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A magyar ember -The hungarian man

February 7 2006 at 4:16 PM
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Saint-Germain  (Login Saint-Germain)

 
This is a partial translation of A magyar ember (A magyarság embertanáról) (The hungarian man ) by Kiszely István.
http://istvandr.kiszely.hu/ostortenet/016.html

The original post can be found at:
http://forum.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=7731

The Hungarian people have 3 points of origin: 1. The people prior to the 894-895 AD conquering Magyar tribes such as Scythians, Sarmatians, Huns and Avars. 2. The main component the honfoglalás Magyars who numbered 500,000 enlarged by turkic people . 3. The Jász, Pechenegs,Kumans, turkic Bulgars, Saxons, Slovaks, Swabians, Serbians.

..In Hungary the first authentic graves of 895-1000 AD Magyars were found...




(An artist's reconstruction and skull of a Honfoglalás Magyar man)

..In 1834 in Kecskemét 700 "authentic" Sarmatian skeletons were unearthed...


..The Honfoglalás Magyar men were on average 1.69m tall, the women were 1.58m. The average age of mortality for adults was 34 years. 60% of the skeletons were found to be under 16 years old..

The Hungarians are noted for the unique phenomenon of "Eastern vitalization" because the Hungarians are partly of the Kuman,turkic Bulgar, Jász, Pecheneg origin and this eastern people supplied a population surge. The Hungarians' representitive subracial types of the Honfoglalás past and even today are the following:

1. Turáni or turanid type. (Men 165-167 cm, women small & a little squattish. The broad cheek, the zygomatics protruding, the nose bridge flat, the eye socket small, the eyes a little wide spaced with a slanted look, the eyes blackish. Of the young children occurs "mongoloid fold." The mouth is small, the head is brachycephalic. The occiput weakly raised. Hair strands are thick, coarse, flat and hair is full. The hair is blackish-dark brown in color. The type is aboriginal to Eastern Turkistan (The heart of Asia). The type belongs to the West of the Carpathian Basin (North and South) not from elsewhere. Anthropologist Lajos Bartucz determined the occurance place of the later Magyar version of this type, the Alföldi (Homo pannonicus) is called the "Turkic Hungarian type." The occurance of this type nationally is 30-35%. Anthropologist Lajos Bartucz wrote: "the Alföldi type you can say most correctly is the "Magyar type", since its frequency is the most numerous and is exactly the same type going back to the Honfoglalás."



Turanid type Hungarian girl



Hungarian woman belonging to the Alföldi type

2. Pamiri (pamiro-ferghana, Central Asian, a fluid type or Anatolian) type found in Pamir country, Tien-san, the Altai, Central Asia together with the Iranic lands. The racial type belongs to Kazakh inner-Asiatic and among the population of Carpathian Basin the origin is with Huns, Avars and partially with Árpád's Magyars. The Hungarians of the Alföld (Plains) are typically of this type, so-called "scraggy-faced peasants." Of the Carpathian Basin residents 10-15% are towards this type. The stature is larger than the previous type, the men are 170cm and over. The build is usually thin and lanky, the head relatively small. The occiput is usually flat, the face long, the nose projects considerably from the face as a rule is straight. The zygomatics are robustly built, the complexion color is dark. The hair is greasy, rough to the touch, individual strands are thin and abundant.

3. Taurid ("Caucausian") type originates partially from the Turk, partially the Scythian, Samartian- and Jász people; the Magyars and Huns from then on the Avar royals and via the early Honfoglalás Magyars 5-8% frequency is found, but among the Lesser Kumanians and around the Baja area 14% is present. The type is originated from Near Asia, the Caucasus, the old Mesopotamia and Persia, also the Iranic world. The porportions of the body are medium, the men's average height is 160-166 cm, but also substantially taller. The head is bracycephalic and large, the forehead of middle width, the occiput small and to a degree flat, the face of medium length, the zyomatics laterally a little protruding, downwards narrower, the nose is of medim thickness, large, convex and projects from the face strongly. The nasal root and nose bridge of medium width, the nasal tip is mostly curved, the eyes are small relatively, the large sized ears frequently protruding. The eye and hair color is dark brown - black, the skin swarthy brown, the hair strands are coarse, straight, notched, or a little crispy, the bodyhair strongly developed, the beard and the eyebrows abundant.

