edit: poll closed.. results are in..
Eight year war
who won the eight year war between iran and iraq?your vote is totally anonymous and cannot be viewed. you may discuss in a thread below.

iran 27.91 % (91)
iraq 43.25 % (141)
neither 28.83 % (94)
Total votes: 326

I voted neither, the war ended in a stalemate. Both countries tried and were unable to make lasting territorial gains against the other.

Same as Gyrene

I voted the same as Pax and Gyrene,Neither gained any thing from this war except economies in shambles and millions dead and homeless.



--------------------------------------------

"If Nature is opposed, we will fight her and make her obbey us."

-Simon Bolivar

oh contraire !


The Iraqi Invasion and defense, completely destroyed any threat to Iraq from the Iranian Revolution and its American and British equipped forces.

The Scale of Iranian equipment loss cannot be overstated.

The Iraqis were able to supply

a Few dozen Brazilian Armored Cars to the M-e-k Organization.

Over 300 Cheiftan and Scorpion Tanks to Jordan.

the fact that on the end of war celebrations in Baghdad Iraq put on display comprising some half of all known Iranian Tank and Apc and 3/4ths of all artillery before world wide press attention, this fact has been overlooked.

In 1990 during the build up to war known as desert shield, The Iraqis had a treaty with Iran where Iranian terratory was handed back, in exchange for Iranian co-operation during iraqs war with the coalition.

the scope of this co-operation is unknown, but surely would have been the return of the Iraqi airforce and its jets back from Iran.

Neither.

This is a bloody disgrace. Less voted for "Iran" or "Neither" than they did for "Iraq." Such ignorant fools there are on this forum!



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleiman, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

neither

---




They dance tsifte-teli, sit on lounges, drink coffee & ouzo and eat feta, doner, dolmades, baklava, mezes, tzatziki, imam-baildi, souvlaki, moussakas etc.

Is Feta enough to make one Greek?

iraq wanted territory from iran and ultimatley failed,
iran had to defend its territory and succeded,
judging on who were the agressors (almost unanimously iraq), then they failed in there ultimate goal, whereas the defenders succeeded in there goal (despitre heavy losses)

The russians lost more men than any in the war and yet they were not the losers

@Arash

If Iran had just acted in defense of its own territory I'd agree, but after pushing the Iraqis out of Iran it tried to institute regime change. Khomeini himself stated at one point that Iran would not cease fighting until Saddam was toppled.

I voted neither, because it ended in stalemate.

Although if i was pushed i would probably have to consider the fact that the original intention of the war was for Iraq to seize Iranian territory, at which they failed.
I'd also have to take in to consideration the arms embargo that the Iranians were under for the entire duration of the war, and they still managed to give a good account of themselves.

So if i was pushed i'd say Iran.

Neiter too.
But, Brazil,specialy the army factory called IMBEL, won many money saleing weapons to both sides.
I friend of mine buy a million dollars house in Barra da Tijuca ,Rio de Janeiro,and a new Mercedes sedan with commitions sales money;he loved these war,great to him,he won too.

@Jason





"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleiman, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

So anyone that says Iran is in good terms with you Issa? Wow.

Don't tell me you voted for Iraq, Codala.

Anyone with a sane mind will choose Iran (or, at least, choose 'neither').



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

two to one for iraq at 938 pm tx time.

LOL. Like the poll results matter down here on earth.



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

Like you can refute claims of 3/4ths of all known iranian heavy equipment holdings displayed promimently before the world press by saddams Iraq.

Neither,

Iraq failed to succeed in its invasion, the Iran failed to succeed in its desire to get rid of Saddam. So, you could say the Iranians won because Saddam didn't take what he wanted from them and you can say that the Iraqis won because Saddam got to stay in power (now isn't that stomach churning?) Too many people died in that war for nothing but the status quo.

Iran

Iran just had a revolution, No stable goverment, leaders, army. Alot of civilians fought the war. Full sanctions on Iran, oil couldnt get through, no one would help or sell to Iran. Man vs Tank.

Iraq Fully armed to the teech with latest Russian and French goods, Billions in funds from Arab league, Satelite images from US and chemical weapons.

Irans population was alot lower back then and alot younger.
60 % of IRanians today are under 30 years of age which means they were too young to fight.

Iran Crushed Iraq pushed them back and started an offensive campaign. Why?

1. Blood thirsty saddam would rearm and attack Iran again cuz he cant stand a lose, so Iran was under threat and pressure.

2. Iraq started the war for no reason and Iran wanted compensation for the retreating Iraq's for the damage they did to our land they refused.

