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How much ethanol is in your gas?

February 28 2009 at 10:27 AM
ethanol hater  (no login)

Do you now that stations are to post if it is over 1%?

Try asking the store if you are interested; see how many know.

Why is it important? You are losing mileage by the increased ethanol. Ethanol is a farce. It costs more enrgy to produce than it offsets in fossil fuel.

If you are paying the same price for gas with ethanol as that with less than 1 % then you are s paying for lots of water that is damaging your engine.

Check it out.

http://www.fuel-testers.com/ethanol_engine_precautions.html


 
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AuthorReply
Anonymous
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Re: How much ethanol is in your gas?

February 28 2009, 10:42 AM 



Most auto and marine engine manufacturers have issued ethanol warnings this year, which state that using over 10% ethanol fuel will damage your engine and invalidate your warranty.


View more resources to learn the facts and warnings on ethanol fuel blends.




"If you are going to believe, know why you believe and back it up with something

 
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Anonymous
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Ethanol isn't water.

February 28 2009, 11:15 AM 

.

 
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Anonymous
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Nobody said it was but...

February 28 2009, 2:44 PM 

ethanol readily attracts and absorbs water & moisture into the fuel.

Ethanol also has dramatically changed the shelf life of fuel - Fuel that did not contain ethanol had a shelf life of several years; Unlike ethanol-blend fuels which remain stable for a maximum of 90-100 days.

Test results on ethanol blend fuel shelf life were performed under ideal conditions (70 % humidity, properly sealed fuel system, lack of presence of rain/snow, etc.) - Therefore it is safe to assume that the shelf life and stability of fuels containing ethanol is much shorter than 90-100 days.

Engine Damage & Performance Issues
Due to Use of E10 Ethanol-Blends of Gasoline
- View List Below-


Without necessary precautions and careful monitoring, ethanol alcohol blends of fuel now being widely distributed at public gas pumps may cause unnecessary and unexpected damage to your gas-powered engines.


In newer engines E10 oxygenated gasoline can be safely used with only minimal inconvenience, such as decrease in mpg and fuel efficiency. However, many other types of engines are not designed to resist the damaging effects of ethanol (ethyl alcohol) fuel.


All gas-powered engines can be adversely affected by alcohol-blends of fuel including automobiles, classic cars, trucks, recreational vehicles, marine engines, motorcycles, lawn equipment, etc.


Often the motor damage results from avoidable and unnecessary causes;
For example:
- Lack of proper E10 sticker labeling at gas pumps, - View state-by-state labeling laws -
- Improper blending resulting in E10 gas being sold over the legal limit of 10 percent. - View Alcohol Gas Test Kit -
- Use of E10 in engines not designed or resistant to alcohol. (Check your owner's manual).


E10 is now being dispensed everywhere in the U.S. due to federal renewable fuel laws and mandates (quotas). Unfortunately, several states still refuse to inform consumers when gas dispensed is oxygenated with alcohol.


Until renewable fuel standards (RFS) become more consumer-friendly, with the state and federal laws requiring more careful monitoring at the gas stations and fuel distributors, we encourage your to test fuel for alcohol (link fueltest kit) and familiarize yourself with possible damage and problems that can result from the use of ethanol blends of fuel.


Note: The list below does not include all documented damage attributed to E10 gasoline use. We have chosen to include only the most common damage/problems, based on verifiable reports and resources.


E10 Parts Damage:
Examples of reported damage, determined to be caused by E10 fuel.