4. East Baltic or East European type is thereof Eastern European aboriginal origin, which the old Magyars, the Hungarians, then the Bulgars, the Kumanians and the Jász also brought. While it is not typical of the ancient Hungarians, the Ledvedian and legendary home territory the people of the folks, it originated by either through truly mixing or was original to the Magyar folk. Gyula Benczur portrayed the type "of the Magyars" and said these professionally inaccurate cliches: "neither blond, nor brown, the pale, dull-skinned Hungarian racial type." For that reason the "blunt" East-Baltic element was strongly mixed from the East. The build is squattish ("compact"), the men's average height historically was 163-165 cm, though often taller. The head of medium length, the face of medium width, oily but not homely laterally protruding zygomatics. The eyes on the face look small, but the eyesockets are comparatively in the large range. The skin complexion is transparent; the eyes greyish-blue ("water-colored"), the hair ash-blond,among children white-blond, the hair is notched stiff, coarse strands. The face in old age becomes wrinkled. Occurances of 8-10% are defined, but in Palócföld due to the Slavs' apparent mixture with them they have attained the 35% frequency. The East Baltic is a specific type or a variation of the Pontic type.



An East Baltic type Hungarian girl



5. Uralic or Ugor type representative of the Finno-Ugrian people; the ancient origin is the area between the Ural and the Sayan mountians. As Hungarian primary sources occuring only of the 10th Century may substantiate, frequency anciently and now is 0,6%, which is endorsement that the Magyars likely via Finno-Ugrian culture formed territories, but ethnically not playing a part, and were formed by the native population; the search for the ancient Magyar homeland between the Finno-Ugrian folk is unscientific. Of the Hungarians there is a seldom frequency of "mongoloid" elements in attendance of the representative type.

The types above were "brought from the east" and the Carpathian Basin carries types found absolutely "throughout Europe": racially the cromagnonid, the Mediterranean, the Nordic, the Alpine, the Borreby, etc. types are all represented.


Pictures from the book of Kiszely István "A föld népei" (The people of Earth)Kiszely's Hungarian types,anthropologic pictures.

The original post by Gareth can be found at:
http://forum.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=37213


















Dr. Kiszely István,the author quoted above,is not just any scientist,he is a well known anthropologist in Hungary.

In 1971 he received the prestigious Rudolf Martin price in Oxford for his paper titled "The langobard man". He is the founder of International Society for Transoceanic Research,
Berkeley University. For this he received the award of the Einstein Academy of United States.

Also he was a professor at Berkeley University,Cambridge University,American University of Cairo,Cagliari University of Italy.

His scientific works appeared in hungarian, english, french, german, italian, russian, chinese, serb,finn,swede, hindi languages.

The web page of Dr. Kiszely István
http://istvandr.kiszely.hu

The list of scientific works:
http://istvandr.kiszely.hu/publikaciok.html

 
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Saint-Germain
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Re: A magyar ember -The hungarian man

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February 7 2006, 4:23 PM 

Quote:

Characteristics of Mongoloid and neighboring populations based on the genetic markers of human immunoglobulins.

Matsumoto H.

