Discovery in Bay of Cambay Will Force
Western Archaeologists to Rewrite History
The civilization of Ancient Egypt occurred in a past so remote that today it seems mystical. The pyramids and other temples, with their hieroglyphics depicting a flourishing civilization, have a mysterious, almost magical appeal. It seems inconceivable that people of an advanced society could have walked those ancient streets.
Now, it was announced in January, a civilization has been uncovered that would have appeared just as ancient to the people who built the pyramids as the pyramids seem to us.
According to marine scientists in India, archaeological remains of this lost city have been discovered 36 metres (120 feet) underwater in the Gulf of Cambay off the western coast of India. And carbon dating says that they are 9,500 years old.
This news completely contradicts the position of most Western historians and archaeologists, who (because it did not fit their theories) have always rejected, ignored, or suppressed evidence of an older view of mankind's existence on planet Earth. Human civilization is now provably much more ancient than many have believed...(see link)
The remains of what has been described as a huge lost city may force historians and archaeologists to radically reconsider their view of ancient human history.
Marine scientists say archaeological remains discovered 36 metres (120 feet) underwater in the Gulf of Cambay off the western coast of India could be over 9,000 years old.
The vast city - which is five miles long and two miles wide - is believed to predate the oldest known remains in the subcontinent by more than 5,000 years.
The site was discovered by chance last year by oceanographers from India's National Institute of Ocean Technology conducting a survey of pollution.
Using sidescan sonar - which sends a beam of sound waves down to the bottom of the ocean they identified huge geometrical structures at a depth of 120ft.
Debris recovered from the site - including construction material, pottery, sections of walls, beads, sculpture and human bones and teeth has been carbon dated and found to be nearly 9,500 years old.
Lost civilisation
The city is believed to be even older than the ancient Harappan civilisation, which dates back around 4,000 years.
Marine archaeologists have used a technique known as sub-bottom profiling to show that the buildings remains stand on enormous foundations.
"The whole model of the origins of civilisation will have to be remade from scratch" -Graham Hancock
Author and film-maker Graham Hancock - who has written extensively on the uncovering of ancient civilisations - told BBC News Online that the evidence was compelling:
"The [oceanographers] found that they were dealing with two large blocks of apparently man made structures.
"Cities on this scale are not known in the archaeological record until roughly 4,500 years ago when the first big cities begin to appear in Mesopotamia.
"Nothing else on the scale of the underwater cities of Cambay is known. The first cities of the historical period are as far away from these cities as we are today from the pyramids of Egypt," he said.
Chronological problem
This, Mr Hancock told BBC News Online, could have massive repercussions for our view of the ancient world. Harappan remains have been found in India and Pakistan
"There's a huge chronological problem in this discovery. It means that the whole model of the origins of civilisation with which archaeologists have been working will have to be remade from scratch," he said.
However, archaeologist Justin Morris from the British Museum said more work would need to be undertaken before the site could be categorically said to belong to a 9,000 year old civilisation.
"Culturally speaking, in that part of the world there were no civilisations prior to about 2,500 BC. What's happening before then mainly consisted of small, village settlements," he told BBC News Online.
Dr Morris added that artefacts from the site would need to be very carefully analysed, and pointed out that the C14 carbon dating process is not without its error margins.
It is believed that the area was submerged as ice caps melted at the end of the last ice age 9-10,000 years ago
Although the first signs of a significant find came eight months ago, exploring the area has been extremely difficult because the remains lie in highly treacherous waters, with strong currents and rip tides.
The Indian Minister for Human Resources and ocean development said a group had been formed to oversee further studies in the area.
"We have to find out what happened then ... where and how this civilisation vanished," he said.
Theodoric, the Rig Veda stands as a historical chronicle (albeit exagerrated, so is Bible) of the Indian sub-continent. I don't know why you (Hindu-dividing using "race" origin bait) are so excited about this city, because if anything, it will only prove the existence of the Vedas in the sub-continent beyond the 1500BC date set by AIT.