1. Wear and damage of internal engine parts.
2. Damage to metal, rubber, and plastic parts of fuel system.
3. Corrosion of metal parts in fuel system and engine.
4. Deterioration of elastomers and plastic parts.
5. Deterioration of non-metallic materials.
6. Fuel permeation through flexible fuel lines.
7. Drying, softening, stretching and/or cracking of rubber hoses, seals and other rubber components.
8. Oxygen sensor damage.
9. Damage or premature disintegration of fuel pump.
10. Carburetor damage, including clogging.
11. Dirty and clogged fuel filters.
12. Clogging and plugging of fuel injectors.
13. Destruction of certain fiberglass fuel tanks.
14. Removal or fading of paint and varnish (both internal and external parts of engine).
15. Piston/bore failure through knock/pre-ignition.
16. Piston ring sticking.
17. Unsuitable ignition timing resulting in ignition failure.
18. Gumming-up of fuel injectors, carburetors, etc. due to release of accumulated deposits in engine from ethanol alcohol's solvent properties.


E10 Drivability Issues:


1. Engine performance problems.
2. Hard starting and operating difficulty.
3. Hesitation and lack of acceleration.
4. Stalling, especially at low speeds.


Ethanol Gasoline - General Problems/Issues:


1. Phase separation (P/S) of gasoline.
2. Water contamination (W/C) of gasoline.
3. Attract, absorb and hold moisture in fuel tank.
4. Increased occurrence of lean, water-diluted fuel.
5. Vapor lock or fuel starvation.
6. Drop in octane (after water absorption, P/S and W/C occurs).
7. Decreased fuel efficiency and mpg.
8. Decreased life cycle of parts and engine.
9. Decreased shelf life of gasoline.

E10 gasoline usually lowers MPG by about 2 to 7 %.
Many consumers and studies reveal E10 gas can decrease MPG up to 20%!


E10 gas will drive fewer miles.


The EPA and ACE (ethanol.org) report a 2 to 3 % reduction in mpg for most cars.


A 2 to 3 % reduction in fuel economy =
1 mile/gallon fuel economy reduction in a car that averages 27 mpg.
A 4 to 6 % reduction in fuel economy =
2 miles/gallon fuel economy reduction in a car that averages 27 mpg.


 
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Anonymous
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Ethanol and E10 gas: problems and solutions

February 28 2009, 3:05 PM 

http://megayachtnews.com/Archives/July-2007/1749.html

Most mariners know that excess fuel emissions are dangerous to the long-term health of the planet. Recently, however, MTBE, the additive used to reduce emissions, was found to cause water pollution. As a result, MTBE is gradually being eliminated across the United States.

Taking its place is ethanol, a grain alcohol blended with conventional gasoline in a mixture of 10 percent ethanol to 90 percent gasoline, hence the term E10. Normally, the story would end here, with the problem solved.

Unfortunately, ethanol raises several serious problems that range from phase separation (ethanol bonds to water and the mixture falls to the bottom of the tank as a separate layer where it can find its way into the engine) to the sudden release of sludge build-up (which results in clogged filters and injectors). The situation is exacerbated by boats that sit idle, such as the third tender that gets minimal use or the onboard fuel storage tank that refills the tenders and water toys.

"Most boat owners are expecting problems," said David Brown, owner of Thompson Marine in Egg Harbor Township, N.J. "I dont think anybody really knows anything firm yet, and thats kind of the issue. Were not sure what to expect. We had a problem long ago, in the late 70s and early 80s when they tried ethanol before, with fuel lines and rubber hoses breaking down, so theres some concern we could see the same thing this time. Theres also an issue with the ethanol mixing with water and fouling up the engine."

Unlike previous incarnations of ethanol fuels, E10 fuel does not. While pure ethanol can indeed ruin rubber hoses, the 10 percent ethanol that is in E10 gas is a safe amount where hoses are concerned. As far as the tanks go, however, a certain type of fiberglass is vulnerable. How do you know if you have such a tank? Most people will probably already now. The majority of these tanks are on luxury vessels built in the 1960s, 70s and 80s, when these fiberglass tanks were considered the best material available. Boats built after the 1980s dont usually have a problem because the fiberglass resin was changed.

The overall news is good, that with intelligent fuel management, boat owners and crew can make E10 fuel work well despite its shortcomings. The availability of E10 fuel is growing along the U.S. East Coast, particularly in the central Atlantic states or points north.