3. World was behind Iraq and wanted them to win! (speacially USA)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------


You don't know Isreali Propaganda until you meet f16il!

The Iraqi army back then was 170,000.
The major arms shipments didnt enter into Iraq untill 1982-3.

The goal was simple destroy the iranian threat of exporting the revolution.

destroy much of the western superior equipments.

and Iraq did.

there was no Mullacracy in Iraq, untill the cowboys took Iraq.

Within only few days after the start of the war, the Iraqi troops already learned to fear the attacks of the Iranian air force - especially the AGM-65 Maverick-armed F-4Es: the crew of this BMP-1 is evacuating their vehile in hurry because of two Phantoms that appeared over the horizont.



T-62s of the 6th Iraqi AD seen on the Karakeh Plain, in March 1982: weeks later, this unit was almost annihiliated by Iranian attacks which turned the course of the war against Iraq.


T-62 of the 3rd AD passing down the streets of Khoramshahr: only a handfull of buildings in the city were not destroyed during the fighting in October and November 1980, resulting in Khramshahr frequently being nicknamed "Iranian Stalingrad".


Iranian Chieftain MBT seen early during the war. The Iranians had only one Armored Division stationed in Khuzestan on the start of the war, and this was actually still in organization in 1979, when the Islamic Revolution developed. Consequently, the unit was not ready for fighting when the Iraqi invasion came. Nevertheless, the two of its armored brigades did their best to help stop the Iraqi advance.


Deemed "written off" by all Western sources, Iranian fleet of F-14As remained fully operational and played the most prominent role in the air defense of strategically important installations during all eight years of the air war between Iraq and Iran. The type not only scored dozens of kills, but was even more influential due to its sheer firepower: the Iraqis so feared the F-14 and its AIM-54A missiles that their pilots were instructed to avoid engagements with Tomcats at any price. Therefore, almost 60% of engagements between Iranian F-14s and Iraqi aircraft ended without even a bullet being fired – but with Iraqis retreating at high speed. Those which failed to recognize the threat, or decided to continue, usually suffered extremely heavy losses as Iranian Tomcats scored repeatedly using all available weapons. Never before in the history of modern air warfare could any interceptor claim such effectiveness. (Author's collection)



USN A-6E from VA-95 “Green Lizards” dropping CBUs on Iranian warships and speedboats during the Operation Praying Mantis, on April 18, 1988. Praying Mantis almost broke the back of the Iranian Navy, decreased its capability to escort convoys of oil tankers between the Khark Island and the Hormuz, and almost crushed the superiority it had enjoyed in the war against Iraq so far. Nevertheless, for the Iraqis, this operation came too late, as by that time they had given up trying to stop the Iranian oil exports via Khark. (USN photo)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


"The Eneny of my Enemy is my Friend"

"Iraq Prevailed in the 8 Year War"

The Iraqi army back then was 170,000.
The major arms shipments didnt enter into Iraq untill 1982-3.

The goal was simple destroy the iranian threat of exporting the revolution.

destroy much of the western superior equipments.

and Iraq did.

there was no Mullacracy in Iraq, untill the cowboys took Iraq.

LOL! What can I say? Five to one success ratio in air-to-air engagements, 150 to one success ratio for our Air Cavalry, and designing and implementing the most successful air raid in modern history are all great feats on their own, let alone when you consider the factors such as puppet Ba'si regime being supplied with top-of-the-line Russian and French military hardware, arms embargo on Iran, the second front created via MKO, the third front created via USN...



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

"3. World was behind Iraq and wanted them to win! (speacially USA)"

I disagree with your statement "especially the USA." Iraq recieved much more military aid from both the Soviet Union and France than it did the US.

It was a bloody stalemate.

Neither side "won" anything more than its own governmental survival.

I voted for Iran. I looked at it from the perspective of both countries, and saw it as a some what Pyrrhic victory for Iran, but I guess a win none the less. Iran was left with little to be happy about other then its 'removal' of Iraqi troops from their lands, and not exactly losing out in the diplomatic talks afterwards. Iraq never achieved its goal and therefore can be said it lost. You can't merely say they wanted to reduce Irans army to nothing so that it was no future challenge. Saddam's goal was to crush Iran and its revolutionary government and gain land and resources in the process. None of this was achieved, and as a matter of fact, Iranians actually became more united under the new leadership, which was terribly weak in its first year or so. It became centralised afterwards, so Saddam actually helped the revolution to reach full circle so to speak. Iraq lost out in its objectives and pointless amount of people died, but Iran was demolished in the process.