Oh, and the Rig Veda talks of Sindhu-Saraswati civilization as well, which is an extended version of Indus Valley. Till they found Harappa, they thought it was BS, but it wasn't. Now, the Saraswati part is also to be discovered. Satellite pictures already show it. Astronomical accounts prove the Vedas to be over 7000 years old.
Each and every archaeological discovery is constantly debunking AIT. Before the Euros, there was no Aryan consciousness amongst Indian upper-castes (caste was there, but none tied it to race, especially when throughout history entire communities of shudras have become brahmins and vice-versa), and nor was there the pathetic color discrimination that curtails all colored people, including Indians.
If you are going to harp on a debunked theory, go ahead, you have the freedom to hate. But if you look at it logically, you will find:
1) Castes have little to do with color, you cannot tell an Indian's caste by looking at one;
2) Regionally, there is a continuity in color, south is darker, north is lighter (if you want different races, east of Bengal is where to look);
3) North-western Indians (sub-continent) have great mixture with Greek, Scythian, Persian, Kushan, Hun, what not;
4) Culturally, north Indians are more like south Indians than like say Persians;
5) What Zoroastrians call God, Hindu call Demon, and vice-versa;
6) And all these recent discoveries
This AIT is a fundamental obstacle to Hindutva as it seeks to permanently create a rift within the Hindus. While Hindus have a justified grievance against the Sword of Islam, this AIT seeks to create a similar grievance against the upper-castes (a group that has solidified in the last 2-300 years as a result of British Zamindari system) as foreign conquerors and oppressors. There is a great flaw here for the Brahmins are slave to no foreign culture. Do we pray to Persia? Do we give Farsi names to our children? Do we resemble them? Does any sane educated Brahmin take pride in the oppression that our ancestors have meted out to lower-castes? NO!! Hindutva is largely pro-Dalit, it works on a populist platform and is highly against Brahmin chauvinism. Did you read the statement by RSS leaders after 60 Dalit homes were torched in Haryana recently?
Very Well said Bharat. Couldn't have said it better.
AIT mostly relies on linguistics to prove that Sanskrit, and North Indian languages are of Indo-European origin, but Classical Sanskrit is spoken in a tone much similar to classical Dravidian languages like Tamil. And there isn't any conclusive evidence to exactly WHERE the modern Indo-European languages begin.
Here is something everybody should find quite interesting. Its a little long, but its worth reading every word. The author has done an incredible amount of research into this linguistics matter: http://www.datanumeric.com/dravidian/index.html
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17th century India, The Masters of the Oceans...
This message has been edited by Darkness1089 on Dec 3, 2005 9:44 PM This message has been edited by Darkness1089 on Dec 3, 2005 9:43 PM
________________________________________ http://www.memritv.org/ -For Laughter
The world holds two classes of men - intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence." - Abu'l-Ala-Al-Ma'arri (973-1057) Syrian poet.
"Once the word of Islam was spread by the sword -- today we are going to spread the word with Kalishnikovs." - Sheikh Abdullah el-Faisal, London-based Muslim cleric.
"It is wonderful to kill a non-believer." - Same guy as above ^_^
"The earth is flat, and anyone who disputes this claim is an atheist who deserves to be punished." [Muslim religious edict, 1993, Sheik Abdel-Aziz Ibn Baaz, Supreme religious authority, Saudi Arabia (LOL.)
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful." - Seneca the Younger (circa 4 B.C.E - 65 C.E ^.^
"There was a time when religion ruled the world. It is known as the dark ages." - Ruth Hermence Green (LOL ^_^)
"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." - Gene Roddenberry (LOL!)
"The Romans killed Jesus on the cross. His death on the cross saved us from our sins. Therefore, we should worship the Romans." - Earle Jones (Hehehe!)
Good link Gabru, it definitely shows what motivates proponents of AIT. Alienate the educated elite of the sub-continent (Brahmins) as foreigners, "prove" that Caucasian genes are necessary to "educate" India, claim that there is nothing called Indian civilization and that all ingenuity within India is foreign and Caucasian, divide up the Hindus to create a savage backlash against an imaginary distinct race of foreigners supposedly constituting the upper-castes, etc, etc, it all fits their agenda well.