The problems

The major downside to E10 gas is that the alcohol content attracts moisture. The alcohol attracts and joins with the moisture in the air to create larger amounts of water in the fuel tank than had occurred with MTBE blends.

Water in E10 fuel is a concern as far away as Hawaii, which became an E10 state on April 2. Gas station and marina owners across the state had to make sure that fuel storage tanks didnt have any water in them, install new ethanol-ready filters at the pumps and make sure the tanks are clean, said Maria Tome, an engineer with the state Department of Business, Economic Development and Tourism.

"A lot of older tanks were replaced recently, so most stations were ready," she said.

Still, gas-powered yacht owners are skeptical.

"Im not going to put it in the water as much this year," said Greg Masson of Maui, who owns a 40-foot Sea Ray. "I dont know what kind of damage the E10 fuel might do, so Im playing it safe until I see what happens to other yachts."

Water is heavier than gas so, along with the ethanol, it sinks to the bottom of the tank where a boats fuel pickup line is often located. Without an inline water-fuel separator, the water will go directly into the injectors or carburetor and can cause serious engine problems, including possible engine shutdown.

"Ethanol has become a huge, huge issue," said Robyn Ellis, owner of Ellis Marine in Leominster, Mass. "Weve had to service a lot of engines this year because of fuel separations."

In the case of a long-neglected tank, even a water-fuel separator may not be enough to deal with the accumulated water volume. Water buildup in the tank, in turn, drags down some of the blended alcohol with it.

This alcohol forms a portion of the overall gasoline octane rating. When octane is tinkered with, the consequences are a lowered octane rating and further reduced performance, rough running, and the potential for engine shutdown. (Automobiles fueling up with E10 dont notice this problem because most vehicles use the gasoline in their tanks every few days or every week.)

Alcohol is a natural solvent for the sludge, tars and other sediment found in marine tanks. While cleaning out the tank is normally good, it is not if the residue is released to the fuel pump. Usually, the fuel filter will trap the particles, but in some instances, the sludge has caused the gas to congeal into a gel, quickly clogging filters.

"Also, because of its solvent characteristics, ethanol can act as a quick cleaning agent, sweeping out any accumulated sludge in fuel tanks all at once," said Terry McBarnet, vice president of Maui Oil Co., a Chevron distributor. "So drivers (and fuel station and marina fuel dock owners) may have filters gucking up at first. So keep keeping a good eye on your fuel filters, especially if you have an older boat."


The solutions

Perhaps the easiest solution is adding a new additive to the fuel tank. Boaters have used alcohol-based or "dry gas" treatments successfully in the past to deal with water in the tank. But that was when gasoline was gasoline, not a mixture with ethanol.

Another solution is emulsifiers, but they disperse large particles of water throughout the gasoline, which can cause carbon buildup, poor engine performance and the formation of gum and varnish deposits. Additionally, emulsifiers require "violent shaking," something not easily achieved with a 25-foot center console fishing tender. One manufacturer recommends putting an air hose in the tank to agitate the mixture.

In the 1970s, General Motors and others did extensive experiments with emulsifiers to make cars more fuel efficient. In addition to severe performance problems, some of the worst effects were that the gas/water emulsifications ate the plating off internal components of fuel pumps and the carbon buildup was so bad engines had to be rebuilt every 20 hours. The vehicles were not driveable and tests were stopped. No oil company recommends emulsifiers; Chevron actually recommends de-emulsifiers.

Star Tron is a fuel additive that uses enzyme technology to prevent phase separation by de-ionizing the fuel, which means it neutralizes the electrical charges between water molecules. It is manufactured by Starbrite, a manufacturer of marine and automotive maintenance items, from anti-freeze and motor oil to brushes and polishes.

