Please no flame. I've reposted Chatmil thread here.

Chatmill said

WTF is all this French are pussies bull****?

Do you english people not even know your own history?

You don't know that a french invader established your whole society? Where do you think your laws are from? Where do you think your entire social structure comes from? Where do you think the title "Lord" comes from?

The French own you.


Stheory replied

The Normans under William the Conqueror who invaded England in 1066 were descended from Scandinavians who in 911 sailed up the Seine and forced the then king of France to cede them territory. They were granted land in Normandy (hence the name) and became vassels of the French crown, though the Norman dukes tended to rule over the Duchy of Normandy like an independent state. Some also conquered parts of Italy and establish various principalities in Southern Italy and Sicily.

(For a brief intro, see this: http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/MA/NORMANS.HTM)

To say that "a French invader" established "the whole of English society" is a real stretch. There was already a functioning Anglo-Saxon English realm (plus Viking influences especially in the north) before the coming of William. The Norman conquest added a new layer of French speaking rulers, but the larger society is still basically Anglo-Saxon. In a few hundred years, even the descendants of the Normans will cease to speak French but "English" instead. In any case, modern England is the outcome of a confluence of Norman-French, Anglo-Saxon, Viking streams building on top of an old Roman-Briton foundation. The French stream is only one part of the heritage

I think Stheory is confused about the matter, the duchy normandy was founded by a group of viking invaders but by 1066 they all had been assimilated by the local population. William the conqueror had little viking blood in him to start with, he was more celtic than scandinavian.

Further the norman invasion wasn't norman but a mixture of norman, breton and french from all around France. And on the tapestry of bayeux, they are not referred to as normans but french. It is clear that the norman viewed themselves as french and only referred to normandy as a place not as a nationality. The normans even referred to the breton as breton but themselves as French.

here is the text written on the tapestry.
Fratres Haroldi regis. Hic ceciderunt simul Angli et Franci in prelio.
Hic odo episcopus baculum tenens conforat pueros. Hic est Willelm dux.
Eustacius. Hic Franci pugnant.
Et ceciderunt qui erant cum Haroldo. Hic Harold rex interfectus est.
Et fuga verterunt Angli


Translation

Brothers of Regent Harod, here died simultaneously English and French in battle.
Here Bishop Odo with a staff in his hand encourages his squires. Here is Duke William.
Eustache, here the French are fighting.
And those who were with Harold died. Here king Harold died.
And the English fled.

Further,england was ravaged by the french invaders, it is estimated 1/3 of the anglo-saxons were killed directly or through starvation and famine. All their land were taken. nearly 200,000 normans and french migrated there. But most of the laws of England didn't come from the norman but from the Angevin (from anjou,west of Paris and south of normandy). Anjou managed to conquer normandy and inherited England in the process, so it is clear Normandy belong to the french sphere and has absolutely nothing to do with scandivians, the normans looked down on the scandinavians and they were treated with contempts just like the anglo-saxons.

--------------------------------------------
We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin

'Further,england was ravaged by the french invaders, it is estimated 1/3 of the anglo-saxons were killed directly or through starvation and famine. All their land were taken. nearly 200,000 normans and french migrated there'

1/3?

200000?

Never one to exagerate are you eryz..lol

If you look at the pictures instead you can see that they still have the viking spirit in them, especially concerning the boates !
But they where probably more french in culture and language so its a draw !













I would have made a good Pope."
- Richard M. Nixon (1913-1994)


"Plato was a bore."
- Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)

LOL ! LOL ! LOL ! LOL !
This is really stupid thread

>>Further,england was ravaged by the french invaders, it is estimated 1/3 of the anglo-saxons were killed directly or through starvation and famine.<<

This isnt true and isnt backed by any credible source. Whilst there was famine in areas of the North, to say that 1/3 of the population of England died is a massive exaggeration. This would make it equal to the Black Death, which it certainly wasnt.

>>nearly 200,000 normans and french migrated there.<<

Most sources indicate that no more than 70,000 Normans, Bretons and Franks migrated to England.

>>All their land were taken.<<

No, not all their land was taken. William didnt even remove all of the old Nobility.

At the height of Norman power these Englishmen/women(not including mixed English-Norman Landowners) still had considerable holdings in England; Thorkill of Arden held land in Worcestershire as did Wulfstan Bishop of Worcester, Countess Godiva who held land in Leicestershire and Warwickshire, Earl Waltheof of Northumbria. Edward of Salisbury and Wulfwold both held land in the Southern counties.





Who is this a picture of?



"Garlic......and bread?? Garlic bread??"

If you look at the pictures instead you can see that they still have the viking spirit in them, especially concerning the boates !
But they where probably more french in culture and language so its a draw !

No this is a frankish boat, vikings boat are lower and longer. And it is not a draw, normans had minimal viking blood in then, by 1066 they were more celtic than scandinavians. The norman sphere was centred around France they rarely deal with the vikings, by 1066, the vikings would have been a strange people to them. The normans were later defeated by the Angevin (Duchy of Anjou) who also inherited the throne of england in the process.


Below is a viking boat, the vikings were a bunch of barbarians raiders incapable of real military organisation unlike the normans whose style of warfare was Frankish, mounted warriors with lance and hammer. The Normans rarely fought with axes as depicted by the tapestry of bayeux, they maces as side arm just like anyone in France. At most the vikingarmy can be called as large warband, that's why Harold smashed the vikings at Stamford bridge. The vikings usually went for soft target and were repeatedly defeated when confronted by a regular army, example Robert Le justicier annilating a large vikings warband at Chartres





















From this picture it is clear that the normans featured a Frankish hairstyle popular all around france and were shaven unlike the viking.


--------------------------------------------
We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin

Quote: 1/3? 200000? Never one to exagerate are you eryz..lol

You'd think, I'm not sure about the exact but read that article from an english historian you'll have an idea of the scale of destruction and the system of apartheid imposed by the Angevin-Franco-Norman onto the population of England.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/lj/conquestlj/conquered_01.shtml?site=history_conquestlj_conquest


--------------------------------------------
We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin

This isnt true and isnt backed by any credible source. Whilst there was famine in areas of the North, to say that 1/3 of the population of England died is a massive exaggeration. This would make it equal to the Black Death, which it certainly wasnt.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/lj/conquestlj/conquered_05.shtml?site=history_conquestlj_conquest


Read the post above also, but this what I was told by someone I've met, he said nearly one third of the local population were destroyed by the invaders mostly through famine and diseases, yes it was as bad as the plague in a sense. The normans devasted southern england completely in an S shape movement to England and they violently surpressed the locals through a system of strongholds.

Most sources indicate that no more than 70,000 Normans, Bretons and Franks migrated to England.

20,000 french soldiers (Breton, Normans and Franks) intially moved to england, a further 20,000 followed immediately. 40,000 total and that just warriors. Now, the Franco-normans elites didn't marry the anglo-saxons intially but from the continents (article as source), so multiply that number by 3 (wives + children). Musicians, merchants, contruction workers and clerics continuously moved from France into England until the hundred year wars. So I would believe in 100 years more than 200,000 might have moved into england and the elites would mostly be composed of Franco-normans whereas the lower class anglo-saxons and vikings.