"They shall not grow old, as we that are left grow old.
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun, and in the morning
We will remember them.
Lest we forget."

say what you will the figures speak for themselves.


3/4ths of all KNOWN IRANIAN HEAVY EQUIPMENT WAS ON DISPLAY IN IRAQ.


From tank to artillery through apcs!

Iraq was not thrown from Iranian terratory, they pulled out of an indefensible posistion opposite the shat al arab.

They then held defensible lines.

after major bloodletting Iraq then sized iranian terratory and khomeni refused to deal.


at the time of the UN cease fire...

Where were Iranian troops? (anwser in Iran)

Where were Iraqi Troops? (anwser in Iranian terratory)

All these figures from iran about 150 to one, and 5 to one kill ratios.... RUBBISH

and for the record I am Libyan we supported the Iranians in the war, The Americans supported Iran also!

IRAN CONTRA AFFAIR....
US SENT TOW MISSILES SPARES AND OTHER MATERIALS TO IRAN....

I think United States is the sole victor of that war.

Abudall why do you make up so much bull****? 3/4 of IRanian armor in display? Iraq's positioning them selves over? You are just full of crap!

US was backing Iraq giving them satelite images, intel, chemical weapons. Iran-COntra was a secret cia thing and not USA in general.


"Little Iraqi's that won the war repositioning them selves back in Iraq"


Boots left by fleeing Iraqi Soldiers so they can run away in fear faster.

Images of dead people not allowed.-Issa
Dead Iraqi's across the Shat al Arab in trenches.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


"The Eneny of my Enemy is my Friend"

"Iraq Prevailed in the 8 Year War"

Come on babak.

you think there were no examples of Iranian boots left in iraq?

beleieve it or not many arab troops have a adversion to boots, they grew up barefoot and on the sand know they can run or perversely run away faster.
without boots.

Iran Iraq war was a terrible war,

but is also terrible to portray one side as the agressor as someone harmed whos sacred duty was defense!

Was it defense when the shahs army shelled Iraq in 1975?

Was it defense when Iranian agents blew up bombs in baghdad?

Was it defense when khomeni talked about the export of the revolution?

Yes Abdullah! THe war was terrible! It was Saddam/Iraq fault though that is no question. Saddam was bloodthirsty and wanted Land and hated persians.

With all help Iraq got and all the disadvantages Iran had the war remained in Iran's favour.

Though Iran didnt get the compensation they were looking for few years later when USA attacked Iraq we got 100 war planes or so from them to "hold" and never gave them back.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


"The Eneny of my Enemy is my Friend"

"Iraq Prevailed in the 8 Year War"

"Don't tell me you voted for Iraq, Codala.

Anyone with a sane mind will choose Iran (or, at least, choose 'neither')."

Buddy , I posted above saying I voted neither so no hard feelings. The thing is I havent gotten around to learning about history of the Middle East all that much besides The Gulf War and bits and pieces of how the Iran-Iar war started and ended. But please feel free to inform me

Btw a friend of mine , her mothers brothers were POW's (Iraqi)

Just felt like adding something...

Yea the Curry monster indians and China men voted Iraq jsut to screw over Iran.

Its funny though! What did Iraq acheive???

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


"The Eneny of my Enemy is my Friend"

"Iraq Prevailed in the 8 Year War"

All these figures from iran about 150 to one, and 5 to one kill ratios.... RUBBISH

Hmmm... who is more credible? Tom Cooper or Comrade Abdullah?

Rubbish? 23 MiG-23BNs were downed on a single day (September 23, 1980) by our Tomcats. And that was only one day, and that was only against the MiG-23BN, and that was only with our Tomcats!

Here are some other F-14 statistics which may interest you:

US Navy Kill Record
Confirmed Kills ________ 6
Unconfirmed Kills ______ 1
Damage/Close Calls _____ 2
Forced Down ____________ 1
Radar Lock-ons _________ 3
Fractricide ____________ 1

Iranian Air Force Kills Against The Iraqi Air Force
Confirmed Kills ________ 136
Unconfirmed Kills ______ 5
Shared Kill ____________ 1
Damage/Close Calls _____ 8

Iraqi Air Force Kill Claims Against The Iranian Air Force
Confirmed Kills ________ 3
Unconfirmed Kills ______ 9
Damage/Close Calls _____ 1

5 to 1 was our overall kill ratio. 150 to 4 was our Tomcat kill ratio. A rather favorable exchange, no?

@Codala

This topic will be best explained by our resident veterans (Bozorgh, Izirbat, and AryanShah)!



