Dadrian , Vahakn N., "The History of the Armenian Genocide. Ethnic Conflict from the Balkans to Anatolia to the Caucasus". (Providence/Oxford: Berghahn Books, 1997/second revision)
This appendix traces the military staff of Germany attached to their ally Ottoman Turkey during WWI when most of the Armenian genocide occurred and what the position of this staff was during World War II while the Holocaust was ongoing in the German army of that period. This is a little known facet of history more people should probably know as it highlights how ignoring a crime far away might bring it to your door.
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals Himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."
For those without the relevant historical background. Kazim Karabekir was the second most powerful man in the Nationalist Movement known as Kemalists. In his memoirs his desire to destroy the Armenian nation was never hidden. Only the false and sloppy history the Turkish government tries to impose on the historical record denies such evidences.
"In his massive volume on the Turkish War of Independence, Karabekir reiterates again and again the theme that Armenia is both a threat and an obstacle for Turkey's paramount need to establish contiguous frontiers with Azerbaijan and other Turkic countries in the Caucasus. (Kafkaslarda ebediyen yerle§mek lazimdir). He berates Halil Kut, the Commander of Army Groups East at the time, for hindering his plan to capture Zankezour at the end of World War I and to establish the link with Azerbaijan. That goal could have been accomplished so very easily, he claims. "I had my headquarters in Nakhitchevan ... and the act of disallowing my plans for Zankezour was a political and military crime." Karabekir further believed that Nakhitchevan should be in Turkish hands, as an inseparable part of the bridge to the east.27 By the same token Karabekir described Nakhitchevan as "an entirely pure Turkish land" (kamilen oz Turk), and as a corridor to Azerbaijan.28 Evidently, Halil himself was trying to capture Zankezour in 1920 for which purpose he was seeking from Karabekir an auxiliary force of 2,000 men, but the latter felt that under the conditions then prevailing that job should be left to the Azeris, even though "I am not convinced at all that they [the Azeris] are capable of achieving any positive results."29 For his part Halil Kut in April 1920 informed Karabekir from his military command post in Karabagh that his "soldiers are intent on liquidating [temizledik-ten] the Armenians of Karabagh .... The people and soldiers here are eagerly awaiting the crossing of the borders by the Ottoman armies so as to achieve this goal in a short period of time."30 This attitude was entirely in line with the thinking of Karabekir who on April 28, 1920 told the commander of the 3rd division of his Army Corps that "the aim of all Turks is to unite with the Turkic brothers. History is affording us today the last opportunity. In order for the Islamic world not to be forever fragmented it is necessary that the campaign against Karabagh be not allowed to abate. As a matter of fact drive the point home in Azeri circles that that campaign should be pursued with greater terror and severity {daha azim ve §iddetle). Impress upon them the point also that the Armenians should be kept busy until such time when we are ready to launch our own campaign."31
The most dominant theme punctuating Karabekir's volume relative to his designs against Armenia is his pledge to destroy Armenia in fulfilment of what he considered to be a national imperative. Describing the continued existence of Armenia as "a curse for us" (beld),32 Karabekir in the May 1919 to August 1920 period at least 12 times vowed to destroy Armenia using such terms as "crush" (ezmek), "finish off' (bitirecegiz) "trample down" (cignememize), "ruination" (mahv) "expire under the heel of the Turk" (can vereceksiniz), "annihilate'' (imha)."33
27. Karabekir, Istiklal Harbimiz [n. 2], 31, 882; idem, Istiklal... Esaslari [n. 8], 27.
28. Karabekir, Istiklal Harbimiz [n. 2], 394, 609.
29. Ibid., 315.
30. Ibid., 608.
31. Ibid., 631.
32. Ibid., 671.
33. Ibid., 67, 287, 373, 713, 749, 783, 805 in the context of the general's discussions. In specific correspondence, the following instances may be cited. To the Ankara government on April 13, 1920, in which communication Karabekir declared that "we will have to trample down Armenia in order to revitalize Azerbaijan," pp. 584-85; his order of the day on April 18, 1920, p. 603; to the Ankara government on May 15, 1920, p. 684; to the Armenian regimental commander on May 30, 1920, p. 715 where he uses the term "wipe out for eternity" (ebediyen mahv); to his armed forces on August 4, 1920, p. 722
Dadrian , Vahakn N., "The History of the Armenian Genocide. Ethnic Conflict from the Balkans to Anatolia to the Caucasus". (Providence/Oxford: Berghahn Books, 1997/second revision) p. 366, 373.