At the height of Norman power these Englishmen/women(not including mixed English-Norman Landowners) still had considerable holdings in England; Thorkill of Arden held land in Worcestershire as did Wulfstan Bishop of Worcester, Countess Godiva who held land in Leicestershire and Warwickshire, Earl Waltheof of Northumbria. Edward of Salisbury and Wulfwold both held land in the Southern counties.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/lj/conquestlj/conquered_01.shtm> l?site=history_conquestlj_conquest


--------------------------------------------
We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin

From this picture it is clear that the normans featured a Frankish hairstyle popular all around france and were shaven unlike the viking - Eryx





That is an example of cultural influence not ancestry !



<img src=""






I would have made a good Pope."
- Richard M. Nixon (1913-1994)


"Plato was a bore."
- Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)

Quote: That is an example of cultural influence not ancestry !

No it also indicates their ancestry, as well since warrior customs were transmitted from father to son. Facts remained not more than 20,000 vikings mostly males settled in normandy, more than half a century later hardly a drop of viking blood would flow in their veins, since the vast majority of normands ancestors were actually gallic. Saying the normans were vikings is an absurdity. Go tell one of my norman ancestors that they were viking barbarians and they would have crushed your skull with a mace. The Franco-normans treated anglo-saxons and vikings in England alike, as second class citizens.

--------------------------------------------
We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin

And this is the original for the tapestry as you'll notice the normans mostly have dark and brown hairs unlike the vikings.



--------------------------------------------
We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin

The fact that some of the Normans had black or brown hair on the tapestry doesn`t prove anything, since there where vikings with that haircolours to !
Swedish churchpaintings from medevial times up here in the barbarous north as you put it, from early 1100s depicts swedes in both high and low positions with all kinds of haircolours red, white blond, brown, black, golden blond, and blue, green, gray eye colours etc etc some few with brown to , you could say that they where the true people of colour LOL !


Here a sculpture of a swedish medevial king with no foreign ancestry !














I would have made a good Pope."
- Richard M. Nixon (1913-1994)


"Plato was a bore."
- Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)

>>Read the post above also, but this what I was told by someone I've met, he said nearly one third of the >>local population<< were destroyed by the invaders mostly through famine and diseases, yes it was as bad as the plague in a sense.<<

One third of the local population is not the same as 1/3 of the entire population, however you look at it. The Normans also freed 25,000 slaves throughout England as slavery didnt fit with their Christian values.

>>20,000 french soldiers (Breton, Normans and Franks) intially moved to england, a further 20,000 followed immediately. 40,000 total and that just warriors.<<

These are crazy numbers Eryx, if you consider that to Conquer England the best William could muster was 9000 men how can 20,000 follow immediatly and then another 20,000? William didnt need to recruit this many soldiers from Normandy or elsewhere because as early 1068 he could rely on the English Thegns and Peasants to fight in his armies.

Youre link is broke btw and to me it seems like a kids resource site more than anything, i notice this appears to be where you get all of your information from.
Also Eryx you should know William had English Lords who supported his cause and these obviously kept their land. Aswell as this there are areas of England where Norman Lords were the landowners in name only and to avoid conflict and secure loyalty English Lords were left in charge.

>>No it also indicates their ancestry, as well since warrior customs were transmitted from father to son. Facts remained not more than 20,000 vikings mostly males settled in normandy, more than half a century later hardly a drop of viking blood would flow in their veins<<

Not more than 20,000 Vikings settled at first, these were followed by Viking settlers who were invited and began to arrive in 880ad. I think just a little more than "a drop of blood" would have been flowing through Norman veins.

http://www.viking.no/e/france/contribution.html

http://www.viking.no/e/france/place_name_map.html





"Garlic......and bread?? Garlic bread??"

Didn't the Normans refers themselves as "Franci" on the tapestry of Bayeux?
bayeuxtapestry

Quote: Youre link is broke btw and to me it seems like a kids resource site more than anything, i notice this appears to be where you get all of your information from.

Try this gain, it is from BBC and the author is a respected historian.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/lj/conquestlj/conquered_01.shtml?site=history_conquestlj_conquest

--------------------------------------------
We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin

Quote: Didn't the Normans refers themselves as "Franci" on the tapestry of Bayeux? bayeuxtapestry

Yep it is all written on the tapestry and many times, never referring to invading force as norman (now to claim that they were viking is even more ludicrous).

The normans were as french as it can get, if there was a degree frenchness (noting that french is hardly a race but let say to the races of France were mostly Celts, Franks, burgundi and romans plus the cultural heritage, we cannot say an Irish is french simply because he is celts he need to have the french heritage too), then I would place the normans who spoke a Langue d'oil french as more french than the Aquitanians, bretons, burgundians and Occitanians but less french than the Francilians (ile-de-france people)and Angevins. Normans were simply french tainted minimally by the viking blood. THe vikings ancestry of the normans is clearly exaggerated considering most inhabitants of normandy were Frankish (Celts, Franks and romans).

And it wasnt the norman invasion strictly speaking but the french invasion because most invaders weren't from normandy, normans knights had no obligation to serve overseas, so William had to resort for mercenaries from all around France.

--------------------------------------------
We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin

List of knights and nobles that participated in the conquest of England:

A
* Achard
* Achard d'Ivry
* Aioulf
* Aitard de Vaux
* Alain le Roux
* Amaury de Dreux
* Anquetil de Cherbourg
* Anquetil de Gray
* Anquetil de Ros
* Anscoulf de Picquigny
* Ansfroi de Cormeilles
* Ansfroi de Vaubadon
* Ansger de Montaigu
* Ansger de Senarpont
* Ansgot
* Ansgot
* Ansgot de Ros
* Arnoul d'Ardres
* Arnoul de Percy
* Arnoul de Hesdin
* Aubert Greslet
* Aubri de Coucy
* Aubri de Ver
* Auvrai de Breton
* Auvrai d'Espagne
* Auvrai de Merleberge
* Auvrai de Tanle
* Asor

B
* Baudouin de Colombières
* Baudouin le Flamand
* Baudouin de Meules
* Bérenger Giffard
* Bérenger de Tosny
* Bernard d'Alençon
* Bernard du Neufmarché
* Bernard Pancevolt
* Bernard de Saint-Ouen
* Bertrand de Verdun
* Beuselin de Dives
* Bigot de Loges

C
* Carbonnel

D
* David d'Argentan
* Drogon de la Beuvrière
* Drogon de Montaigu
* Durand Malet

E
* Écouland
* Engenoulf de l'Aigle
* Enguerrand de Raimbeaucourt
* Erneis de Buron
* Étienne de Fontenay
* Eustache de Boulogne

F
* Foulcher de Paris
* Foulque de Lisors
* Foulque d'Appeville
* Foulque le Bourguignon
* Foulque de Caen
* Foulque de Claville
* Foulque de Douai
* Foulque Giffard