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

It seems that voters are more sane now:

who won the eight year war between iran and iraq?your vote is totally anonymous and cannot be viewed. you may discuss in a thread below.

iran 35.50 % (71)
iraq 28.00 % (56)
neither 36.50 % (73)
Total votes: 200



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

"Yea the Curry monster indians and China men voted Iraq jsut to screw over Iran."

And i thought India had good diplomatic realtions with Iran if not better than Iraq. I dont know who voted for whom in the poll. If i were to vote i would say Iran won the war if the Iranians sole purpose was to defend their country. But if they wanted to copy USSR and invade Iraq itself then they failed. But still, go easy on people who voted neither or for Iraq, after all everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. Besides you guys shouldnt take undue advantage of the lack of Iraqi posters in this forum.

I said neither but not just because it ended in stalemate.There are many wars that have ended in stalemate,yet one side clearly took a beating.1812 between britain/canada and america being a prime example,only americans and modest brits say that was a draw,where as everyone elses would agree that the americans got their asses handed to them ..royally,lol.

Iran/iraq is similar to korea (except for the fact that the commies attacked first)...

Iraq attacked iran with superior equipment and got quite far,but the iranians with more than double the number of men were always gonna 'win' a war of atrition.The iranians succesfully defended iran(albeit inevitably since they had far superior numbers) ,at this point it would be fair to say iran had won..but instead they went on the offensive and the iraqis succesfuly defended themselves against a much larger force.No side took more of a beating than the other,iran lost more men,but it didnt have the tech or equipment of iraq.So this war truly is a stalemate.

I stand by my choice of NEITHER, but I must admit Iranians were more successful than Iraqis in the war. No country gained any ground or lost any, just lost thousands of men, machines, etc. and millions in cash.

-----------------------------------
17th century India, The Masters of the Oceans...

Only reason Iran Attacked IRaq was that it was under pressure that saddam will rearm and attack agian and we also wanted compensation for war damages.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


"The Eneny of my Enemy is my Friend"
"Iraq Prevailed in the 8 Year War"
"We Shall be Walking in Tehrans Street within 3 Days"
-Saddam Hussein

Nice sig quotes, Babak.



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

I smell some shady doings. Look at the sudden change in results. How did you pull this off, Patrick?

who won the eight year war between iran and iraq?your vote is totally anonymous and cannot be viewed. you may discuss in a thread below.

iran 29.03 % (81)
iraq 40.86 % (114)
neither 30.11 % (84)
Total votes: 279



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

AHAHAHAHAHAHAH@ This is funny! More ppl voted for Iraq than neither or IRan.

Damn you guysare just ****ing stupid.. plane a nd simple. Dumb ****s that voted for Iraq ok so i will have to say it would have been the Americans voted Iraq because they just hate Iran.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


"The Eneny of my Enemy is my Friend"
"Iraq Prevailed in the 8 Year War"
"We Shall be Walking in Tehrans Street within 3 Days"
-Saddam Hussein

Bro Abdullah,
where are you?

I wanna see you reply to the counter replies, especially Issa's!
with a respond that actually relates to Issa's presented facts and
numbers.

And not to retaliate with a vague statement about it not being
true, and jsut ending the discussion!

Eight year war
who won the eight year war between iran and iraq?your vote is totally anonymous and cannot be viewed. you may discuss in a thread below.

iran 27.91 % (91)
iraq 43.25 % (141)
neither 28.83 % (94)
Total votes: 326

Clearly this poll has been fuked up some how.I dont understand why losers have to cheat these polls? how pathetic...

I placed it in the historical/cc forum so that a wide range of nationalities, not just iranians, could vote.. hence the outcome..



_______________________________________
regards,

ãÇی˜ or ãÇی˜á

How did you pull this off, Patrick? I am waiting for the hidden camera to appear somewhere and for you to pop out.

Oh, well. For now, I will argue against the legitimacy of Iranian casualty numbers which are thrown around by dirty Ba'athists. To illustrate what I mean, I will refer to Karbala-4 Offensive (which, mind you, was one of Iran's greatest failures of the war):

In April of 1987, within hours of launching what was meant to be Iran's Final Offensive, it became known that the Iraqi Forces in the combat zone were prepared and well aware of the incoming attack. The enemy was already firing into designated assembly areas and the Iraqi Air Force was called (although, they usually responded by the next morning). Under such conditions, our military leaders were forced to send out a recall to stop the offensive.

As only 20% of the original Karbala-4 Attacking Force was committed to the battlefield before the recall, all troops were ordered back (although, in some sectors, troops had penetrated deep into enemy lines).

