Respectful discourseDecember 19 2009 at 8:15 PM
|Michael Dorosh |
Response to Ewww, sorry to upset you sir!
We might find the discussion a little more useful with less sarcasm.
As far as Bomber Command goes, I always found it interesting that Speer himself has always been an interesting focus of attention on how little the Allied bombing campaign(s) apparently effected the work of his ministry and factories. He noted that if the Allies had simply concentrated on one single industry, they might well have put Germany in more dire straits, quicker, than Germany managed to put itself into - for example, say, roller bearings. Granted, this is in hindsight. Production in Germany continued to go up into 1944 in just about all areas of war materiel, though that may be testimony more of how poorly organized they were in the early years of the war than testimony of lack of skill on the part of the USAAF and RAF. None of which suggests that that the RAF/USAAF lacked skill or weren't brave or didn't honestly feel they were conducting legitimate operations of war for the furtherment of the Allied cause.
I don't have an opinion on espionage/fifth column activities and &tc. but I'm having trouble seeing a link between ULTRA on the one hand, which was vital to the conduct of the war and which you mention, Ken, and broadly (and vaguely) discussing the torture of prisoners, which seems somewhat irrelevant. I had this discussion about the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, but this should be easier to do with so many 1939-45 documents declassified. How many prisoners in the Second World War, who had been captured and tortured, actually divulged information that was vital (and by vital I mean had a role in influencing operations)? I'm of the understanding that torture simply doesn't work, and that it is an extremely poor method of extracting information. There is more than ample evidence of it, and even if it did work in one or two instances, those that practice it are foolish because there are far better and proven methods that work so much better.
If you could provide one or two solid examples where "torture worked" I'd be interested in reading about them.
Interesting conversation, hopefully you don't mind if I intrude.
- Efficacy of Torture - A.J. Lockard on Dec 20, 2009, 8:10 AM
- Bomber Command and such! - Ken Joyce on Dec 20, 2009, 10:50 AM
- Link and Tickling - Ken Joyce on Dec 20, 2009, 11:01 AM
- Reading a book - Michael Dorosh on Dec 20, 2009, 4:38 PM
- OMG - Ken Joyce on Dec 20, 2009, 9:56 PM
- Re: Bomber Command and such! - Rick R on Dec 21, 2009, 2:12 PM
- BS - Ken Joyce on Dec 21, 2009, 4:42 PM
- Logistics - Ken Joyce on Dec 20, 2009, 12:29 PM