G
* Gautier de Grancourt
* Gautier Hachet
* Gautier Heuse
* Gautier d'Incourt
* Gautier de Laci
* Gautier de Mucedent
* Gautier d'Omontville
* Gautier de Risbou
* Gautier de Saint-Valery
* Gautier Tirel
* Gautier de Vernon
* Godefroi Alselin
* Godefroi Bénard
* Godefroi du Bec
* Godefroi de Cambrai
* Godefroi de la Guierche
* Godefroi le Maréchal
* Godefroi de Mandeville
* Godefroi Martel
* Godefroi Maurouard
* Godefroi de Montbray
* Godefroi du Perche
* Godefroi de Pierrepont
* Godefroi de Ros
* Godefroi de Runeville
* Godefroi Talbot
* Godefroi de Tournai
* Godfroi de Trelly
* Gerbold le Flamand
* Gilbert le Blond
* Gilbert de Blosseville
* Gilbert de Breteville
* Gilbert de Budi
* Gilbert de Colleville
* Gilbert de Gand
* Gilbert Gibard
* Gilbert Malet
* Gilbert Maminot
* Gilbert Tison
* Gilbert de Venables
* Gilbert de Wissant
* Girard
* Gonfroi de Cioches
* Gonfroi Mauduit
* Goscelin de Cormeilles
* Goscelin de Douai
* Goscelin de la Rivière
* Goubert d'Aufai
* Goubert de Bauvais
* Guernon de Pois
* Gui de Craon
* Gui de Raimbeaucourt
* Gui de Rainecourt
* Guillaune d'Ansleville
* Guillaume l'Archer
* Guillaume d'Arques
* Guillaume d'Andrieu
* Guillaume de l'Aune
* Guillaume Basset
* Guillaume Belet
* Guillaume de Beaufou
* Guillaume Bertram
* Guillaume de Biville
* Guillaume le Blond
* Guillaume Bonvalet
* Guillaume du Bosc
* Guillaume du Bosc-Roard
* Guillaume de Bourneville
* Guillaume de Bray
* Guillaume de Bursigni
* Guillaume de Cahaignes
* Guillaume de Cailly
* Guillaume de Cairon
* Guillaume Cardon
* Guillaume de Carnet
* Guillaume de Castillon
* Guillaume de Ceauce
* Guillaume la Chevre
* Guillaume de Colleville
* Guillaume Corbon
* Guillaume de Daumeray
* Guillaume le Despensier
* Guillaume de Durville
* Guillaume d'Ecouis
* Guillaume Espec
* Guillaume d'Eu
* Guillaume d'Évreux
* Guillaume de Falaise
* Guillaume de Fécamp
* Guillaume Folet
* Guillaume de la Forêt
* Guillaume de Fougères
* Guillaume Froissart
* Guillaume Goulaffre
* Guillaume de Letre
* Guillaume de Loucelles
* Guillaume Louvet
* Guillaume Malet
* Guillaume de Malleville
* Guillaume de la Mare
* Guillaume Maubenc
* Guillaume Mauduit
* Guillaume de Moion
* Guillaume de Monceaux
* Guillaume de Noyers
* Guillaume Fils-Osbern
* Guillaume Pantoul
* Guillaume de Parthenay
* Guillaume Pêche
* Guillaume de Percy
* Guillaume Levrel
* Guillaume de Picquigny
* Guillaume Poignant
* Guillaume de Poillei
* Guillaume le Poitevin
* Guillaume de Pont-de-l'Arche
* Guillaume Quesnel
* Guillaume de Reviers
* Guillaume de Sept-Meules
* Guillaume Taillebois
* Guillaume de Tosny
* Guillaume de Vatteville
* Guillaume de Vauville
* Guillaume de Ver
* Guillaume de Vesly
* Guillaume de Varenne
* Guimond de Blangy
* Guimond de Tessel
* Guineboud de Balon
* Guinemar le Flamand

H
* Hamelin de Balon
* Hamon le Sénéchal
* Ardouin d'Écalles
* Ascoulf Musard
* Henri de Beaumont
* Henri de Ferrières
* Herman de Dreux
* Hervé le Berruier
* Hervé d'Espagne
* Hervé d'Hélion
* Huard de Vernon
* Hubert de Mont-Cassin
* Hubert de Port
* Hugues l'Âne
* Hugues d'Avranches
* Hugues de Beauchamp
* Hugues de Bernières
* Hugues de Bois-Hébert
* Hugues de Bolbec
* Hugues Bourdet
* Hugues de Bébeuf
* Hugues de Corbon
* Hugues de Dol
* Hugues le Flamand
* Hugues de Gournay
* Hugues de Grandmesnil
* Hugues de Hodenc
* Hugues de Hotot
* Hugues d'Ivry
* Hugues de Laci
* Hugues de Maci
* Hugues Maminot
* Hugues de Manneville
* Hugues de la Mare
* Hugues Mautravers
* Hugues de Mobec
* Hugues de Montfort
* Hugues de Montgommery
* Hugues Musard
* Hugues de Port
* Hugues de Rennes
* Hugues de Saint-Quentin
* Hugues Silvestre
* Hugues de Vesly
* Hugues de Viville

I
* Ibert de Laci
* Ibert de Tosny

J
* Josce le Flamand
* Juhel de Tosny

K

L
* Landri
* Lanfranc

M
* Mathieu de Mortagne
* Mauger de Carteret
* Maurin de Caen
* Mile Crespin
* Murdac

N
* Néel d'Aubigny
* Néel de Berville
* Néel Fossard
* Néel de Gournay
* Néel de Muneville
* Normand d'Adreci

O
* Odon de Champagne
* Odon de Bayeux
* Odon Cul-de-Loup
* Odon le Flamand
* Odon Fourneaux
* Odon le Sénéchal
* Onfroi d'Ansleville
* Onfroi de Biville
* Onfroi de Bohon
* Onfroi de Carteret
* Onfroi de Culai
* Onfroi de l'Île
* Onfroi du Tilleul
* Onfroi Vis-de-Loup
* Osbern d'Arques
* Osbern du Breuil
* Osbern d'Eu
* Osbern Giffard
* Osbern Pastioreire
* Osbern du Quesnay
* Osbern du Saussay
* Osbern de Wanci
* Osmond
* Osmond de Vaubadon