Obviously, the Iranian Media had already started announcing the offensive, so when, within 48 hours, the final offensive fell silent, the Iranian people grew concerned. Had there been a disaster? Had the Ba'athists smashed the Iranian offensive that had been planned for over a year?

On the Iraqi side, which all Foreign media outlets received their info from, the propaganda machine went into overdrive. The Iraqi Armed Forces communique stated that, in those 72 hours, the Iraqis had inflicted 90,000 Iranian casualties.

The Ba'athists created a clever slogan: "For every dead Iraqi, there will be 100 dead Iranians." Saddam called his top General to Baghdad. Medals were issued, holiday passes were issued to troops, and a feeling of national pride and invincibility swept across Iraq; the Iranian Final offensive had been smashed with ease.

However, back on planet Earth, the Iranian casualties for the abortive Karbala-4 offensive were 985 killed in action, with another 8,071 wounded.

With their main forces intact, Iranian Khatam-Anbeya HQ kept silent and quietly planned. Just two weeks later, Karbala-5 was launched. On its first day, it brought Iranian troops within 10km of Basra. Karbala-5 was to become the largest, most intense, and longest offensive of the war. It broke the backs of both Iraq and Iran and showed that the two sides were too evenly matched for the war to produce a decisive victor. The end result of the offensive: Iranian forces were positioned within 16km of Basra (we were 28km away when the operation was initiated).



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

well obviously these polls are biased, anyone with a grudge against Iran is gonna vote for Iraq, and we all know there is ten times more people with grudges against Iranians than Iraqis here(since Iraq is under western adminstration and Iran is defying the west), I voted neither.

However these polls are just for fun, it shouldn't be taken seriously.

People voted the U.S government as more evil than Hitler,Stalin and Saddam. Come on.

I voted IRAN....my uncle was in that war for 2 years and has told me some crazy stuff.

Anyway that freak abdullah has done something......or perhaps someone else. But **** it....Devand is right.

Where is the Ba'athist?



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

baba khodesh midune che gohi khorde.......everyone know there's something smelly about this.

"the fact that on the end of war celebrations in Baghdad Iraq put on display comprising some half of all known Iranian Tank and Apc and 3/4ths of all artillery before world wide press attention, this fact has been overlooked."

BULL ****

There is no way they captured 3/4 of iranian artillery. If they had taken so much equipment then they clearly would have been able to decisively beat the Iranians.

In the end it was Saddam that proposed an end to hostilities.

Well said, BarbaMitso, but it was Saddam who begged (not proposed) an end to hostilities.



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

why is it some of you have to criticise the poll and act as if it was a conspiracy rather than accept that more people voted a certain way?

I am not arguing that you or Polizei rigged the poll (as others sometimes do). I am arguing that Patrick cleaned out a Dell factory and voted many times.



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

lol.

I have sent all the availible evidences to support my argument to the appropriate people.




In the name of Allah the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful

The Arab Baath Socialist Party


One Arab Nation with an Eternal Mission

Unity, Liberty, Socialism


A 'Palestinian Terrorist'...

'why is it some of you have to criticise the poll and act as if it was a conspiracy rather than accept that more people voted a certain way?'

After about 24-48 hours this poll was fair,after that the whole thing got turned upside down and someone had blatantly 'cheated' a result.

Sadly this seems to happen to most waff polls...guess thats why most people dont take them seroiusly..

Im not an iranian and certainly not their biggest fan,but someonme who doesnt like iran and didnt like the way this poll was going fuked this poll up.

Quote: I have sent all the availible evidences to support my argument to the appropriate people.

LOL! What are you going to do to celebrate your glorious Ba'athist victory, Abdullah? Drink alcohol and eat non-halal meat? Ha!



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

Well said, Nero. I never thought I would agree with you on any issue! LOL.



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

No I will celebrate probably with an Iranian girl.

Here is how you party Ba'athist style!



Not as fun when you party on our accords!

















"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

"No I will celebrate probably with an Iranian girl."



here is the best u can get!! have fun celebrating your "victory" Irab...

-----------------------------------------------
"No one gets outta here alive"
Jim Morrison

lol the ignorance of your youth.

You confirm the drug problem in iran and within the iranian youth has reached epidemic levels.



(For years he mesmerized the World)

You confirm that the Ba'athists lost the war.



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

against the us the struggle continues...

against Iran? the iranians never reached basra.



(For years he mesmerized the World)

And how come we couldnt my dear anti persien fool?....world powers behind iraq?....use of WMD?...wake up buddy.

