Concidering region, and especially population i beleive and not that im Greek that nothing can ever match the Ancient Greeks perfection in all areas of humanity.
War, architecture, language (12% used in English), science, mathematics, sports, and politics, both democracy and monarchy, and the desire for perfection in all fields.
"Everyone has the jitters, seeing objects swimming about at night, and hearing movements on ships' bottoms. It must stop!"- Admiral Sir Andrew Cunningham, Commander in Chief of Britain's Mediterranean Fleet
Growing up in the west I was taught Greek literature and culture. But later I learned about Persia, which I was surprised how this was not taught in school. Unlike Greece Persia was a consistent power which has always produced progressive people. Iran was a place of progress even before Greece. And after Alexander the Greeks mostly declined while Persia rebuilt and continued to thrive against Rome, but in America they teach that Rome was the sole power of the time. Then the Arabs invaded, but Persia rebuilt, though they had to adopt a new religion, yet they continued to thrived while the west was stuck in the dark ages sucking on their backward Jewish/Christian ideology. Persians were instrumental in saving Greek documents while the west was in the dark ages, and Muslims studied Greek works, although that was only one part of their studies. Unfortunately many Persian libraries and knowledge was destroyed by invaders and ignorant people, even today with the war in Iraq and looting of museums, and also in Iran some archeological sites were looted due to ignorant people. But suffice it to say that considering how Persia was a major power for so long, and given our progressive culture, and considering our geography which had contact with east and west, we must have had many achievements and fascinating history that are unaccounted for. And there are still many known achievements and history which are extraordinary on their own yet they are ignored by the west out of ignorance and political motives.
Excuse the Persian response. I do like Greece and visited once when I was very young. Their literature, culture, polytheism, which gave humans Godly traits and vice versa, their music, and their beautiful landscape. But they certainly did not save western civilization from Persia, since there was nothing worth saving, and their philosophers were no where as smart as they are portrayed in the west, and neither was their democracy which ignorant people are automatically conditioned to think is progressive per se. Actually western civilization is more related to Semitic culture in many ways. However, the good things in western civilization are from Persian culture. For example, knights and chivalry was Persian. Human rights was Persian. So much more. Maybe some of the Persians can contribute and we can have a flame war with the Greeks and get this out of our system once and for all.
Anyways, Persians were Zoroastrian and the Judaism/Christianity/Islam were perversions of Zoroastrianism and put humanity back and contributed filthy ideology that was more in line with backwardness than progress. And when the Arabs took over Persians reformed them and Islam became the progressive force of the time. Unfortunately Greeks lost their polytheism to Christianity of all things and Persians lost their Zoroastrianism to Islam, though the essence of our culture still exists, which are worth to keep, not necessarily as an ideological tool but rather a historical context and stories which we can learn from. Having lived in the west and experienced Persian culture and history even today with all their technological advances and high standard of living the western mentality is still backwards, and a major waste to humanity considering all the people they have exterminated and all the resources they have stolen, and they continue to do so as if it is normal, which for them it is.
"I will be having coffe in Athens in a week"-Benito Mussolini.
Well six months later he lost half of Albania to us, you pathetic individual.
Offend my history again and i will spank you again with facts, like my grandfathers spanked yours with weapons.
Start a flame again and i will have a chat with the mods on your behalf.
To Zahak i anticipated such enlightened comments, and i thank you.
You must remember our population, you guyz had hundreds of different nations and tribes and cultures to derive acheivements, and yes we did save the west with 300 brave men, because the Golden Age of Athens had not yet began.
Hence if they did not stand and die Athens would never have acheived wat it eventually did.
This message has been edited by SpartanSoldier on Jul 8, 2005 7:56 AM
>You must remember our population, you guyz had hundreds of different nations and tribes and cultures to derive achievements…
True. We were open to new ideas and allowing people to live and keep their culture, which often times in ancient days, and even in modern history there were exterminations of whole populations.
>…yes we did save the west with 300 brave men, because the Golden Age of Athens had not yet began.