Department of Legal Medicine, Osaka Medical College, Japan.
Since the discovery in 1966 of the Gm ab3st gene, which characterizes Mongoloid populations, the distribution of allotypes of immunoglobulins (Gm) among Mongoloid populations scattered from Southeast Asia through East Asia to South America has been investigated, and the following conclusions can be drawn: 1. Mongoloid populations can be characterized by four Gm haplotypes, Gm ag, axg, ab3st, and afb1b3, and can be divided into two groups based on the analysis of genetic distances utilizing Gm haplotype frequency distributions: the first is a southern group characterized by a remarkably high frequency of Gm afb1b3 and a low frequency of Gm ag, and the second, a northern group characterized by a high frequency of both Gm ag and Gm ab3st but an extremely low frequency of Gm afb1b3. 2. Populations in China, mainly Han but including minority nationalities, show remarkable heterogeneity of Gm allotypes from north to south and contrast sharply to Korean and Japanese populations, which are considerably more homogenous with respect to these genetic markers. The center of dispersion of the Gm afb1b3 gene characterizing southern Mongoloids has been identified as the Guangxi and Yunnan area in the southwest of China. 3. The Gm ab3st gene, which is found with its the highest incidence among the northern Baikal Buriats, flows in all directions. However, this gene shows a precipitous drop from mainland China to Taiwan and Southeast Asia and from North to South America, although it is still found in high frequency among Eskimos, Koryaks, Yakuts, Tibetans, Olunchuns, Tungus, Koreans, Japanese, and Ainus. On the other hand, the gene was introduced into Huis, Uyghurs, Indians, Iranians, and spread as far as to include Hungarians and Sardinians in Italy_. On the basis of these results, it is concluded that the Japanese race belongs to northern Mongoloids and that the origin of the Japanese race was in Siberia, and most likely in the Baikal area of the Soviet Union.

PMID: 3056831 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 
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Saint-Germain
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Re: A magyar ember -The hungarian man

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February 7 2006, 4:25 PM 

Quote:

At this stage of the study, it would be premature to conclude that the local differences in the frequency of the Mongoloid markers are associated with certain Hungarian ethnic groups. What is clear is the fact that Mongoloid genetic markers are present in Hungarians in approximately 5%. Quoting professor Bartucz:" The mongoloid elements detected in Hungarians are not homogenous, and fall into several distinct groups that are not the different mixing forms of the same Mongoloid elements, but are original racial types within the Mongoloid race." (L. Bartucz: The Hungarian Man. in: Hungarian Land, Hungarian Race. 19??. p. 428.)
The genetic composition of Hungarians shows some similarities with that of the Japanese, so a distant relationship is undeniable. The great differences should be emphasized, however, since the Mongoloid genes are present at a much higher frequency in Mongoloids and Japanese. Is a common origin possible? There are no data available on whether or not Hungarians lived in the vicinity of Japanese. Nevertheless, the contact between Hungarians and Mongoloids are preserved in the genes, although it is not known yet when and where this contact took place.






Hideo Matsumoto (Osaka Medical College, Japan)
Hungarian Genetic Relations in Asia
http://studentorgs.utexas.edu/husa/origins/matsumoto.lecture.html

 
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Saint-Germain
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Re: A magyar ember -The hungarian man

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February 7 2006, 4:28 PM 

The genetical relationship of the conquerer hungarian people based on
Mitochondrial haplotypes.



Source:
Raskó István Genetikai idõutazás - Az emberi populációk eredetének nyomában (Genetical timetravel - In search for the origin of human populations) http://www.mindentudas.hu/rasko/20040308rasko.html?pIdx=6

The genetical relationship of hungarian populations based on
Mitochondrial haplotypes.
The red is european,the blue asian.


The genetical relationship of the hungarian székely populations based on
Mitochondrial haplotypes.
The red is european,the blue asian,the green african.




 
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Saint-Germain
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Re: A magyar ember -The hungarian man

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February 7 2006, 5:39 PM 


 
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Saint-Germain
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Re: A magyar ember -The hungarian man

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February 7 2006, 5:43 PM 

Hungarians are not related with finns or estonians.

Volt egyszer egy finnugor
http://sfkornyek.szabadsagharcos.org/finnugor.html

 
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Saint-Germain
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Re: A magyar ember -The hungarian man

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February 8 2006, 5:42 PM 

Gm and Km(Inv) Allotypic Markers in Hungarians
by Schanfield MS, Gergely J, Fudenberg HH.