Patrick, please give us your reasoning behind thinking Iraq won the war (and don't even try mentioning the poll results; the people who voted for Iraq are the same Westerners whom you ridicule and insult every day on this forum!).



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

I know you are reading this, Abdul! I saw your name!



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

Alright, Abdul. Alright. But, in not responding, you are admitting to defeat.



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

I have.


Iraq had but one aggenda, that being the destruction of Irans Qualitative and Numerical edge over his forces.

Iraq used arabistan as a causus belli for this attack.

Iran gave Saddam several other reasons to attack

that being the near assasination of tariq aziz,the arming of the kurds and the shelling of iraqi soil.


Iraq invaded Iran.


Iraq realising their small army (1979-1) was in a hopeless defensless posistion pulled out.

Iranian light infanty were able to do incredible feats in the soft mud of Ahwaz and opposite the rivers.


Iraqi forces pulled out after never being able to get the arabs of arabistan to support them.

Iran then Invaded Iraq, and Iraq also invaded northern and central Iran in order to attempt the Iranians to draw off some of their large forces from the south.


The Iraqis built huge forifications and gun emplacements, the Iranians did human wave assaults with the expected casualties of such a foolish measure.


No less than 7 final assaults against basra were beaten off. with over tens of thousand of needless Iranian Casualties.


With the Capture of Al Faw peninsula the Iranians could easily reinforce their forces and even begin to bring in heavier equipment and supply chains.


In 1987 the Iraqis launched the opperation to retake al faw, and quickly crushed the Iranian forces driving them out of Iraq and again assaulted the city of Merhan.


In the end of the war.


Iraqi airforce was able to do 460 sorties a day
Iran was able to do 35-70 sorties per day.


Iraqi groundforces had over 4,000 tanks
Iranian groundforces had under 650 tanks.


Iraq put of display some three quarters of all known iranian heavy equipments to include tanks, artillery pieces air defense.

Iraq recieved so much Iranian equipments they set up a anti theocratic Govt with Iranian weapons the MKO and gave as a gift over 200 cheiftan tanks and 120 scorpions to Jordan.


there are reports both the Mko and Jordan recieved m109s and m108s.

after 1989 Iran no longer talked about exporting the revolution to Iraq.




(For years he mesmerized the World)

also the Iraqi military only expanded in 1983-4 and there was also a war of the cities where iranian strikes and vice versa were met with balistic missiles


Libya freely gave Iran the scuds with which iran retaliated.





(For years he mesmerized the World)

no one cheated nero... unless you were here every minute I don't see how you can say that..



_______________________________________
regards,

ãÇی˜ or ãÇی˜á

Quote: I have.

Admitted to defeat?

Quote: Iraq had but one aggenda, that being the destruction of Irans Qualitative and Numerical edge over his forces.

Saddam: "We will reach Tehran within two weeks."
Not the rhetoric of a man who wishes only to weaken the opposing army, but the rhetoric of one who is dellusional enough to think he can conquer the nation he is at war with.

Quote: Iraq invaded Iran.

I agree.

Quote: Iraq realising their small army (1979-1) was in a hopeless defensless posistion pulled out.

Correction: Forced out. Ever hear of Operation Beit al-Moghaddas?

Quote: Iraqi forces pulled out after never being able to get the arabs of arabistan to support them.

Yes. Further illustrating how dellusional Saddam was.

Quote: Iran then Invaded Iraq, and Iraq also invaded northern and central Iran in order to attempt the Iranians to draw off some of their large forces from the south.

With great failure! We occupied most of Iraqi Kurdistan after capturing Faw.

Quote: No less than 7 final assaults against basra were beaten off. with over tens of thousand of needless Iranian Casualties.

Perhaps, but at least we were not expelled from Iraq entirely.

Quote: Iraqi airforce was able to do 460 sorties a day Iran was able to do 35-70 sorties per day.

Yet, we had a 5 to 1 kill ratio. This is not so much an Iraqi achievement as it is a joint Russian/French achievement (if it can even be considered an achievement).

Quote: after 1989 Iran no longer talked about exporting the revolution to Iraq.

Nor are the Ba'athists in power anymore!



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

By the way, Abdul, your statistics (number of attack sorties, number of tanks, etc.) prove nothing other than the fact that the Ba'athists had immense foreign support.



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

On the eve of the american attack on Iraq the Iraqis handed terratory back to Iran.

seems impossible Iran would be in a posistion to recieve Iranian lands unless Iraq occupied them.