The de-ionization process prevents water molecules from forming into drops that then settle to the bottom of the tank and take the ethanol octane down with it. The octane rating is left in tact and the suspended water molecules can be burned right along with the gasoline portion of E10. It will also stabilize gas, allowing it to be stored for up to one year. Diesel fuel can be stabilized for up to two years.

When choosing a fuel additive, it is important to note that every fuel additive must be registered with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. StarTron is registered. Others, such as EZorb are not. For a complete listing, visit www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/additive/web-gas.htm


Switching to E10

Switching to E10 fuel for the first time will be of particular importance to yacht crews who would not normally empty the gasoline tank that fills the tenders before refilling it. The U.S. Coast Guard Chief of Auxiliary Surface Operations recommends that all vessel owners from superyachts to bowriders with gasoline tanks onboard wait to refuel with E10 until their tanks are nearly empty.

"Mixing these two types of fuel can cause the creation of a gel-like substance that can damage your engine and clog fuel filters," it says. "When making the switch to E10 stick to one supplier for your fuel. Some distributors have already made the switch and are selling the new E10 blend while others are still trying to sell off the MTBE fuel that they have left in their storage tanks. If your normal supplier has made the switch to E10 and you buy fuel from another vendor that hasnt switched over, you may find yourself with a tank full of mixed fuel."




 
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Anonymous
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How will gasoline with ethanol perform in my car?

February 28 2009, 3:31 PM 

http://www.arco.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=16002950&contentId=7023062

Ethanol-blended ARCO gasoline should perform in engines similar to the way our previous gasoline did. With any oxygenated gasoline, there will likely be a slight reduction in performed fuel economy by approximately two to four percent.

 
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Anonymous
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What about using ethanol-blended gasoline in smaller engines, motorcycles, snowmobiles and

February 28 2009, 3:34 PM 

"You should consult your owner's manual and/or the engine manufacturer. If the owner's manual prohibits the use of ethanol blends, consult with the manufacturer for the latest information." - Per BP and ARCO

Truth is there are a number of law suits against major oil companies for the corrosive effects on small engines that are failing during warranty.

 
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Anonymous
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What about using ethanol-blended gasoline in smaller engines, motorcycles, snowmobiles and

February 28 2009, 3:34 PM 

"You should consult your owner's manual and/or the engine manufacturer. If the owner's manual prohibits the use of ethanol blends, consult with the manufacturer for the latest information." - Per BP and ARCO

Truth is there are a number of law suits against major oil companies for the corrosive effects on small engines that are failing during warranty.

 
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anon
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Re: What about using ethanol-blended gasoline in smaller engines, motorcycles, snowmobiles and

March 3 2009, 9:25 PM 

I used Jet Pep in my lawnmower and it clogged up the mower so much that it wouldn't work.

 
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Anonymous
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I always use Jet Pep in mine...

March 3 2009, 10:26 PM 

and it's always worked great.

 
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Anonymous
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Does anybody on here

March 3 2009, 10:27 PM 

know which stations do not have ethanol in their gas?

 
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Anonymous
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Re: Does anybody on here

March 4 2009, 12:55 PM 

I believe the PURE stations don't have ethanol in their gas.

 
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Anonymous
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Thanks

March 4 2009, 7:38 PM 

I thought the BP at Dodge City was ethanol free.

However, today when I stopped in after asking a few days ago. I notice they now have the "contains ethanol" label on the pumps.

I guess i will have to start buying a stabilizer for for all my small engines gas cans.

 
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Anonymous
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BP and Chevron Have ethanol

March 7 2009, 4:44 PM 

in their gas around Cullman. Don't know if it is nation wide.

 
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Anonymous
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Costco in Bham and Huntsville has ethanol

March 7 2009, 4:44 PM 

in their gas.

 
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Anonymous
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Pure south of Cullman?

March 7 2009, 4:45 PM 

Does anyone know if they are still ethanol free?

 
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Anonymous
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Re: Pure south of Cullman?

