I have gotten into the T & G biz from the back end, and am glad not to try to make a living at it. Despite spending over $73K on equipment for it, it is not used for that specific purpose.

The carpet cleaning guys, as was pointed out below, are going to screw up t&g 10 times faster than they messed up carpet cleaning, making it completely unprofitable.

But I am not here to complain. No, I am suggesting that the people here (notice with Betty and Josi, I take the PC position!) broaden your skills to John Jackson type level, and get into stone restoration.

You then become, not the opposition, but rather the referral that these guys use when they either
1- screw up a job or
2- realize that simple t&g is not the answer for their clients.

If you don't then you will find yourself competing with pricing levels that frankly make no fiscal or business sense.

As always, you need to find a niche, like John Rupich has, or I have, or Dave Gelinas. But unless you are in an isolated area and can be "the" t&g person in your area, be prepared to see your prices and profits go into the dumper.

As my dearly departed friend Maury used to have on his racquetball shirt - "Everyone is entitled to MY opinion!"

WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!!!

James

Put what you learn into immediate action and gain the

"first mover advantage."

In today's marketplace it's no longer the big that eat the small.

It's the fast that eat the slow!

It is true, that low ballers and hacks can certainly cause a bad effect on an industry.

Stone is a nice area to be in, it's a bit harder to be a hack in an area that requires skill. Stone is something that I will be learning more about as time goes on.

I suppose I'll just put that much more effort into marketing and networking and hold a pricing structure that works for me and the client.

You are a bright young man, who seems to have a good grasp on things, so I defer to your judgement. John, you have become a rousing success. Hats off to you.

However, you two are more an exception than the rule. John, your intelligent moves started when you went to a multi truck operation in carpet cleaning. Instead of buying a job, you set out to make a company. Your forward thinking branched you out and now look at your success in such a brief period.

Chris, my guess is that you are going to be highly successful as well. You delve deeply into things, explore and consider options. All these will bode well for your future.

The people I was referring to are NOT like the above. These are the guys who "buy a job", by going into the carpet cleaning business, and then, just because they can, get into tile and grout cleaning. Not because they have a burning desire, or are particularly skilled, but just because they can. They are, in general, not particularly smart business people, in that they look at their business from the short term, rather than viewing it as a journey, growing upward and outward.

They price their labor without thought as to what they are truly worth. And they price it so that they CAN'T get off the a$$ end of the machine, because they have not worked into their price the costs of an office, secretary, sales man, supervisor, etc. So when they need to figure out how to grow, they can't possibly do so without a huge sacrifice in their income.

And, to boot, they bring the perception of their craft with them. I don't know about others, but without meeting John Jackson, I have a very high opinion of him and his work. I know Karen Church, and she epitomizes the spirit of entrepreneurial spunk, taking a house cleaning business and turning into a high end, truly professional restoration firm.

These people, IMHO, are the examples that the newbies should try to emulate, and learn from their experience, which they gracefully share with all of us.

I apologize to any I may have offended unjustly. I am not lumping all in a bucket of sin. I am just pointing out that simply having a piece of equipment does not make you a master of a skill. And that pricing of one thing (carpet), does not translate, sq. ft. for sq. ft., with hard surface work. Or at least shouldn't.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

Cheers,

Al

Amen AL
The way I look at things, your thinking is your production and when you use your own thinking you are doing the best you can do. The trick is to use the thinking of others in your trade, who are successful, that’s why I enjoy this site. The problem is when we go to a person whose deck of cards are greater than our deck, we ask for help, we hear but we don’t listen and start going back to our own thinking. (My Problem) Most of the time we listen to people who have less than us, its easier, less effort but we grow to that person level.

The cleaner, tile & grout, carpets or stone can not think like a cleaner. But think like a successful business man or woman, even when he or she is not. Time must be set for sales meetings, set goals, hold new customers for years to come and more. Yes Al Amen, I don’t want a job but it is easier said than done but we can not give up. Some one told me change your attitude and you will change Al titude. LOL

Al or Dave let me utilize your thinking, to get involved in stone cleaning, what school or courses do you recommend?

Have a great day
Ray
Clean Impression
South FL

I am pasting a page from Fred Hueston's NTC site. I am editing out stuff that does not apply to restorers. I strongly recommend the
1-
How to Polish & Restore Marble Vanity & Furniture Tops(DVD) $49.95 plus $10.00 S/H
and 2- How to Polish and Restore Marble Floors. DVD

I can't recommend the polishing of concrete ONLY because I have not purchased it. I plan to rectify that, even though we have done enough of it to try to stay away from it! Among others, we did one house in Malibu, small bath room, and we looked like Frosty The Snowman every time we stepped out of the room. We had a LOT of concrete to grind down. What a mess! But I digress.

I took these courses, LIVE from Fred, in the 1980's, and when we crossed paths recently, I asked if I should buy these for my guys. He suggested that with their level of experience, it was not necessary (honest guy, that Fred).

To put it into perspective, I took the 3 day hands-on course in walls and counters and 5 days, again hands-on, on floors. So don't think watching a few minutes is going to make you a pro. Yes, there were others in the class, and the business was in its infancy, but the knowledge has not changed (which is why he suggested I NOT buy it). We rode the Achille machine, which is a b_ll buster, literally AND figuratively, learning to grind and polish granite floors while riding this crazy machine! Quite an experience.