The distribution of G1m(f, z, a, and x), G3m(b0, b1, b3, c3, c5, g, s, and t) and Km(1) (formerly Inv[1]) allotypic markers have been examined in 184 Hungarians. The results indicate that the frequency of the immunoglobulin haplotypes Gmza;g, Gmzax;g, Gmf;b and Km1 is similar to the frequencies observed in surrounding populations. In addition, Hungarians were found to be polymorphic for the Oriental haplotype Gmza;bst, and had low frequencies of other uncommon haplotypes. Our data indicate that about 5% of the Hungarian genome is of Oriental origin.
References:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 
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APOSTOLIC KING
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NA ILYEN RONDA ALFÖLDI JÓSZÁGOKAT

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February 8 2006, 6:43 PM 

ilyen ronda alföldi jószágokat rég nem láttam, ezek nem magyarok hanem alföldiek.
Az alföld a senki földje volt, egy kis ázsia a magyar királyságban, osztogatták mindenféle jöttment népnek, végigkúrta a török, költöztek oda mindenhonnan, ezért ott vizsgálatokat végezni a magyarok származásáról értelmetlen dolog.

Olyan mikor az alföldre megyek mint egy másik civilizáció vagy kultúra, minden idegen és barbár.

 
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Saint-Germain
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Re: A magyar ember -The hungarian man

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February 8 2006, 8:47 PM 

Lásd a fenti ábrákat.

Az MTA Régészeti Intézetével karöltve elindult az a kísérletsorozat, melynek célja a honfoglalás-kori magyarság genetikai összetételének feltérképezése, a 6-13. századi temetőkből származó csontok molekuláris genetikai feldolgozásával és az innen származó archaikus mtDNS vizsgálatával. Az általunk megvizsgált csontleletek Magyarország öt különböző régiójában fellelhető temetkezési helyekről származnak. Ezek közül érdekességként szolgál az ausztriai Gnadendorfból, az eddigi legnyugatibb honfoglalás kori lelőhelyről származó lelet.

Az eddig feldolgozott 10-12. századi temetkezési helyekről származó 33 csontlelet alapján megállapítható, hogy bár a leletek szekvencia szinten heterogén mintázatot mutatnak, mégis besorolhatók összesen 8 európai, illetve ázsiai típusú haplocsoportba. Európai és ázsiai típusú genetikai elemek nagyjából ugyanolyan gyakorisággal jelennek meg ebben az archaikus populációban. Az európai népcsoportokat tekintve a honfoglalóknál talált haplotípusok uráli, kelet-európai, közép-európai és balkáni populációkban leírt szekvenciákkal mutatnak azonos mutációs mintázatot. A csontokból nyert adatokat mai magyar (73 minta), illetve székely (38 minta) populációkkal összehasonlítva azt látjuk, hogy a két mai populációban előfordulnak még az ázsiai típusú genetikai elemek, de a honfoglaló populációhoz képest már jóval kisebb gyakorisággal. Ugyanakkor mind a két modern populációban az európai típusú haplocsoportok dominanciáját figyelhetjük meg.

 
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APOSTOLIC KING
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NA NE MÁR

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February 9 2006, 12:51 PM 

Alföldi emberkék fényképeit tetted ki, akiknek a legkisebb közük sincs a magyarokhoz.

Kultúrájuk közelebb áll a balkánhoz mint a többi magyar régióhoz, ezt b.melyik kultúr-antropológiai könyvben elolvashatod.
Színtiszta magyarok csak az ausztria által ecsatolt területeken és felvidéken vannak. Ott sosem járt török, nagy népességû régiók,és sosem volt betelepítgetés.

Másrészt az alföldi területeken vett mintákat megmosolygom.

Sokan a vidék szó hallatán pesten az alföldre gondolnak, mivel legtöbb pesti onnan jött.(azaz legszegényebb régióból)

 
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Ernö
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Hungary Forum Mods Group

haha

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February 9 2006, 6:15 PM 

whats the point of this thread?

itt a magyar ember:
here's your hungarian man:


 
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Saint-Germain
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Re: A magyar ember -The hungarian man

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February 18 2006, 9:05 PM 

Eléggé szélsőséges véleményed van AK. Az alföldet is eléggé kipusztitotta a török,a törökidők leteltével az ország más területeiről is telepitették.

