couple of days ago I never had heard of this theory). During the periode of 1731-1775, the Greeks had settled themselves in the capital of Corsica. It was in this period that the father of Napoleon, Carolos Bonaparte (Charles Bonaparte) had a close friendship with the family of Panoria Stefanopoulou, he even died in her hands.. The daugther of this Panoria, Laoura Stefanopoulou (also known as the dutchess D'Arbantes), did wright in her memoires -which Napoleon never denied- that whenever they were in the house of Carolos Bonaparte they talked in Greek with him. She even wites that an ancestor of Bonaparte had links with the Stefanopoulos-family, and whos name was Kalomeros. When this man migrated to Toscane he changed (he translated) his name in Buona Parte..
This theory -that Napoleon was a Greek Maniatis- is also supported by a French professor and ambassadeur in Munich, a mister Hanin. He writes Napoleon was during his reign was very interested in the Greeks of Corsica, in contradiction to the local Corsicans, against whom he was especially harsh. The general wrote during his stay at the military academy of Briene le Sato the "Memoires sur l’education des jeunes Maniotes"...
As I mentioned before, I read this article in Greek. So you have to excuse me for my poor translation. I'll try to find an English source...
Again I never claimed he was Greek, just wanted to share with you this theory..
"Death smiles at us all. All a man can do is smile back."
- Gladiator -
This message has been edited by PINDOS on Jul 14, 2004 8:49 AM
In 565 B.C. after Ionia was conquired by the Persians the Fokians have founded their first colony, the city Alalias.
The second colony was founded in the 17-th century by the Maniot family Stefanopoulos from Itilou. This happened after the end of vendetta between this family and another powerful Maniot kin of the Yatrians (Medici). 700 people left Mani and went by sea to Genoa. There after some negotiations with the Genoa administration and after accepting the Italian conditions they went to Corsica.
In five years the colonists built a village Paomia where they were engaged in agriculture and weavery. They lived in a close society and got married only between themselves.
Very soon clashes with Corsicans began. After the Maniots have refused to support the Corsicans in one of the local uprisings against the Genoa administration they were forced to leave their village and move to another one, to Aiaccio. 44 years later after Corsica was sold to France the Maniots returned to their original area and settled in the new village Cargese.
During the French revolution as well as during the reign of Napoleon the French protected the Greek population of Corsica. According to recollections of Laura Stefanopoulos the family of Bonaparte came from the kin of the Kalomeros, a branch of the Stefanopoulos. The Kalomeros first settled in the Toscana region.
Later one member of this family moved to the village Aiaccio and became an ancestor of the Corsican family of the Bonaparte’s. After the death of Carl Bonaparte general Dimitrios Stefanopoulos (according to recollections) was a guardian of orphan Napoleon.
Though the residents of Cargese don't speak Greek they have Greek consciousness and mentality. Their central street is named Mani, old people still sing songs about Mani and in the St. Spiridon's church built in the Greek style one can hear Greek psalms.
In 1986 for the first time the villagers of Cargese as real worshippers visited the city of Itilos.
Author:Koutsianou Sterjani
(Meetings arranged by the administration of Kalomaris «Greek Communities»).
"
Strange as it may sound the talks about the Greek origin of Napoleon Bonaparte were not initiated by the Greeks and have nothing to do with the Greek vanity. The legend about his Greek origin was born on Corsica.
Let events speak for themselves. It has already been mentioned that the Maniots left Paomia and for 44 years (1731-1775) lived in Aiaccio, the capital of Corsica. It was exactly the period when Napoleon was born and raised.
Napoleon’s father Carl Bonaparte was a close friend of the family of Panoria Stefanopoulos, widow of Permno, a supplier of the French army. Their friendship was so close that when Carl died Panoria was the one to close his eyes. Panorias daughter Laura Stefanopoulos, Juno’s wife, was known as Countess D’Abrantes. In her "Recollections" she mentioned about the details of Napoleon’s family life which Napoleon never argued.
"In the Bonaparte’s house we spoke Greek with the Napoleon’s father… Bonaparte’s ancestor by name of Kalomeros (from the Stefanopoulos’ kin) had moved from Aiaccio to the Toscana region. There his Greek name was changed into an Italian and sounded like Bona Parte, that was a literate translation from Greek to Italian.