(For years he mesmerized the World)

We ended the war on the 1975 border (in a draw, in spite of massive inequities), and are now in position to have a pro-Iranian Shi'a government rise to power in Iraq.



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

Haha are you proud that all the biggest powers helped your ass with weapons? Or that the arabs gave iraq billions?

and you still achieved NOTHING. How pathatic.

Iraq was most likely the biggest loser in the war as there were no winner per se However we do neglect a very important thing, and that is that the mullahs strengthened their position in Iran and a lot of that can be directly attributed to the war, however not the outcome of the war. So either way, the mullahs and hardliners definitely benefited the most in the end.

no more proud the superpowers helped us, than they helped you.


Iran recieved AMERICAN and ISRAELI AID.




(For years he mesmerized the World)

Our material aid from those nations were about equal to that of yours. Not to mention, our biggest arms supplier (China) sold the Iraqis three times as much as they did us. And they were not Iraq's primary supporters. France and Russia gave you the hardware. US gave you the economic aid, sprung MKO against us, imposed an arms embargo upon us, and opened a second front for you in the Gulf. The UNSC did nothing to keep you from using your gases (for they were profiteering from these gassings!). Under such circumstances, anything other than the establishment of a "Free Iranian Republic" (as the Ba'athists called it) should be considered a loss. Therefore, a draw is in fact a loss for Iraq.

And do not even try pitching the ridiculous notion that the playing field was even.



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

and do not forget that Iraqs Goal was the erradication of the military threat of Iran

and that was done.



(For years he mesmerized the World)

First of all, why must you shift the topic as soon as your back is to the wall? Secondly, what is your source for this? Iraq's goal was to conquer Iran (or, at least, a large portion of it; possibly Khuzestan). My source is the tongue of none other than Saddam Hussein! Let us assume that your laughable suggestion is true. In the long run, was he successful? As I stated earlier, Iran is now in position to have a pro-Iranian Shi'a government in Iraq, thus (finally), having a buffer zone from hostile nations.



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

yes and none of these things were done by Iranian Hands.

NONE



(For years he mesmerized the World)

LOL. If you continue to perform so poorly, Abdoodool, then you may as well quit. The fact that it is not being done by Iranian hands is to our benefit! We suffer no bloodshed, but reap the benefits!



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

@Abdullah

Actually there are some aspects that you have neglected. Personally I think that the 8 year war ended up in a draw at the end of the EIGHT years. However, time continues after that. Before the start of the war with Iran, Iraq had well over 50 billion dollars in reserve; at the end of the war they had a debt to other Arab nations in order of 90 billion dollars. They had lost at least 200,000 lives and probably 400,000 became maimed for life. In addition they had not gained an inch of territory.

The debt to Kuwait was a great factor in Saddam’s error in attacking Kuwait and bringing the military might of USA against his nation. Another 150,000 were lost again giver warfare I would suspect a further 300,000 maimed for life. They had equivalent of 8 Hiroshima bombs dropped on them, all and every work already done on their infrastructure were pulverized in space of a month. Saddam being the genius that he was continued his betrayal of his country and nation, after that disaster, sanctions came, his people suffered for ten years, estimates are that 1,000,000 more mainly children died in those ten years. Then came the second war with USA, now look at them? What do they have now? A shattered country, no infra structure to speak of, years of suffering and many years of very hard life ahead of them just to catch up.

All the above events form a natural chain of stupidity and all because he started a pointless war with Iran. If you take a 25 year view instead of an 8 year view the big loser is definitely Iraq.

In addition to all the above Iraq as a nation faces an unbelievable dark age ahead, again due to previous events. This part you have to bear with me a bit till I explain. Most people don’t realize that the greatest cause of destruction of civilizations has been water or lack of it to be more precise. The chances are that the next war in ME will be fought over water rights. During the sanction years both Turkey and Iran started a great deal of work on dam building. They both of course need the water internally. Turkey is in the process of building 17 dams on Euphrates and Tigris. Iran has already dammed Karkeh River. There are plans to ultimately build 7 dams on Karoon River. The two countries together will reduce the water budget of Iraq by somewhere round 70-80%. The incursions into northern Iraq by Turkish army were in fact military rehearsals for the coming events. All of this is happening and the Iraqis nation is completely oblivious due to its internal state. Turkey already has announced that it is prepared to sell water to Iraq. Iran won’t do that as the water is needed inside Iran. Iraq will not be in any position to even make legal threats on this issue in the next ten years never mind militarily. In short due to a chain of events starting with a war with Iran they are and will be well and truly up in the creek without any paddles in sight.