Példa:

Emlitetted a Felföld-et

A Felföld legnagyobb etnikai csoportja a palóc. Neve a különböző szláv nyelvekben kunt jelent, ami esetleg származásukra is utalhat, de még valószínűbb, hogy csak környezetük tartotta annak őket. Ma a kunsághoz való kapcsolatuk hagyományokban élő nyomát kevéssé lehet felfedezni. A Garam folyásától keletre egészen Borsod megye közepéig, helyenként azon túl is terjednek telepeik. Északon a magyar nyelv-határig mind palócok élnek. Délen határukat még nehezebb megszabni, mert helyenként a török kiűzése után a szapora lakosság még a Dél-Alföldre is kirajzott.

Balassa Iván – Ortutay Gyula
Magyar néprajz

http://mek.oszk.hu/02700/02789/html/8.html

 
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APOSTOLIC KING
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NEVETSÉGES

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February 19 2006, 11:51 AM 

Mindenáron bizonygatni szeretnéd ázsiai színesbõrû népektõl való származást, minek legtökéletesebb cáfolata az európai géntérképed

 
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Saint-Germain
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Re: A magyar ember -The hungarian man

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February 20 2006, 9:30 PM 

Ezt meg,hogy értelmezed?

Szerinted mindez hamis, vagyis a magyar genetikusok tévednek?
Na lássuk csak milyen ötleteid vannak a magyarsággal kapcsolatban?!!!

"Az MTA Régészeti Intézetével karöltve elindult az a kísérletsorozat, melynek célja a honfoglalás-kori magyarság genetikai összetételének feltérképezése, a 6-13. századi temetőkből származó csontok molekuláris genetikai feldolgozásával és az innen származó archaikus mtDNS vizsgálatával. Az általunk megvizsgált csontleletek Magyarország öt különböző régiójában fellelhető temetkezési helyekről származnak. Ezek közül érdekességként szolgál az ausztriai Gnadendorfból, az eddigi legnyugatibb honfoglalás kori lelőhelyről származó lelet."

"A csontokból nyert adatokat mai magyar (73 minta), illetve székely (38 minta) populációkkal összehasonlítva azt látjuk, hogy a két mai populációban előfordulnak még az ázsiai típusú genetikai elemek, de a honfoglaló populációhoz képest már jóval kisebb gyakorisággal. Ugyanakkor mind a két modern populációban az európai típusú haplocsoportok dominanciáját figyelhetjük meg."

 
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Anonymous
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Re: A magyar ember -The hungarian man

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February 25 2006, 10:11 PM 

Yea we all know that you ancestors were mogoloid...
But it is good that you posted this.

 
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APOSTOLIC KING
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THIS IS A GOOD MAP

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February 26 2006, 12:08 PM 

Europe nowadays:
Look romanians and serbians
Their blood more asiatic than hungarian blood (look the brown and black colours)

Romanians and serbians aren't white nations: look their black hair and black eyes (and the olive skin)


[img][/img]

 
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Anonymous
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Re: A magyar ember -The hungarian man

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February 26 2006, 1:23 PM 

Sure mongoloid idiot.

No go hang youreself.

 
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stasi
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Re: A magyar ember -The hungarian man

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February 28 2006, 7:26 AM 

better "mongoloid" then gipsy.
At least mongoloid ancestors were feared warriors, you dacian-gipsy scum are just the loosers throughout history.

 
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albanezo_1
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Re: A magyar ember -The hungarian man

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February 28 2006, 8:02 AM 

hey gipsyboy bee nice, romanian scum

 
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sorid
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TO ANY LOL AROUND HERE

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March 1 2006, 9:39 PM 

I allways said that the Hungarians are really natural born idiots. People who enormly love to heat their balls with a TESLA (carpentry tool, in Romanian)....How can the Hungarian-Gypsy people talk about Romanians while a post like this one clearly show us such Hungarian characters ? Take a look to those faces ! Take a look to yourself ! All faces of retarded people as you really are ! Oh, God ! why did you let this tragedy happens ? Why did you push these barbarians towards us ?
If you Hungarians are such a good people as you claim, just do something good for once : grab your dirty stuff, get on your wagons and turn back to our Mongolian steppes and Punjab mountains ! Forget about OUR beautiful Europe and leave us alone to live civilized on our lands ! Go home ! Go to MOngolia ! Go to Punjab ! What a brainless wild beasts !

 
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