Hello, I`ve just picked up one of the Canadian DPM style Para smocks and I was wondering if these are made of more than one type of fabric and how it would normally be tagged? The one I purchased seems only to have the remnant of a small white tag at the neck. It doesn`t look like anything else was removed, could it be correct? Thanks

To the best of my knowledge they were only made of one material. Of course I can not remember what the blend was by I think it was a nylon with something else off the top of my head. It was not ripstop. I have never seen them with a tag in the neck ever.
The only exception to this rule I can think of is prototype stuff which does exist of course. I would suggest you take a picture and post it here so that hopefully somebody else can confirm that I am correct(hopefully they wont tell you to buy a book).
The label for size, description, NSN and manufacturer is always down near the front bottom of the zipper on the inside of course. The only other label is a large one which is on the inside in the small of your back with care instructions and how to launder it etc. I hope this helps
Dave

Kevin,

There has been a lot of on-line discussion about the Canadian issue DPM para-smocks, and how they came to be issued. The company that made the smocks used the same camouflage cloth they had already used for a combat uniform contract (pants and shirts) for the Tanzanian Army. The Tanzanian uniform pattern was based on the old Canadian combat uniform with the slanted shirt pockets, but using the camouflage cloth. The only tags on these uniforms was a small white cloth tag at the neck.

They looked like this:




As Dave mentions, the Canadian pattern smock has two labels; one on the inside mid-back and one on the lower inside left front.

The labels look like this:






I borrowed these images from another web-site. I would have used "Mark's Camouflage Uniforms" but that site seems to have gone down.

Kevin, if you can rustle up a copy of the book 'Eat Your Weakest Man' (2000) by Rui Amaral you will find an appendix that explains in detail the how the smocks came to be, including the use of the Tanzanian Army camouflage.

Cheers,
Dan.

Thanks, I`ve posted a couple of photos. You can see where a tag was removed at the neck, but there`s no other tags. Very tan compared to most DPM. Found here in London. Could this be a prototype?



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Hi,
Your smock is Canadian Issue. It was worn by both the Canadian Airborne Regiment as well as the Special Service Force (SSF) in Petawawa Ontario. (Some of the CAR vets on this site will be able to provide exact dates of the introduction). There were a few other exceptions, (Jump Companies of a few select Reserve Infantry Regiments). In 1968 when the Canadian Airborne Regiment was formed, the first true "Canadian" smock was used. It was nylon with a full zip but made in a monotone green colour. Initial date of manufacture was NLT 1968.
The initial Canadian made camoflage smock was introduced about 1975, and it was a much darker base pattern than your smock, but also has a distinct plastic zipper. All of the female snaps had non voided centres. By 1977-1978 a metal zipper had replaced the plastic zipper and the colour was lighter but the non voided snaps were maintained. This will date your smock to about 1978ish. In discussion with some of the riggers in Petawawa one of the defects of the female snaps were that they were "popped" off by the male snap when connected. The result was by the late 70's/early 80's all snaps were made with a voided female snap on smocks being manufactured. One of my issue smocks that I still have is identical to yours and is dated 1978. (If you look closely on some of the newer smocks for sale, you will see the circular hole made in the female snap).

Following the disbandment of the Airborne Regiment the smock was removed from primary service (Mid 90's). The very last serving members of the Canadian Forces to wear the smock was the Canadian Airborne Centre (CAC) in Trenton Ontario. I don't have dates handy, but it was post 1999. It was replaced with the introduction of the Temerate Wear (TW) CADPAT uniform system.

My dates may be out a year or two but your smock is a Canadian made and issued item. Although the smock does not wear well, it was IMHO the sharpest piece of kit the CF issued post 1945.

Hope this helps.

Yeah, That helps indeed. Didn`t expect that type of pinpoint dating. Most appreciated Paul!

Cheers, Kevin

My Mark II, when he was in cadets, made a jump smock of Cadpat material. He wore this on his Dutch para course in '06 as well as last year in Italy when he did an Italian/Croatian course. I cannot post the pix from Haiti but will try to remember when I am back in Ottawa.

Posted are images of the camo smock showing location of labels, with close-up details, including the labels. Hope this helps to ID your smock, which obviously is not one of the Tanzanian BDUs patterned after the Canadian combat uniform.

OK - Here I go again - not to pee on the parade, IMHO, ( - ), the camo smock is a poor quality copy of the OD nylon smock. It's really a POS. It sucks.

Unlike the OD nylon smock, the camo version, if mine is truly representative, would hardly hold up to serious field use. It's no more than a heavy shirt, and of such poor quality that the stitching readily falls apart. The only comparison that can be made with the old OD nylon smock is that it's a lousy knock-off. Now, I realize that the CAR guys are going to go ape shit over my remarks, but all one has to do is to compare the two smocks side by side.