Incidentally, India is the only country where even pre-history is manipulated for political purposes. Speaks of our gullibility to these devious bastardous schemes, as shown through victims like Theodoric.
War cannot be abolished by merely refusing to fight when attacked.To abolish war, you must win war and establish a just peace.
Musulmano ka hum shaitan,
Desh humara Hindusthan.
Badmaashi karoge to bhejdenge Kabarsthan.
An influx of Indo-Europeans into the Indus Valley occured at some point in the history of the subcontinenet, because the movements of teh Indo-Europeans into other parts of Eurasia is well documented(the Hurrians, Dorians, and Kurgans are well documented), but that of the Iranians and Indo-Aryans is not.
If its true for other regions nearby then how can it be false for the subcontinent? Their must be some basis to it, eveb if their was never a major invasion and transfer of genes.
The new theory that the Indo-European languages spread out of India, can not be verified by following Ancient Egyptian or Greek History, but that of a movement towards India can.
Before I learned about the AIT, I never assumed that Anceint Indian history can have a foreign basis, and I still dont. All the Aryans brought in was their language and genes. Indian culture is Dravidian...
"Who are the rulers of the lands beyond Guraiz and Burzil? The Darada Rajas."
The Rajatarangini
hi this is not the lost city dwarka?, I did saw a documentary regarding the city of dwarka under the sea. Some India profesor said that he have found the city under sea.
It was in mahabratha if i was not mistaken, btw is there an english version for mahabratha some where in the internet. could you give the url plzz.
And to add to that, the Rig Veda is full of hymns praising Bharat Mata, the mother goddess of the Indian sub-continent.
And Darada, if the migration of the Iranians and Indo-Aryans isn't well-documented, why not use Rig Veda as the source? There are references of it being written in the sub-continent far far before AIT suggestion, such as astronomical references, and Dwarka being rediscovered is simply more evidence. BTW, I'd suggest reading up on the Vimaanika Shastra and Samaranga Sutradhara, ancient Hindu texts that talk of mercury-propelled spacecraft and nuclear warfare with Atlantis.
I hear of Iranians claiming that Iran is the homland of Indo-Europeans. Why then can't Hindus claim it is the sub-continent instead? The "scholars" say it is impossible for two races to develop in such proximity, but then how is the Iran theory accepted as it is pretty close to Semetic peoples.
Posting pictures of Fair and Lovely applying color-inferiority diagnosed north Indians against rural south Indians does little justice. Whatever little difference there is between South Asians (this btw is invisible to foreigners like even Iranians) can be attributed to the several RECORDED mass migrations like the GREEKS, BACTRIANS, WHITE HUNS, SAKAS, PARTHIANS, PERSIANS, KUSHANS, TOCHARIANS, TURKS, MONGOLS, ARABS, etc, etc.
My father's side of the family is Saka, a Scythian tribe. That side of my family fits into this decription exactly: "Black people with straight hair". They are Kshatriyas, one could only imagine that the original Sakas have been taking local Indian wives, and today the Scythian-ness lives only in last-name.
My mother's side of the family is pure Bengali Brahmins. I agree they look like Italians/Spaniards, but one must remember that Bengal has hosted a lot of migrations from South-East Asia and Tibet and other such Mongoloids.
I have read about both those texts and they may be indeigenous anceint Dravidian in origin.
Maybe some of the Vedas were originally in Dravidian languages and later the Indo-European ones were added into it and compiled in a new language, Sanskrit.
It is often assumed that the Aryans spoke Sanskrit. Wrong. All the different branches of the Aryans spoke different, though very similar, languages.
The Indo-Aryans originally spoke Old Indo-Aryan which became Sanskrit when they settled in India. That is possibly why Sanskrit has a Darvidian tone.
I agree 100% that Indian culture and religion are for the most part indigenous Dravidian, but thats not to say that the Ancient Indo-Aryans did not exist and spread the Indo-Aryan languages...