I’m not convinced that if Persia conquered Greece there would not have been a Golden Age. Still, I don't like murdering invaders, and Persia should be no exception.
This message has been edited by zahak on Jul 8, 2005 2:12 PM This message has been edited by zahak on Jul 8, 2005 2:10 PM
"Shut up. All these Greek topics are getting annoying."
To: AzzuroItalia and the rest of the Europeans
Hearing about the achievements of our ancestors is not to make us new Greeks proud, but for all of us Europeans to honour these ancient people for their resilience and spirit of freedom which helped their values to survive and become our values.
We would spend our time these days not exchanging ideas over the Word Wide Web but praying in a mosque, bowing to God and the King of the Kings with our face kissing the ground and our ass looking at the sky …
__________________________________
Answer of the Athenians to the Persians when they asked them to collaborate against the rest of the Greeks:
"We know, as well as thou dost, that the power of the Mede is many times greater than our own: we did not need to have that cast in our teeth. Nevertheless we cling so to freedom that we shall offer what resistance we may. Seek not to persuade us into making terms with the barbarian - say what thou wilt, thou wilt never gain our assent. Return rather at once, and tell Mardonius that our answer to him is this:- 'So long as the sun keeps his present course, we will never join alliance with Xerxes. Nay, we shall oppose him unceasingly, trusting in the aid of those gods and heroes whom he has lightly esteemed, whose houses and whose images he has burnt with fire.' come not thou again to us with words like these; nor, thinking to do us a service, persuade us to unholy actions. Thou art the guest and friend of our nation - we would not that thou shouldst receive hurt at our hands." Herodotus Histories [8.143]
Answer of the Athenians to the Spartans when the latter got anxious that the Athenians might collaborate with the Persians:
"'Twas natural no doubt that the Lacedaemonians should be afraid we might make terms with the barbarian; but nevertheless It was a base fear in men who knew so well of what temper and spirit we are. Not all the gold that the whole earth contains - not the fairest and most fertile of all lands - would bribe us to take part with the Medes and help them to enslave our countrymen. Even could we anyhow have brought ourselves to such a thing, there are many very powerful motives which would now make it impossible. The first and chief of these is the burning and destruction of our temples and the images of our gods, which forces us to make no terms with their destroyer, but rather to pursue him with our resentment to the uttermost. Again, there is our common brotherhood with the Greeks: our common language, the altars and the sacrifices of which we all partake, the common character which we bear - did the Athenians betray all these, of a truth it would not be well. Know then now, if ye have not known it before, that while one Athenian remains alive, we will never join alliance with Xerxes. We thank you, however, for your forethought on our behalf, and for your wish to give our families sustenance, now that ruin has fallen on us - the kindness is complete on your part; but for ourselves, we will endure as we may, and not be burdensome to you. Such then is our resolve. Be it your care with all speed to lead out your troops; for if we surmise aright, the barbarian will not wait long ere he invade our territory, but will set out so soon as he learns our answer to be, that we will do none of those things which he requires of us. Now then is the time for us, before he enters Attica, to go forth ourselves into Boeotia, and give him battle."
Herodotus Histories [8.144]
Krateros
This message has been edited by Krateros on Jul 8, 2005 3:20 PM
Offend my history again and i will spank you again with facts, like my grandfathers spanked yours with weapons.
This is a free forum, I have the right to speak my mind however I wish.
1)Invasion of Greece? Get over yourselves, if you truly look at the circumstances in which allowed Greece to win, (and I mean not the hyper-nationalistic Greek sites), then you'd be in for quite a surprise. You're pathetic
@Krateros
That's not true, everyone on the forum already knows the achievements of the ancient Greeks, we don't need it drilled in our brains.
Enough of these ancient Greek topics. They get more annoying by the day.
This message has been edited by AzzurroItalia on Jul 8, 2005 8:31 PM This message has been edited by AzzurroItalia on Jul 8, 2005 6:53 PM