P
* Picot
* Pierre de Valognes

Q

R
* Rabier d'Avre
* Raoul d'Aunou
* Raoul Baignard
* Raoul de Bans
* Raoul de Bapaumes
* Raoul Basset
* Raoul de Beaufou
* Raoul de Bernay
* Raoul Blouet
* Raoul Botin
* Raoul de La Rivière
* Raoul de Languetot
* Raoul de Limésy
* Raoul de Marcy
* Raoul de Mortemer
* Raoul de Noron
* Raoul d'Ouilly
* Raoul Painel
* Raoul Pinel
* Raoul Pipin
* Raoul de La Pommeraye
* Raoul du Quesnay
* Raoul de Saint-Sanson
* Raoul du Saussay
* Raoul de Savigny
* Raoul Taillebois
* Raoul du Theil
* Raoul de Tosny
* Raoul de Tourlaville
* Raoul de Tourneville
* Raoul Tranchard
* Raoul Fils-Unspac
* Raoul Vis-de-Loup
* Raoul de La Bruière
* Raoul de Chartres
* Raoul de Colombières
* Raoul de Conteville
* Raoul de Courbepine
* Raoul l'Estourmi
* Raoul de Fougères
* Raoul Framan
* Raoul de Gaël
* Raoul de Hauville
* Raoul de l'Île
* Ravenot
* Renaud de Bailleul
* Renaud Croc
* Renaud de Pierrepont
* Renaud de Sainte-Hélène
* Renaud de Torteval
* Rénier de Brimou
* Rainulf de Colombelles
* Rainulf Flambard
* Rainulf Pevrel
* Rainulf de Saint-Valéry
* Rainulf de Vaubadon
* Richard Basset
* Richard de Bondeville
* Richard de Coucy
* Richard d'Engagne
* Richard l'Estourmi
* Richard Fresle
* Richard de Meri
* Richard de Neuville
* Richard Poignant
* Richard de Reviers
* Richard de Sacquenville
* Richard de Saint-Clair
* Richard de Sourdeval
* Richard Talbot
* Richard de Vatteville
* Richard de Vernon
* Richer d'Andelys
* Robert d'Armentières
* Robert d'Auberville
* Robert d'Aumale
* Robert de Barbes
* Robert le Bastard
* Robert de Beaumont
* Robert le Blond
* Robert Blouet
* Robert Bourdet
* Robert de Brix
* Robert de Bucy
* Robert de Chandos
* Robert Corbet
* Robert de Courçon
* Robert Cruel
* Robert le Despensier
* Robert d'Eu
* Robert Fromentin
* Robert Fils-Gerould
* Robert de Glanville
* Robert Guernon
* Robert de Harcourt
* Robert de Lorz
* Robert de Meulan
* Robert de Montbray
* Robert de Montfort
* Robert de Mortain
* Robert des Moutiers
* Robert Murdac
* Robert d'Ouilly
* Robert de Pierrepont
* Robert de Pontchardon
* Robert de Rhuddlan
* Robert de Romenel
* Robert de Thaon
* Robert de Tosny
* Robert de Vateville
* Robert des Vaux
* Robert de Vescy
* Robert de Vesly
* Robert de Villon
* Robert de Vitot
* Roger d'Abernon
* Roger d'Arundel
* Roger d'Auberville
* Roger de Beaumont
* Roger Bigod
* Roger Boissel
* Roger de Bosc-Normand
* Roger de Bosc-Roard
* Roger de Breteuil
* Roger de Bully
* Roger de Carteret
* Roger de Chandos
* Roger Corbet
* Roger de Courcelles
* Roger d'Évreux
* Roger d'Ivry
* Roger de Lacy
* Roger de Meules
* Roger de Montgommery
* Roger de Moyaux
* Roger de Mussegros
* Roger de Ouistreham
* Roger d'Orbec
* Roger Picot
* Roger de Pistres
* Roger le Poitevin
* Roger de Rames
* Roger de Saint-Germain
* Roger de Sommery
* Ruold l'Adoubé

S
* Sanson
* Seri d'Auberville
* Serion de Burcy
* Serlon de Burcy
* Serlon de Ros
* Sigar de Cioches
* Simon de Senlis

T
* Thierry Pointel
* Tihel de Herion
* Turstin
* Turstin de Guéron
* Turstin de Sainte-Hélène
* Turstin Fils-Rou
* Turstin Mantel
* Turstin Tinel
* Turold
* Turold de Grenteville
* Turold de Papelion

U
* Urse d'Abbetot
* Urse de Berchères

V
* Vauquelin de Rosay
* Vital

W
* Wadard

X

Y
* Yves Taillebois
* Yves de Vesci

All very French names for me.

Turstin
* Turstin de Guéron
* Turstin de Sainte-Hélène
* Turstin Fils-Rou
* Turstin Mantel
* Turstin


= Torsten is the name in modern swedish LOL


Aioulf = ULf is also a quite common name up here !
Anscoulf de Picquigny


Not to speak of Guilamme le blonde !


One must ask oneself if they where so french why did they leave it to live on ze rainy island !









I would have made a good Pope."
- Richard M. Nixon (1913-1994)


"Plato was a bore."
- Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)

"One must ask oneself if they where so french why did they leave it to live on ze rainy island !"

One might as well ask if they were so Viking, why did they leave Scandinavia to live on ze frog land.











.

>>so William had to resort for mercenaries from all around France.<<

And Germany and Spain and Northern Italy and so on..


@ Magnus, thats not the only name that might seem familiar



List of Norman family names which are Scandanavian in origin;

Anger
Angot
Anquetil
Auber
Aumont
Azouf/Auzoux
Aze
Brument/Le Brument
Burnouf
Ernouf
Estur
Frigard
Gaument
Godefroy
Gonnor
Gounouf
Guillhouf
Harang
Harou
Hastain
Havard
Hérou
Houlegate
Ingouf
Néel
Onfroy
Osmond
Osouf
Quétil
Rabec
Renouf
Thouroude
Tostain
Tourquétil
Tougard
Turgot
Turgis
Varangot
Yver






"Garlic......and bread?? Garlic bread??"

Touche !






Good work !









I would have made a good Pope."
- Richard M. Nixon (1913-1994)


"Plato was a bore."
- Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)

Well that there is some Normands family name of Skandinavian origine is hardly surprising.
All very francized though.
To the point they sound very French: Anger, Angot, Anquetil, Auber, Aumont: who could have guessed it's names of Skandinavian origine ?

And Germany and Spain and Northern Italy and so on..

In every medieval armies there were foreginers but the knights and leaders were always french. As far as I know there were few foreigners among the invading and they are not referred to on the tapestry.

List of Norman family names which are Scandanavian in origin;

Anger
Angot
Anquetil
Auber
Aumont
Azouf/Auzoux
Aze
Brument/Le Brument
Burnouf
Ernouf
Estur
Frigard
Gaument
Godefroy
Gonnor
Gounouf
Guillhouf
Harang
Harou
Hastain
Havard
Hérou
Houlegate
Ingouf
Néel
Onfroy
Osmond
Osouf
Quétil
Rabec
Renouf
Thouroude
Tostain
Tourquétil
Tougard
Turgot
Turgis
Varangot
Yver

They may be of scandinavian origin but these so don't get confuse here, do you know 90% of surnames in northern france and about 50% of names in the south are of germans origin. This doesn't mean the names are germans, so don't get confuse here. many typical English names many are of french origin, yet they are not french names.

Suppose a viking called Harald Torstag decided to settle in normandy. he married Arlette Blois, giving birth to bernard Torstag and Sophie Torstag (the name was lost through Sophie who Married Pierre Fontaine). Now Bernard Torstag cannot speak viking anymore since her mother was french, he changed his Name to Tostain and he marries Bernadette Francois, gives birth to Francois Tostain.

Francois Tostain married Francille Dubois to give birth to Jean Tostain.

Now you got to be kidding if you think Francois Tostain is a viking and not a frenchman.

--------------------------------------------
We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin

Quote: One must ask oneself if they where so french why did they leave it to live on ze rainy island

The vast majority of normans stayed in normandy, facts is most normans knights didn't even took part in the invasion since they had no obligation overseas. The Franco-normans were only cut off from their homeland by all conquering french Philip Augustus. The Franco-angevin-normans even wrote a letter to Philip to invade England so that he can become king of England and get rid of John.