March 7 2009, 8:42 PM 

I was just there today and saw a sticker on the pump that read no alcohol.

 
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Anonymous
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IT IS A FEDERAL LAW THAT ALL GAS HAS TO HAVE ETHANOL

March 27 2009, 10:04 PM 


 
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Anonymous
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Link for proof?

March 28 2009, 1:09 AM 

Where is it?

 
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Anonymous
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Re: IT IS A FEDERAL LAW THAT ALL GAS HAS TO HAVE ETHANOL

March 28 2009, 8:49 AM 

This link says Alabama has no law at this time mandating ethanol in gasoline.

http://www.e0pc.com/AL.php

 
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Anonymous
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Alabama has no law mandating

March 29 2009, 8:12 AM 

E10, but is does have a law stating that the pumps must be labeled if more than 1% ethanol is in the gas.

If you read the link in the post above, it is clear that the Federal Government has created the incentive to distributors to blend their own gas. Major gas companies have mandated requirements to supply quotas of suboctanes for blending to their customers (distributors).

It is clear in Alabama that the majority of gasoline stations are using E10 (or what ever percentage they can get away with).

I suppose our only option is to purchase additives that will keep the ethanol from separating. I am sure the additives will be like playing Russian roulette with your small engines.

 
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Anonymous
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FYI

March 31 2009, 4:49 PM 

I believe all of the Conoco and Pure stations in Cullman are alcohol free.

 
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Gas Man
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Re: FYI

July 20 2009, 9:49 PM 

all the Conoco and Pure stations are, as well as a few offbeat brands.

 
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Anonymous
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Conoco?

July 22 2009, 7:32 AM 

Where are the Conoco stations in cullman county?

 
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Gas Buddy
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Re: Conoco?

July 22 2009, 1:57 PM 

Exit 291 (commonly known as 292), Dodge City, and Hwy 157 at the interstate.

 
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ethanol opponent
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More facts about ethanol..carcinogen!!!!

April 5 2009, 8:20 AM 

Top Ten Facts about Ethanol

1. Ethanol is listed as a known human carcinogen by the International Agency for Research on Cancer.

2. The cost of Reformulated Gasoline with ethanol will increase 3-6 cents per gallons compared to RFG with MTBE.

3. Spills of pure ethanol or gasoline containing ethanol from leaking storage tanks can create a benzene plume up to 150% larger than a spill from a non-ethanol fuel.

4. Ethanol cannot be shipped by pipeline because of its high affinity for water posing significant distribution costs and hurdles for gasoline blenders.

5. According to a study by Cornell University, for every gallon of ethanol produced, 1.4 gallons of energy is consumed in the process, compared to 0.15 gallons used in the manufacture of gasoline.

6. It takes 1.5 gallons of ethanol (E-85) to drive as many miles as one gallon of gasoline.

7. Every gallon of ethanol removes 53 cents from the Federal Highway Trust Fund because of a special tax break for producers.

8. Ethanol increases the vapor pressure of gasoline by 1 psi. resulting in higher evaporative emissions of Volatile Organic Compounds, while tailpipe emissions of Acetaldehyde increase 150%.

9. Ethanol permeates the hoses and lines of automobile fuel systems resulting in a 50% increase in VOC emissions for pre 1995 cars.

10. Ethanol dissolves oxide scale from the walls of pipes and tanks, subjecting the systems to internal corrosion, which leads to leaks.


http://www.calgasoline.com/facttopten.htm


 
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Anonymous
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think you can get cancer from pumping gas with ethanol in it?

April 7 2009, 10:48 AM 

?

 
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Anonymous
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No,

April 7 2009, 11:06 AM 

the gas itself is worse, more than likely.

 
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Anonymous
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The main point here is

April 7 2009, 8:33 PM 

ethanol is not the "Godsend" many would have you believe. Utilizing ethanol is less likely to help the environment than it is is promoted to do so.

Just get educated on the pros and cons.

 
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