LMAO you know this forum has become corrupt when more people voted holocust was a fake. Never mind Iran v Iraq! More ppl voted for IRaq ! LOL

forum has become gay worthless! Its not informing any mroe rather than idiodic people voting bs!

The following message is not only directed toward the above poster, but to all the members who believe that this forum is in decline:
I have a simple solution that will not only rid you the burden of posting in this forum, but create a better atmosphere for those of us who are tired of your petty complaints: Leave the bloody forum. It's that simple, folks. It is not as if you are being forced to post.



"We will write our own military manuals, which the Americans, British, and French can study in their staff colleges."
-Colonel Behrouz Soleimani, Deputy Commander, Iranian 21st Infantry Division

"If the invaders reach Iran, the country will turn into a burning hell for them."
-Mohammad Khatami

"The baseless claim made us laugh. We do not use laptops to keep our classified documents.”
-Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi, on American claims that an Iranian laptop they had captured contained evidence that Iran was producing a nuclear warhead

if Sadam have waited for another year, he might even take over Tehran. Coz Ayatullah whom initiated the peace deal, knows his time was comming. There for he saved Iran with a peace deal that was imposible before that.

The truth is that western was giving more arms to Iraq than what Iran can obtain from the black market. So, the winnier is United State Off America coz they manged to put many mulsim in hell.

Question: If a Muslim kill another Muslim, rasulullah s.a.w did said that both or one off them sure go to hell.

Was there a fatwa on both side for the war?

Most of the war was fought on iraqi land.. And you think Saddam suddenly could eventually get his hands on Tehran? In what kind of imaginary land do you live? Saddam was incredible desperate, see the use of chemical warfare.. that is an act of a complete desperate loser and not someone who is going to take over Tehran.

The war was a stalemate. Iraq wanted to occupy Iranian territory, but invariably withdrew as soon as they realized the size of the Iranian army opposing them. The initial Iranian objective was self-defense, but the Ayatollah Khomeni eventually reasoned that the Islamic Revolution should be spread to Iraq. He then invaded Iraq for that purpose, and failed. Both sides failed, so it can be nothing more than a stalemate. Iraqi forces would have easily succeeded in their mission had Saddam allowed his general to control the armed forces, instead of using his non-existant "genius." He definitely was no Nebuchadnezzar.


La Repubblica Ragusana - La quinta repubblica marittrima!
Italia triumphs again!


"Now I'll show you how an Italian dies!" - Fabrizio Quattrocchi

"Iraqi forces would have easily succeeded in their mission had Saddam allowed his general to control the armed forces, instead of using his non-existant "genius." He definitely was no Nebuchadnezzar."

That reminds of me of the now famous press conference during the Gulf War where General Norman Schwarzkopf mocked Saddam's abilities as a military commander.

“He is neither a strategist nor is he schooled in the operational arts, nor is he a tactician, nor is he a general. Other than that he's a great military man.”."

Classic.

That reminds of me of the now famous press conference during the Gulf War where General Norman Schwarzkopf mocked Saddam's abilities as a military commander.

“He is neither a strategist nor is he schooled in the operational arts, nor is he a tactician, nor is he a general. Other than that he's a great military man.”."

Classic.


And so totally accurate. I find it funny how Saddam even crowned himself King of a New Babylonian Empire. In my opinion, Iraq could easily have become a great power if Saddam wasn't such an idiot. They had the wealth, they had the military technology and the West's support. Saddam simply screwed it all up, especially after invading Kuwait. Iraq could have even rivalled Egypt as the leader of the Arab world. Who better to lead the Middle East than the origin of Middle Eastern civilization in the first place?



La Repubblica Ragusana - La quinta repubblica marittrima!
Italia triumphs again!


"Now I'll show you how an Italian dies!" - Fabrizio Quattrocchi

^^^^^^

Today's Iraq has as much in common with the original Mesopotamian civilizations as Turks do with the Byzantine Empire.

-----------------------------------------------
"No one gets outta here alive"
Jim Morrison

Issa all im trying to say is that people dont vote out of opions but rather jsut to screw the vote or make some one mad. Holocause was a fake and Iran Vs Iraq were examples.

It was a stalemate But in the end Iran was on the offensive even with the mass support from the Arab league and west to Iraq.

TO the Malaysian guy who said Iran was desperate and Iraq was going to get Tehran. So he will some how get all the way back on the offensive, Get air suppirority from the Tomcats and travel the mountain pass!

You know Iraq was desperate when they attack Oil tankers, refiner's, missle and scud and chemical strikes on hospitals, school, and residential area;s.

Very very well said Bobby