--------------------------------------------
We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin

>>Now you got to be kidding if you think Francois Tostain is a viking and not a frenchman.<<

I think this is where you miss the point, the Normans were neither French nor Vikings. They created an identity seperate from both and at no point in the Conquest was William acting in the interests of France indeed France didnt even exist certainly not as we know it today.
The problem is Eryx you want the Norman Conquest to French, to be France defeating England and it wasnt. A coalition of forces from parts of France, Germany, Spain and Northern Italy led by William the Bastard invaded Southern England and defeated Wessex.




"Garlic......and bread?? Garlic bread??"

odd how the French supposedly "conquered" England, but for quite a while, they couldn't conquer a paper bag, much less another country. What happened?

"When you go home tell them of us, say, for your tomorrow, we gave our today." -- Kohima memorial to Sikh soldiers of WWII





Indian Armed Forces

I hear India cant even defeat Pakistan even when they have the better equipment and more men.

Quote: I think this is where you miss the point, the Normans were neither French nor Vikings. They created an identity seperate from both and at no point in the Conquest was William acting in the interests of France indeed France didnt even exist certainly not as we know it today. The problem is Eryx you want the Norman Conquest to French, to be France defeating England and it wasnt. A coalition of forces from parts of France, Germany, Spain and Northern Italy led by William the Bastard invaded Southern England and defeated Wessex.

You are right on one point France didn't exist as a nation (infact strangely France was still referred as gaul in those days) but as a culture it already existed, that is why there was clearly a notion of Franci and Angli by 1066, and referred to on the tapestry.Of course the norman didn't fight for the interest of France, what a stupid remark, all those states including Nomandy, Anjou, aquittaine, burgundy as well as ile-de-France were all predatorial in nature, they would attack anything that was weak, that is why Normandy engulfed maine , whereas Anjou engulfed Normandy and ile-de-France took them all. But you cannot denied that Normandy, Anjou and Ile-de-France belonged to a sphere known as Francia occidentalis, whereas Wessex and Mercia belong to the Anglo sphere.

--------------------------------------------
We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin

Quote: odd how the French supposedly "conquered" England, but for quite a while, they couldn't conquer a paper bag, much less another country. What happened?

I like idiot like this with no understanding on history, you fool France was the only country in world that was formed by predating on its neighbours, it is the largest country in western europe, and France had conquered territories from that list of countries:germany (Alsace and Lorraine), Spain (Roussilon), Italy (Savoy, nice, Marseille). There is not one country in the world that french forces haven't violated.

Not to mention the many lost conquest like Belgium, Netherland, Illyria, most of norther Italy, part of germany.

Then there was the conquest of algeria, Indochina, and we would have conquered you indians with great ease if the english didn't stand on our way. and the invasion of rhineland in 1923.

Plus the invasion taiwan and China (that we defeated in he Sino-french war). The indians is a joke, only the british stood between us and you people.




You see that black spot on the map this is where the kingdom of France started.





Ze empire, all conquest, one that indian will never dream of, lest conquer.




--------------------------------------------
We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin

Quote: I hear India cant even defeat Pakistan even when they have the better equipment and more men

Check this battle out,battle of Plassey, 3000 british vs 50,000 indian and supported by 200 french artillery men.

After the first volley of fire from the british, all the 50,000 indians fled the battlefield roflmao, living our 200 men artillery exposed. The french resistance was severe, but these were artillerymen they ran out of ammo and was surrounded and captured. There was no trace of the 50,000 indians whatsoever, now speaking of cowards roflmao. Jesus they had 50,000 men, the british didn't even have enough gun power to kill that much.

http://murshidabad.nic.in/plassey.htm

--------------------------------------------
We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin

>>But you cannot denied that Normandy, Anjou and Ile-de-France belonged to a sphere known as Francia occidentalis,<<

Possibly, but belonging to a Cultural sphere doesnt change the fact that Normandy was created by Vikings, that Vikings did settle in Normandy and that the Duke of Normandy acted independantly in his actions.



"Garlic......and bread?? Garlic bread??"

Eric when are you going to admit defeat in this question LOL !



The normans where as french as the paris intifada rioters !



They may have lived on present french territory but so did the germans for 4 years, the normans where infact occupiers of French ground, invaders and there cooking was a disaster, they did pick up some french habits though like sipping wine !


However some french barbers, chefs, musicians and intellectuals where included in the maintainance company that followed the Norman army in their succesful invasion of England, but they stayed as far away from the fighting as possible !





"William, Duke of Normandy, laid claim to the English throne. William justified his claim through his blood relationship with Edward (they were distant cousins)"




"A cross adorns the top of the ship's mast. Below the cross, a lantern guides the way for the rest of the fleet. Shields line the ship's gunwales, reminiscent of the practice of the Norman's Viking ancestors. A dragon's head sits on the ship's prow and a bugler blows his horn at the ship's stern. A ship laden with horses sails along side William's craft. The fleet lands on September 28 and the invasion army makes its way to Hastings."

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/bayeuxcont.htm















I would have made a good Pope."
- Richard M. Nixon (1913-1994)


"Plato was a bore."
- Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)

Quote: Possibly, but belonging to a Cultural sphere doesnt change the fact that Normandy was created by Vikings, that Vikings did settle in Normandy and that the Duke of Normandy acted independantly in his actions

And how does that make Normandy different from Burgundy which was founded by the burgundian, all duchies were independent but they remained the vassals of the king. To separate from the french throne, the people has to revolt or there is another way, for instance if one Duke became too powerful, they can actually claimed the throne of France. This is what many Angevin especially the Plantagenet line had attempted, this is because the belong to the french sphere. By 1066, there was no viking in normandy but only french, this is how they referred themselves collectively to foreigners. If a norman met a viking and the viking asked him who he was he would say he was a frank, that's why on the tapestry of bayeux it said so.

--------------------------------------------
We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin

Magnus said: Eric when are you going to admit defeat in this question LOL


The normans where as french as the paris intifada rioters


>>>> Admit defeat, roflmao, are you a moron or something, admit defeat about what, I'm right and you are wrong ignorant fool.



Magnus said: They may have lived on present french territory but so did the germans for 4 years, the normans where infact occupiers of French ground, invaders and there cooking was a disaster, they did pick up some french habits though like sipping wine

>>>> Wrong, the Vikings didn't invade french territory, they were crushed by the forces of Robert le Justicier at Chartres. However, there was a treaty between the Franks and the Vikings, they would be allowed to settle in Normandy in exchange they would attack the other raiding vikings. So that invasion and occupation nonsense come straight out of your feeble mind, the viking settled in normandy only after Robert Le justicier allowed them to do so. French habits like sipping wines, roflmao, they were in french from head to feet idiots, they spoke french (langue d'oil), french names, french haircuts, french way of war, and even more gallic genes than beastial viking genes.

http://www.societe-jersiaise.org/whitsco/wayne7.htm

Extract

Ironically it was a Norse defeat at Chartres in 911 which was to see the establishment of what was to eventually become the duchy of Normandy. It is not known if Rollo was involved in this battle but the Frankish King Charles the Simple appointed him responsible for the land around Rouen possibly up to the Risle valley in the west and the river Epte to the east. It may be seen as a short term measure to prevent further Norse incursions up the Seine either by keeping him placated or as recognition that he led a group of Norsemen who could be trusted. The Franks had made similar arrangements in the past but could not have realised it would take another 300 years before they could regain control of the area.