The people of this province have a history throughout centuries of being simple living and capable people who are determined and effective warriors and fighters whenever they were called upon to fight and defend their territories, people (Bakhtiari Lurs) or general tribal wars with outsiders as well. They have gained such a reputation as being excellent if not the best, horsemen in Iran and amongst the best fighters when needed.
"Distinguishing Armenian Case from Holocaust"
"its a fact!!??"
Distinguishing Armenian Case from Holocaust
Statement of Professor Bernard Lewis
Princeton University
April 14, 2002
C-SPAN2
www.bookstv.org
Question: “The British press reported in 1997 that your views on the killing of one million Armenians by the Turks in 1915 did not amount to genocide and in this report in the Independent of London, says that a French court fined you one frank in damages after you said there was no genocide. This obviously triggered a debate in Israel where this quoted article (Moderator cuts in and asks him to ask his question as their running out of time). My question is, sir, have your views changed on this whether the killing of one million Armenians amounts to genocide and your views on this judgment?”
Bernard Lewis responds: “This is a question of definition and nowadays the word "genocide" is used very loosely even in cases where no bloodshed is involved at all and I can understand the annoyance of those who feel refused. But in this particular case, the point that was being made was that the massacre of the Armenians in the Ottoman Empire was the same as what happened to Jews in Nazi Germany and that is a downright falsehood. What happened to the Armenians was the result of a massive Armenian armed rebellion against the Turks, which began even before war broke out, and continued on a larger scale.
Great numbers of Armenians, including members of the armed forces deserted, crossed the frontier and joined the Russian forces invading Turkey. Armenian rebels actually seized the city of Van and held it for a while intending to hand it over to the invaders. There was guerilla warfare all over Anatolia. And it is what we nowadays call the National Movement of Armenians Against Turkey. The Turks certainly resorted to very ferocious methods in repelling it.
There is clear evidence of a decision by the Turkish Government, to deport the Armenian population from the sensitive areas. Which meant naturally the whole of Anatolia. Not including the Arab provinces which were then still part of the Ottoman Empire. There is no evidence of a decision to massacre. On the contrary, there is considerable evidence of attempt to prevent it, which were not very successful. Yes there were tremendous massacres, the numbers are very uncertain but a million nay may well be likely.
The massacres were carried out by irregulars, by local villagers responding to what had been done to them and in number of other ways. But to make this, a parallel with the holocaust in Germany, you would have to assume the Jews of Germany had been engaged in an armed rebellion against the German state, collaborating with the allies against Germany. That in the deportation order the cities of Hamburg and Berlin were exempted, persons in the employment of state were exempted, and the deportation only applied to the Jews of Germany proper, so that when they got to Poland they were welcomed and sheltered by the Polish Jews. This seems to mea rather absurd parallel.”
first when i read the title of thie thread i thought it was about the "genocide" the armenians commited in azerbajcan during the 1990's! and the "genocide" the armenians commited while fighting with the russians in 1915 in eastern turkey especially in the area of van.
global warming is not man made its natural the romans grew things in scotland which hot climate was needed yet scotland is freezing these days it clearly wasnt in the year 200ad its all natural man has hardly a 1% effect and no you get over it your just doing it to bash turks not like you really give a **** be honest its a political weapon nothing else
Global warming also means COLDER weather in some places. Get your facts straight before debunking anything!
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"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals Himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."