One of Fred's greatest strengths is what REALLY annoys me - he refuses to endorse products. Therefore, when we used various manufacturers diamonds, he would not say one was better than the other. Only that we had all of them to try and we could make our own decisions. Fred is that way still, and though it bugs me that he doesn't shortcut the way thru the maze of products, his only interest is in education (my background). So, you get a balanced look at what is out there.

What I think is interesting and perhaps a little scary, is that there is not a great deal of expense to get into the stone restoration business. But there is a real sense of adventure, as no two stones are exactly the same. There is a lot of experimentation, and not every job comes out to everyones satisfaction. Matter of fact, any person who isn't a liar, and has done stone restoration for some time, will tell you of horror stories of not getting paid on jobs that they did their best on, but were stymied by the situation. It is NOT carpet cleaning, where you can check out the manual from a manufacturer and follow their recommendations to remove a ____ stain.

With stone being millions of years old or more, it is hard to ask the original manufacturer those questions!

I have been suggesting this inexpensive way of checking out this business to see if it is for you and to see that this is really WORK, not pencil pushing (my specialty these days!).

Fred has classes mostly in North Carolina (his home since he moved from the Orlando area), but when you check out his web site, you can see the different things he offers. Nice guy, good sense of humor and doesn't take himself too seriously.

___________________________________________________________

Videos

Removing Scratches and Polishing Engineered(Quartz) Stone(DVD) $69.95 plus $10.00 S/H
This video will show you step by step how easy it is to polish granitetops to an original shine.

* Polishing tips to match original factory polish
* Removing metal marks
* Shortcuts & trade secrets
* Abrasives needed for this type of stone

How to Polish & Restore Marble Vanity & Furniture Tops(DVD) $49.95 plus $10.00 S/H
This video will show you step by step how easy it is to restore marble tops to an original shine.

* Protect and keep it looking new
* Easy to follow instructions
* Shortcuts & trade secrets
* Reference manual & troubleshooting guide


How to Polish and Restore Marble Floors. DVD

*How to protect walls

*Removing Lippage

*Honing in only three steps

*Polishing and maintenance
$69.95 plus $10.00 S/H


NEW How To Polish Concrete Flooring. DVD or VHS

This new video will show you what is needed to polish and restore both new
and old concrete floors. The following is covered in this informative video:

-What equipment will you need
-Abrasives used for restoration and polishing
-The process from start to finish
-How to reduce dust
-Wet vs dry grinding
-FAQ information sheet

Much, much more.
$69.95 plus $10.00 S/H
How To Measure and Template Stone Counter Tops DVD

To properly fabricate any countertop it is best to make a template. If the template fits, so will the countertop. This video is designed to show you how to construct a simple template for stone, engineered stone, solid surface or any other countertop type. From basic template construction to an introduction to the latest in electronic templating. Length: 84 minutes
$99.95 plus $10.00 S/H
How to Rod and Repair Stone Counter Tops video. (VHS or DVD)

Many of of our students have asked for a video on the proper technique for rodding stone as well as how to fill, color match and repair cracks and spalls on granite and other stone surfaces. We have put together a great video to show how to do this.

This video shows you why rodding is important and most importantly when you need to rod. The entire procedure is shown from cutting the rodding groove to the types of rod to use, the type of adhesive and the placement of the rod.

Next, we show you how to repair a granite counter top that had broken off. We show you how to glue it together and then how to make the chips, crack and holes disappear. We show you how to properly color match, use polyesters and epoxies and how to grind and make the repair perfectly flush with the surface.
$69.95 plus $10.00 S/H
How to Rod and Repair Stone Counter Tops .(DVD or VHS)

This is the same video as mentioned above but on two CD Roms in MPEG format. You can view it on your computer and in some DVD players.
$69.95 plus $10.00 S/H

The Way I Do It- by Arrons Marble-

The information contained within this 45 minute Video or DVD will show you how Aaron fabricates and installs natural stone countertops. The trade secrets revealed in this documentary will show the average tradesman, who has a working knowledge of common hand tools, how to fabricate and install a granite (or other stone) countertop. Subjects covered in this product include the following:
Loading Slab at the Quarry
Dividing Slab into Sections
Overview of Power Tools
Cutting on the Truck
Use of Specific Trade Tools
Unloading Cut Slab
Grinding Edges (Bevel & Bullnose)
Polishing
Installation
Cut Outs for Sinks & Stovetops
Drilling Holes for Plumbing
Finished Product

Editorial from Fred Hueston, This video is really great if your looking to get into the stone fabrication business for under a $2000.00 investment in tools. It is obvious that Arron has put a lot of time learning these techniques. I highly recommend it. This is also a great video for the Do It Yourself Handyman.

This video shows some very basic techniques and it not intended to show you how a normal fabrication shop does this work. This video is ideal for someone who does stone fabrication as a hobby or doesnt do it as a full time job.


Cost $169.00 plus $3.50 S/H
$169.95 plus $10.10 S/H

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