Magnus said: However some french barbers, chefs, musicians and intellectuals where included in the maintainance company that followed the Norman army in their succesful invasion of England, but they stayed as far away from the fighting as possible

>>>>>>> Actually idiot, most of the invading army were actually breton and french rather than normans, normans knights weren't under obligation to serve overseas. 20% of the land in England were held by the breton.



Magnus said: William, Duke of Normandy, laid claim to the English throne. William justified his claim through his blood relationship with Edward (they were distant cousins)"

>>>>>> What a nonsense, William (Guillaume) was of french blood, her mother was Arlette the tanner pure celtic and his father mostly french with some viking ancestry. How the hell would he be related with an anglo-saxon. This is how the William claimed the throne of England, it has nothing to do with bloodline you idiot.

http://www.britannia.com/history/monarchs/mon22.html

Extract

Edward the Confessor attempted to gain Norman support while fighting with his father-in-law, Earl Godwin, by purportedly promising the throne to William in 1051. (This was either a false claim by William or a hollow promise from Edward; at that time, the kingship was not necessarily hereditary but was appointed by the witan, a council of clergy and barons.) Before his death in 1066, however, Edward reconciled with Godwin, and the witan agreed to Godwin's son, Harold, as heir to the crown - after the recent Danish kings, the members of the council were anxious to keep the monarchy in Anglo-Saxon hands. William was enraged and immediately prepared to invade






Magnus said: A cross adorns the top of the ship's mast. Below the cross, a lantern guides the way for the rest of the fleet. Shields line the ship's gunwales, reminiscent of the practice of the Norman's Viking ancestors. A dragon's head sits on the ship's prow and a bugler blows his horn at the ship's stern. A ship laden with horses sails along side William's craft. The fleet lands on September 28 and the invasion army makes its way to Hastings."



That picture isn't from the original tapestry, vikings were pagans they don't carry the cross, but these are typical Frankish boats, of course there were viking influence since the viking were good navigators and their ships were of very good design.

Here is a translation on the tapestry of bayeux, there is nowhere the words Viking was referred to as to descride the normans, calling the normans as vikings would have been felt like an insult.

Fratres Haroldi regis. Hic ceciderunt simul Angli et Franci in prelio.
Hic odo episcopus baculum tenens conforat pueros. Hic est Willelm dux.
Eustacius. Hic Franci pugnant.
Et ceciderunt qui erant cum Haroldo. Hic Harold rex interfectus est.
Et fuga verterunt Angli


Translation

Brothers of Regent Harod, here died simultaneously English and French in battle.
Here Bishop Odo with a staff in his hand encourages his squires. Here is Duke William.
Eustache, here the French are fighting.
And those who were with Harold died. Here king Harold died.
And the English fled.




--------------------------------------------
We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin

And it wasnt the norman invasion strictly speaking but the french invasion because most invaders weren't from normandy, normans knights had no obligation to serve overseas, so William had to resort for mercenaries from all around France.

Good post, Eryx! English textbooks have been lying to us about the "Norman" invasion of 1066. It was a French invasion after all from your mass of evidence.

BTW, the local militia of Guanduong, the Black Flags, actually did beat the French in a campaign in 1885. Defeat at the key battle at Lang Son (March 28, 1885) on the Chinese border brought down the government of Jules Ferry. It was the only "victory" the decrepit Chinese empire in the 1800s had beat an European nation. They lost the rest of the war and lost Vietnam.

-------------------------------------------------
Love is a Big Fat Cuddly Panda

>>And how does that make Normandy different from Burgundy which was founded by the burgundian, all duchies were independent but they remained the vassals of the king.<<

The King of Scotland was vassal to an English King and an English King was vassal to the King of France. In theory, this ment an English King could claim Overlordship over Scotland and a French King likewise over England(and Scotland) Therefore the King of France could claim all this land as French even if he had no means of actually getting it. During the Hundred Years War English Kings through very weak claims would often invade France. This wasnt because England was powerful enough to rival France and was exercising its right as a vassal state to claim the French throne. It was land grabbing, taking advantage of French disputes. Speaking of the Hundred Years War, Burgundy was frequently at war with France as a seperate entity, an economic rival.

>>By 1066, there was no viking in normandy but only french, this is how they referred themselves collectively to foreigners.<<

Now originally i was disputing how many Vikings settled and Viking influence in Normandy. I gave sources that indicated more than the original Warriors settled afterwards. I was disputing their ancestry rather than their cultural influences.
Still...

Youre own quote says "The Franks had made similar arrangements in the past but could not have realised it would take another 300 years before they could regain control of the area."





"Garlic......and bread?? Garlic bread??"

Quote: Check this battle out,battle of Plassey, 3000 british vs 50,000 indian and supported by 200 french artillery men. After the first volley of fire from the british, all the 50,000 indians fled the battlefield roflmao, living our 200 men artillery exposed. The french resistance was severe, but these were artillerymen they ran out of ammo and was surrounded and captured. There was no trace of the 50,000 indians whatsoever, now speaking of cowards roflmao. Jesus they had 50,000 men, the british didn't even have enough gun power to kill that much.

Oh, i love it when people think they know everything.

You moron, you had machine guns and cannon, we had SWORDS AND SPEARS!!!
Indians had never seen cannon before, you idiot

btw, French military history for you:
lost hundred years war (don't argue this, British controlled English channel after)
lost franco-prussian war
conquered by Germany in WWII
lost French-Indochina war
lost French and Indian War
lost War of Spanish Succession
Ended up losing Napoleonic Wars (don't care about gains, you still lost, twice)
Lost in Algeria,Lost. (Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades)
Also, doesn't seem to be doing well in the war on terror. funny how Muslims are rioting, EVEN THOUGH YOU ARENT IN THE WAR!

"When you go home tell them of us, say, for your tomorrow, we gave our today." -- Kohima memorial to Sikh soldiers of WWII





Indian Armed Forces

FE3T
Good boy. You learnt your lesson well. Your masters are happy.
You want a coockie or a candy today ?

funny how you say that. the only reason the French haven't surrendered to the Muslim teenagers torching their villages is that they don't know who to surrender to.

I'd also remind you that simple teenagers beat your "army", police, whatever the hell you call your armed forces

"When you go home tell them of us, say, for your tomorrow, we gave our today." -- Kohima memorial to Sikh soldiers of WWII





Indian Armed Forces

Quote: The King of Scotland was vassal to an English King and an English King was vassal to the King of France. In theory, this ment an English King could claim Overlordship over Scotland and a French King likewise over England(and Scotland) Therefore the King of France could claim all this land as French even if he had no means of actually getting it. During the Hundred Years War English Kings through very weak claims would often invade France. This wasnt because England was powerful enough to rival France and was exercising its right as a vassal state to claim the French throne. It was land grabbing, taking advantage of French disputes. Speaking of the Hundred Years War, Burgundy was frequently at war with France as a seperate entity, an economic rival.