The same happened with the Medici family, which in Italian sounded like Medici. The Medici was an influential Maniot family. Later on the Toscana Bonaparte’s returned to Aiaccio and became ancestors of this family on Corsica." Laura, the Countess of D’Abrantes, continues: "There is another characteristic case: "Stefanopoulos-Komninos" when speaking of the Bonaparte’s always used their Greek name Kalomeros, Kalomeri or Kalomerians, depending on whether they talked about one man or many men!"
In Aiaccio the Napoleon’s family was on friendly terms with other Maniot families. Before the French Revolution when the family of Napoleon was still insignificant one French professor and ambassador in Munich by name Hanin studied the genealogy of this family and wrote that the Corsican family of Bonaparte had Greek roots.
There some other facts that also support this theory. When an orphan Napoleon at the age of 15 came to Paris for the first time to continue his education he was met by Dimitrios Stefanopoulos-Komninos. This prominent Greek was known not only on Corsica but in France also. He was a brother of Panoria Stefanopoulos and a close friend of Napoleon’s father Carl Bonaparte.
Dimitrios Stefanopoulos acted as a guardian of Napoleon who at that time was a student at the Military School Briene Le Sato. It is rather peculiar that the first scholar work of Napoleon had a rather characteristic title: "Memoires sur l’education des jeunes Maniotes" ("Recollections on the unpbringing of young Maniots").
Already in his early years the future legendary general and conqueror was greatly impressed by the proud and strong Maniots whom he saw in the streets of Aiaccio. Wearing their traditional dresses, special wide pants, fezzes and waistcoats, they served in the militia of the Corsican capital and fought the local rebels.
In the years of his omnipotence Napoleon showed much milder attitude to the Corsican Maniots and enslaved Greeks than to the local Corsicans.
In Greece the version about the Napoleon’s origin was discussed for the first time after the publication of the poem "Wanderer" by Alexander Soutso in which the poet spoke about the Greek blood that ran in the veins of the great man.
They say that once Napoleon was asked about his origin (the question was probably raised due to his "insignificant" past). And the answer was: "I started my family!". (He certainly couldn’t speak publicly about his Greek origin).
Magazine "Adouloti Mani", summer of 1997, an article on Corsican Maniots
"Death smiles at us all. All a man can do is smile back."
- Gladiator -
@Pindos
The thing that I don't understand is that the Greeks never colonized Corsica, only the Etruscans did. Except, only about one little Village called Cargese. And BTW, I think the one who mace up the theory should know, Carlo Buonaparte was born in Italy, as was Letizia. Something to think about http://europeanhistory.about.com/library/readyref/bldefbuonaparte.htm This is something that may help with it all, with the Buonaparte family.
@Eryx ROFL, dude Napoleon isn't italian get over it, he is corsican. Anyway Napoleon king of Corsica you must be kidding me and what he gonna do as king of Corsica ROFL. Why don't you find another italian General living in italy and fighting for Italy, rather than trying to say the french emperor is italian, for the fvck sake he is the french emperor. It;s like you claiming Queen Elizabeth is German because he is from german royal line.
Stop being so paranoid. Just because you can't prove yourself right it doesn't mean that you have to start witht he personal attacks. Get a life, man.
This message has been edited by AzzurroItalia on Jul 14, 2004 12:13 PM This message has been edited by AzzurroItalia on Jul 14, 2004 12:07 PM
It really bothers me though, that some ultranationalistic Greeks (not you guys) have to claim Napoleon by changing history. Facts are facts, his mother moved in from Italy, and his father was the son of an Italian who recently immigrated to Corsica. But it really does piss me off a LOT, you guys already have a spectacular heritage, why claim someone elses? This Greek is even claiming the MEDICI family!
‘‘Italy unfortunately has been long excluded from the number of European powers. If Italians today are worthy of resuming their rights, someday they will see their country arise with glory among the powers of the earth.’’--Napoleone Buonaparte
I never claimed him of being Greek. In my eyes Napoleon is French, why? simple, he build up France, fought for that country, lost for that country and eventually died on an island because of that country.
Nevertheless I find the theory interesting and wanted to share it with you..
Another thing Azzuro, this theory wasn't made up in Greece!! Learn to read sources, before you start to spread you poisoned replies (ultra-nationalist Greeks!!??!!??!!)...