The camo smock might be OK as a garrison jacket, but it would be worthless/useless in the field.
It's just way too flimsy.


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Thanks Alex

I wonder if the OD smock is based on a prototype created by A/Lt. Col. Routh at the A-35 Center during the war. The overall configuration practically matches his suggestions. They were trying to develop an OD and camo version with practically the same types of snaps and pocket shapes. Ultimately using the US Suit Parachute Jumper as a model. Might explain the thin material used and more snug fit. As far as I know they used Deacon Bros of Belleville to acquire a sateen or nylon material as well as to put them together. They did create winter white suits for parachute use. I also wonder about the date of the actual prototype of the OD smock. I went to visit Ken Arril once and he had several examples of these smocks. One which appeared quite odd to me and looked like a prototype garment. I think he left well before 1968.

Ken, that's very interesting information, something I have not heard before. I'd really be interested in hearing more. Please post!

My own impression has always been that the OD Nylon Smock was patterned after the
Denison smock, for no other reason other than the similarity in design. However, you may be onto something new! The smock's origin is something that I've never questioned previously, but you bring up some vital information! Please tell us more!

I've got no idea at all what information is on the label on my nylon smock. It was common practice, in my day, to have the collars lined with camo parachute material, but mine has a full camo lining which conceals the manufacturer's label. There definitely is a label stitched inside, just below the collar, but unless the lining is torn apart, there's no telling what's on the label.

Another common practice was to sew an elastic waistband into the smock. In garrison use, a web belt with regimental brass buckle was normally worn, so the elastic waistband was a popular modification.

Hi Alex

It is covered lightly in the Maelstrom book. I gave all my documents on this prototype stuff to Clive some time ago. I am not sure if they included reference to the experimental jackets or not. They were also developing an airborne jerkin at Shilo. I know I gave him those doc's. If I recall right, and it has been some time, there are sketches of the Routh design at the archives. It is very clear it was to be based on the US Suit Parachute Jumper of 1941-1945 period with the incorporation of the lozenge shaped snaps with pocket flaps that have an extension as a pull tab. The shape being practically the same as the OD suit under discussion. Since prototype garments were made by both Routh and Bradbrooke, these were turned over to Ordnance who were to decide their viability. It is likely that even though they were not accepted, they were stored for future reference which was commonplace. So it is possible these experimental garments were pulled in the 60's as reference for a new garment? Or serving members who were at A-35/ARDC and remained in the military up to the 60's had some say. Otherwise a very strange coinkydink.

Thanks for following up and the extra photos. Mine seems fairly well made, not a very heavy weight fabric, but stitching is good.
Mine would seem to be an earlier issue, maybe the quality went downhill as time went on? Anyway, I appreciate the assistance. Cheers!

I have a Canadian Airborne Smock for sale!

It is near mint condition, Here's what it says on the label:

AMBRIDGE & THOMPSON (1987) INC,.
SMOCK,PARACHUTIST,DISRUPTIVE PATTERN.
8415-21-874-4030
size 2 short/medium
HEIGHT 63" to 67"
CHEST 37.6 to 41.5
6070-9505
AUGUST 1989


asking $200.00 (shipping,postage insurance is "extra" etc,.)

Chris

Here's a rather interesting read on the history of Canadian manufactured DPM uniform(s).



http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=50857




Chris

Thanks Chris, that def adds more info. It also makes me much happier about my theory of the origin of the OD jackets. I had a hunch they were earlier than 1960's as I have undated photos of ex FSSF members wearing them which appeared to be earlier than a 1960's date. Now to find out if that design actually originated at A-35 based on their experimental smocks?

There was some good material on this subject in the thread below. Hope I've captured it OK.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/28173/thread/1064881545/1950%27s-60%27s+OG+Nylon+Para+Smock+Questions

Just a brief note - I'm halfway out the door .... sorry ..

How could the OD nylon smocks be "extremely rare in the mid-1960s" when there were three regiments, 2PPCLI, 2RCR and 2R22R with respective jump companies, recce platoons, Int secs, and various other personnel on jump status, not to mention the folks at Rivers, sigs personnel, gunners, riggers, who knows who else, all on jump status, all issued with OD nylon smocks? We still had the smocks in early 1965! I can't verify what happened after mid-1965 because that's when we rotated to Germany,
leaving jump status, but this would indicate that in the mid-1960s there were sufficient numbers of smocks to equip the entire CAR !! What happened to the smocks?

The OD smocks were definitely issued to jump companies during the 1950s. However, a mix of Denison smocks and OD smocks were common in Rivers for serials at least up to 1960, but not within regimental jump companies which were issued exclusively with the OD smock.

Gotta run right now, but I'll be happy to answer questions regarding the elastic waist, collar material, zipper pulls, rank insignia, name tags, and whatever you'd like to throw at me. With first hand knowledge, I might add.