I beg to disagree, I made a mistake myself by confuse the term vassal with overlordship. A french king has no claim whatsoever on the throne of England unless he had a decent claim. William the king of England has for Overlord the french king because he was the duke of normandy and not because he was the king of England. Of course those rules were routinely broken, a powerful care about the king of France, he was independent as long as his duchy was strong. Now a king of England if he is a duke of Normandy, Anjou or Aquittaine also could actually claim the throne of France. And the claim of the Platagenet were quite valid, if it happened the king of England conquered ile-de-France, he became king of France and king of England, both titles are inherited separately after his death.

Burgundy was way different from normandy, because Burgundy used to belong to holy roman empire sphere but then again nobody doubts whether burgundians are french nowadays.

--------------------------------------------
We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin

Quote: Oh, i love it when people think they know everything. You moron, you had machine guns and cannon, we had SWORDS AND SPEARS!!! Indians had never seen cannon before, you idiot btw, French military history for you: lost hundred years war (don't argue this, British controlled English channel after) lost franco-prussian war conquered by Germany in WWII lost French-Indochina war lost French and Indian War lost War of Spanish Succession Ended up losing Napoleonic Wars (don't care about gains, you still lost, twice) Lost in Algeria,Lost. (Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades) Also, doesn't seem to be doing well in the war on terror. funny how Muslims are rioting, EVEN THOUGH YOU ARENT IN THE WAR!

Spears, roflmao, they were armed with the latest guns.

Dude the war of the spanish succession was a french victory. Every nations have their defeat and victories (except for india roflmao)

Just a few french victories.

1. Capetians wars
2. hundred years war
3. War of spanish succession
4. Franco-austrian war 1856
5. Crimean war
6. Wars of the first and second coalition
7. all napoleonic wars except the last
8. WW1

And Algeria was a military victory but a political defeat, so get your fact straight.

--------------------------------------------
We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin

FE3T

"You moron, you had machine guns and cannon, we had SWORDS AND SPEARS!!!
Indians had never seen cannon before, you idiot"

Although i absolutely don't agree with the version of the battle of Plassey that eric is trying to put across you also seem to be mistaken in many ways, if you don't mind me saying so.

I'm sorry mate but the battle of Plassey took place in 1757, no one had machine guns, they hadn't been invented yet.

In fact percussion firing muskets hadn't even been invented, it was all flintlock muskets in those days and these weapons were available to the army of Suraj-ud-Daula in huge numbers (although some of the army may have been armed with swords and spears a very large proportion were armed in a similar way to the British/Indian army they were fighting) because various Indian states were producing large numbers of muskets and cannon of a similar standard to European muskets and cannon.

The army of Suraj-ud-Daula was also equipped with 53 artillery pieces of various calibres, many of which were manned by native troops.

So the arguement "we were only armed with swords and spears" that is often used to explain large "Indian" armies being defeated by smaller British/EIC armies just dosn't add up i'm afraid.

8. WW1

What you mean is the allies won after they had to save your pathetic little ass from the Deutschland..


I know what your going to say camel boy what has canada won bla bla bla bla bla bla bla same old crap francais..
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/victories.html

Generalnadir
8. WW1

What you mean is the allies won after they had to save your pathetic little ass from the
Deutschland..

Well that's the new version of history spread by American fascist red neck bigots that
all the morons of the hearth are adopting.

So if I understand well the English fought for French nice eyes ?
You need to be deeply retarded to believe such a thing.

No, the truth is that the French and Brits were allied against Germany. So where do you
think the war had to take place ?
- in the midle of the channel ? not very convenient,
- in Germany ? good idea ! guess what ? we tried.
- in France ? well that's finally where it happened. The French recieved most of the initial choc.
All in all the French and the Brits did a very good job.
I know morons following the most rotten American propaganda pretend it was an American
victory but the French and the Brits know very well how it was. Little @ss holes like you
can spit on our dead but not change history.

@EricDeLalegion

your map is funny: u color syria just as if french conquered it...LOL
french never conquered anything against turks...
In syria Turks were fighting english and lost beacause of arabs who take part with englishes...
we can't say that frenches really had an empire because the country which staid the more long time under frenche dominance is algeria and algeria staid only 70 years under french. The other african countries u colored in your map did not stay more than 20 to 30 years under french dominance (from about 1910 to 1950).
And france never conquered america: they tried but they losed.
If we Turk were as arrogant as french, we would color south of france: do u know that Turks conquered Nice, Toulon... all south of nowadays france for france in 16th century. Before that the south was allied with spain. we conquered Corsica for france, but they losed it after against spain and finally bought it to italy 2 centuries after.
This so called french empire did not last as long as the shortest Turkish empire of history....

Quote: your map is funny: u color syria just as if french conquered it...LOL french never conquered anything against turks... In syria Turks were fighting english and lost beacause of arabs who take part with englishes... we can't say that frenches really had an empire because the country which staid the more long time under frenche dominance is algeria and algeria staid only 70 years under french. The other african countries u colored in your map did not stay more than 20 to 30 years under french dominance (from about 1910 to 1950). And france never conquered america: they tried but they losed. If we Turk were as arrogant as french, we would color south of france: do u know that Turks conquered Nice, Toulon... all south of nowadays france for france in 16th century. Before that the south was allied with spain. we conquered Corsica for france, but they losed it after against spain and finally bought it to italy 2 centuries after. This so called french empire did not last as long as the shortest Turkish empire of history....

ROFLMAO, Turks conquered nice and Toulon, on what planet are you living mate. France had defeated the ottomans over and over, during the Napoleonic war in Egypt then ottoman territories, 1500 frenchmen defeated 30,000 turks to take Egypt. During WW1 France, britain, and australia dismembered the ottoman empire piece by piece by piece.

And yes we conquered part of North America but we din't hold it for a long time, the empire clearly existed only a fool will deny it.



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We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin

Quote: If we Turk were as arrogant as french, we would color south of france: do u know that Turks conquered Nice, Toulon... all south of nowadays france for france in 16th century. Before that the south was allied with spain. we conquered Corsica for france, but they losed it after against spain and finally bought it to italy 2 centuries after

Just shut your filthy, no shrunken headed Turks had ever conquered Nice or Toulon. Nice was annexed to the French territory after the Franco-austrian war. If a turk had ever violated a french territory, we would have shoved a barrel of black powder up your @ss and exploded you into thousands bits. You are one dellusional half mongol-half arab mongrel. Turks had always been on the receiving end since the last time you tried to conquer Austria.

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We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin

Stupid french !! Study history !! napoleon has been defeated by Turks when Turks were told the sick man of europe.
Turks at the weakest time of their history defeated french at the top of their history cause napolean had to leave egypt in english boats !! Study your history !!
and napoleon is 5 years in history! frenches have only these 5 years in there history !!!
And yes Turks conquered south of france !! Make search stupid french !!