This theory has its followers in Corsica -the Maniates who migrated over there 400 years ago-, not in Greece -as I mentioned earlier, I never heard of this theoryn untill a couple of days ago-.... Again it was not a Greek who studied the genealogical tree of Napoleon -it was a French man-....
So please Azzuro, next time read something before you actually decide to reply on it with such harsh words...
And again, I never said he was Greek.... So calm down!!
"Death smiles at us all. All a man can do is smile back."
- Gladiator -
This message has been edited by PINDOS on Jul 14, 2004 1:35 PM
Pindos
I was not talkig about you, I know you didn't claim him! Sorry if I offended yuo, I was pissed out of my mind, I take the ultranationalist Greek stuff back. (BTW, I know it originated in Corsica, but by a GREEK in Corsica)
This message has been edited by AzzurroItalia on Jul 14, 2004 9:26 PM
"Stop being so paranoid. Just because you can't prove yourself right it doesn't mean that you have to start witht he personal attacks. Get a life, man."
I'm the one paranoid, I'm not the one claiming the french emperor is italian. I would care less about his origin in fact, but saying Napoleon is italian kind of me think you italians do not have any great general fighting for italy since the fall of rome. And Napoleon wasn't the first person with an italian name (name that he changed to a french version) that fought for France against italy(if you can call that italy more like some kingdom). I;ve seen a campaign where a french army was lead by a Marechal of italian origin (well that still make him a frenchman) against an italian army lead by a frenchman. And to be italian , Napoleon need to be born in italy (and at that time italy didn't even exist, and was just a mosaic of independent kingdoms) and last the italians is far from being a race. Don't give me the crap Napoleon was etruscan, you wouldn't have a clue whether you are etruscan, italic, and the waves of other europeans that settled north italy and normans in sicily.
Oh, is that a fact Eryx? As I recall, you were born in Australia, not France, so I guess you're not French? And also, there were great Italian generals since Rome. Have you ever heard of Giuseppe Garibaldi? You know, the only general fighting on France's side that actually won victories for France against Prussia? How about General Armando Diaz? He was a general who held one of the most spectacular offensives in history, and is acclaimed as a great general. There are so many of them, especially since several empires blossomed from Venice, Genoa, Amalfi, and Naples. And what does France have other than Napoleon?
‘‘Italy unfortunately has been long excluded from the number of European powers. If Italians today are worthy of resuming their rights, someday they will see their country arise with glory among the powers of the earth.’’--Napoleone Buonaparte
Oh, is that a fact Eryx? As I recall, you were born in Australia, not France, so I guess you're not French?
I was born in France dude, but lived in australia. If was born in australia but of french decent I'll be australian. In fact I considered myself Franco-australian and my culture is basically australian.
And also, there were great Italian generals since Rome. Have you ever heard of Giuseppe Garibaldi? You know, the only general fighting on France's side that actually won victories for France against Prussia?
What? Dude, France has defeated Prussia time and time over since the dawn of time. France has suffered some catastrophic against Prussia thus the myth France has never defeated Prussia. Defeating Prussia was routine during the revolutionary wars and Napoleonic wars. I've heard of Garibaldi but I've neverheard of any of his exploit that was worth being mentioned in the atlas of european wars.
And what does France have other than Napoleon?
LOL, history is full of great french general dude. You want a list.
1. Turenne (listed by other great General such Napoleon as one of history greatest, Malborough was one of his student during the brief alliance btw France and England). That's my avatar also.
2. Vauban, you must have heard siege a la vauban. City attacked by Vauban city taken, city defended by Vauban city impregnable.
3. Compte De Saxe (there is another one but he lead the austrian), inflicted a severe defeat on Cumberland at the battle of Fontenoy and again defeated the combined anglo-german forces lead by Cumberland at the battle of Laeffelt.
4. Moreau, the hero of Tourcoing
5. Dumouriez the hero of Valmy
6. Kellermann
7. St Cyr (one undefeated General), school name after him in france.
8. Lannes, great Marechal in fact I believe the success of the french army buring the Napoleonic war was due to great french generals rather than the Napoleon.
9.Conde, Rocroi
10. De Lanrezac, Marne WW1.
Consider this a summary.
This message has been edited by Eric_De_La_Legion on Jul 15, 2004 8:13 AM This message has been edited by Eric_De_La_Legion on Jul 15, 2004 8:06 AM