"Who are the rulers of the lands beyond Guraiz and Burzil? The Darada Rajas."
The Rajatarangini
The Scythian story in India is probably the same as that of the Syed "Arabs" of India, cause technically, there must be more Arabs in the sub-continent than all of Arabia itself.
This man is a Syed from Bengal, he was wicket-keeper for Indian team in the late 90s, Syed Saba Karim.
BTW, what I am saying is that all Indian sub-continental people have the same phenotype. The only major difference apparent on a mass level is when one moves east of Coochbehar, West Bengal and north of Sylhet, East Bengal. Although I am a mix, I have come out looking like my mother's side of the family almost 100%, so I can talk of racial characteristics of Brahmins. This is me sitting next to my Colombian best friend (he is all Castellano Spanish, with an Arab great-grandfather). Even though there isn't much difference in color, and even though we are supposed to be Indo-European, my eyes and eyebrows tell of my racial difference from the Indo-Europeans.
No other damn race in the whole world has those eyes. From Kashmir to Sinhala, it is the same eyes, from Baluchisthan to Bangladesh, it is the same eyes. Hell, we even make our Gods and Goddesses in our image, right? Look at them:
Maa Durga
Mahadev
Shri Krishna
Incidentally, when I was born, people said I have the eyes of the Gods, therefore bow to me and listen to my word.
Darada, I most agree with that interpretation of AIT, than the more preposterous one of us Brahmins being silver-blonde barbarians swooping upon hapless populations and imposing a foreign Sanskrit, a foreign Hinduism, a foreign caste system. As we can see from the evidence above, Brahmins are not silver-blondes, we don't look as out of place as the whites in Jamaica or Haiti (there are plenty).
It is funny how the paradox sets itself up though. If we take the AIT to be true, then the Aryan Brahmins are slave to Dravidian (Indian) culture, just like the Scythians, Bactrians, Persians, Huns, etc. It is classic example of do in Rome as Romans do. If "we" are "foreigners" here, at least we are like the natives. Its not comparable to the Dravidians that are slave to Arab culture though.....
I have always called those eyes "bengali eyes" as people from West Bengal have them quite often.
Plus I can tell an Indian from a Pakistani just at a glance by the noses and eyes. I dont know how and cant explain it but Im right 80% of the time.
Youre friend looks like my cousin Haroon (I have a lot of cousins, I mustve said a million people posted on this forum, Turk, Persian, and now Spanish look like some relative of mine).
Thing is Pakis are a mixed up bunch of people becasue of the countless invasions from the west.
Indians are more "pure".
"Who are the rulers of the lands beyond Guraiz and Burzil? The Darada Rajas."
The Rajatarangini
I hate to sound liek an ultra-nationalist Pakistani(God knows Im not one), but the thing is culturally even before partition people from what is now Pakistan had a different culture from those from other parts of the subcontinent.
Im not talking about Punajbi or Sindhi culture(lets face it Pashtuns and Balochis just aint Indian) but a combined northwesetern culture. Evident in clothing and geenral lifestyle and not divided along ethnic lines. Hindus and Muslims both shared this culture.
That is why we call Hindustani immigarnts Mohajirs. Their culture is just too different.
End of the day though we made Islam our only basis of nationhood so a Muslim from Bihar is more similar to us than a Punjabi Hindu who speaks the same language and wears the same clothes.
"Who are the rulers of the lands beyond Guraiz and Burzil? The Darada Rajas."
The Rajatarangini
But other parts of sub-continent are also distinct from each other, you can't fail to see that. It is natural for you as someone from north-western part of sub-continent to lump together the Hindustanis, the Bengalis, the Assamese, the Marathis, the Tamils, etc, cause everyone is more respecting of their own diversity than other's.
But looking at it objectively, Punjab is just as different from Hindustan as Bengal is from Hindustan, and the equation plays out in all directions. Punjab might have more similarity with Sindh, Bengal has more similarity with Kalinga, these are little things though.