See this:





First as a Greek (Nikaïa) and then as a Roman colony (Nissa), the city has known great prosperity throughout its history. It has always been seen as highly desirable, and has hands many times - annexed to Provence, then by the Duchy of Savoy, besieged by the Turks, and then by the French … Nice finally became French in 1860. This star of the Côte d'Azur, in an exceptional situation on the Baie des Anges, has a wonderful micro-climate and was one of the first places to develop winter tourism.

http://www.villes-et-villages-fleuris.com/nice.htm

Quote: Stupid french !! Study history !! napoleon has been defeated by Turks when Turks were told the sick man of europe. Turks at the weakest time of their history defeated french at the top of their history cause napolean had to leave egypt in english boats !! Study your history !! and napoleon is 5 years in history! frenches have only these 5 years in there history !!! And yes Turks conquered south of france !! Make search stupid french !!

HHahahaaha, Turks defeating Napoleon, in you dream. And no you've never conquered south of France you ****.

Napoleonic forces constantly beat the living sh!t out of the ottomans, but the french forces were forced to retreat after the English sunk the fleet, not because of the ottomans. Don't be ridiculous Turks cannot never defeat frenchmen.

Check out what we did to the turks at Jaffa.

At Jaffa the 3000 defenders in the Ottoman garrison are promised by a French officer that their lives will be spared if they submit. But once inside the city, Napoleon orders them all to be executed.





To conserve ammunition, the instruction is given for the condemned to be either bayonetted or drowned. The gruesome scene, reminiscent of Mongol customs but also of Richard I's atrocity at Acre in 1191, is one which even Napoleon's presentational skills later fail to justify. This event is rapidly followed by plague in the French army, and by the famous moment of flamboyant courage when Napoleon, to reassure his men, visits and touches the sick in the plague hospital at Jaffa




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We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin

And this written in your language, I didn't find it in english.
Can u translate it to us:


1536 : Charles Quint passe le col de Tende dans l'arrière-pays de Nice, traverse le Var avec 90 000 hommes et ravage la Provence.
1538 : Le pape Paul III fait signer une trêve à Nice entre François Ier de France, installé au château de Villeneuve et Charles Quint qui se tient dans une galère dans la rade de Villefranche.
1543 : Siège de Nice par les troupes françaises du duc d'Enghien et la flotte turque de Barberousse, bey de Tunis. La ville se rend sauf la citadelle. Le château résiste jusqu'à l'arrivée des troupes de Charles-Quint et de Charles III de Savoie. Les assiégeants lèvent le siège le 8 septembte.

from:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice

Quote: 1536 : Charles Quint passe le col de Tende dans l'arrière-pays de Nice, traverse le Var avec 90 000 hommes et ravage la Provence. 1538 : Le pape Paul III fait signer une trêve à Nice entre François Ier de France, installé au château de Villeneuve et Charles Quint qui se tient dans une galère dans la rade de Villefranche. 1543 : Siège de Nice par les troupes françaises du duc d'Enghien et la flotte turque de Barberousse, bey de Tunis. La ville se rend sauf la citadelle. Le château résiste jusqu'à l'arrivée des troupes de Charles-Quint et de Charles III de Savoie. Les assiégeants lèvent le siège le 8 septembte. from:

That was a french assault on Nice with the help of the Turks, not a the Turks conquering a french territory. These were hapsburg territories not french territories, hapsburg territories conquered by the French with the help of the Turks. The land attack was carried out by french forces with the support of the Turks navy.



1538: Charles Quint

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We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin

Quote: 1536 : Charles Quint passe le col de Tende dans l'arrière-pays de Nice, traverse le Var avec 90 000 hommes et ravage la Provence. 1538 : Le pape Paul III fait signer une trêve à Nice entre François Ier de France, installé au château de Villeneuve et Charles Quint qui se tient dans une galère dans la rade de Villefranche. 1543 : Siège de Nice par les troupes françaises du duc d'Enghien et la flotte turque de Barberousse, bey de Tunis. La ville se rend sauf la citadelle. Le château résiste jusqu'à l'arrivée des troupes de Charles-Quint et de Charles III de Savoie. Les assiégeants lèvent le siège le 8 septembte.

Translation

1536: Charles Quint (Austrians) passed through a corridor into the Tende and with 90,000 devastated provence

1538: The pope and Francois I signed the peace treaty at nice. Charles Quint was in a galley in the harbour of VilleFranche.

1543: Siege of Nice by French troops and the turk flotilla of Barberousse, Lord of Tunis. The city surrendered except for the citadel. The castle resisted until the arrival of Charles Quint and Charles III. The Besiegers lift the siege.

Seem to me it wasn't even succesful, only after the Franco-austrian war did Nice became french.

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We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin

It was successfull as Turks staid in south of france for 5 years specially in Nice and Toulon. Actually, Turks invaded the city of Nice, but the invation of the forteress at top was unsuccessfull because of a 'Catherine Ségurane' who showed her ass to Turks who fount she was evil and they stopped invation of the fortress. But the city at bottom was invaded.
The port of Toulon has been first founded by Turks. As Turks staid their 5 years they built mosques and all was paid by french. But when french saw the great armada with which Turks came to france (140 boats) they made so that the invation of spain be delayed because they know that if the invation take place, Turks would have to much powerfull that they would never go back so they paid Turks lots of money in order they they go back to Turkey without attacking spain. And they sent an ambassador with the Turkish armada whose was to explain it to the Ottoman Sultan in Istanbul.

LOL AyYildizli. That's what I call creative history
I would like to have a look in your history book.

It doesn't matter whether France established English society or not. In 50 years ze French will be ze center of ze Islamic World.

.

In the Muslim world, war is peace, slavery is freedom.
For Muslims the only problem with the world is that we all aren't slaves of muhammed and his texts, yet they somehow think that if we were all slaves of the Quran , the bridges would still be built, cars would still be built, and food would pour from the horn of cornucopia.
That somehow they can get what they need and want "anywhere" without any thought of the processes, intellectual and physical, that bring such delights and necessities into being.

The Islamic ethic is the exact opposite of the Protestant work ethic, and it shows.










I would have made a good Pope."
- Richard M. Nixon (1913-1994)


"Plato was a bore."
- Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)

Quote: It was successfull as Turks staid in south of france for 5 years specially in Nice and Toulon. Actually, Turks invaded the city of Nice, but the invation of the forteress at top was unsuccessfull because of a 'Catherine Ségurane' who showed her ass to Turks who fount she was evil and they stopped invation of the fortress. But the city at bottom was invaded. The port of Toulon has been first founded by Turks. As Turks staid their 5 years they built mosques and all was paid by french. But when french saw the great armada with which Turks came to france (140 boats) they made so that the invation of spain be delayed because they know that if the invation take place, Turks would have to much powerfull that they would never go back so they paid Turks lots of money in order they they go back to Turkey without attacking spain. And they sent an ambassador with the Turkish armada whose was to explain it to the Ottoman Sultan in Istanbul.

Jesus Christ, you are a nutcase, I'm clearly wasting my time. Oh yea and the faeries invaded Toulon too. Best part is where he said that Toulon was founded by the Turks, roflmao.

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We were not given dominion over the earth; our forebears earned it in their long, nightmarish struggle against creatures far stronger, swifter, and better armed than ourselves, when the terror of being ripped apart and devoured was never further away than the darkness beyond the campfire's warmth. -Darwin