correction to 3rd Canadian Armoured Brigade pageApril 28 2017 at 9:44 AM
|Jack Geratic |
I don't have a contact mail for the web site, but the formation symbol associated with 3rd Armoured Brigade of 1942 needs to be changed, as right now they have the independent style of marking.
Could be wrong, but this unit never was independent, and when created was directly under 4th Canadian (Armoured) Div.
So if a formation symbol is to be associated with it, should it not be the gold leaf on green background?
|May 10 2017, 8:51 AM |
Thanks for the note, I'll have to review this and make the indicated change, as necessary. Will have to go back to my original references and see what's up.
By the way, there is contact info listed on the site right in the header - click CONTACT
What about cloth title?
|May 10 2017, 7:46 PM |
If the 3rd A.B. was under the 4th Division with respect to its unit sign, how does that explain the cloth 3rd A.B. battledress flashes that exist? It seems they were worn for a period so you would expect the vehicle formation sign to have been displayed as well.
Order of Battle
|May 11 2017, 5:30 AM |
There definitely was an independent 3 Canadian Army Tank Brigade. And there was also a 3 Cdn Armoured Brigadge. The independent 3 CTB was the one which had the order of battle flipped and the units involved, Grey & Simcoe Foresters, Halifax Rifles, 16/22nd Sask Horse (originally 2 CTB) were transferred to 3 CTB. The original 3 CTB regiments, 1st Hussars, Fort Garry Horse, and Sherbrooke Fusilier Regt were transferred to 2 CTB. Then, in July of 1943, all tank brigades were redesignated and 2 CTB became 2 Cdn Armoured Bde. 3 CTB was not redesignated, as there was already 3 CAB in 4 Cdn Armd Div. (order of battle, Cdn Grenadier Gds, Gov Gen Foot Gds, and British Columbia Regt). 3 CTB was slated for disbandment and became a holding formation until personnel were dispersed and the formation was disbanded Nov 1, 1943.
In answer to Bruce's question, the patches that are extant were actually for the independent 3 CTB. And to confuse matters even more, the original order of battle was the basis of the numbered regimental designations imposed on the 3 CTB patches and 2 CTB patches.
Re: Order of Battle
|July 23 2017, 1:27 PM |
Thanks Michael. Yes I see the contact 'button' at top of page, but it does not bring me to a page listing actual contacts. It just advises me I don't have an email program associated with the site.
Not saying either unit did not exist, just that the same emblem cannot be used for both armoured units as they were separate entities.
I've checked my copy of Distinguishing Patches by Clive Law, and there is no entry of patches for 3rd Canadian Armoured Brigade. Maybe the sample Bruce mentions is unofficial?
Also looking at the dates as presented here at CanadianSoldiers, 3rd CAB was created Jan.26 1942, and then became part of 4th CAD, effective January 26 1942.
Re: Order of Battle
|July 23 2017, 1:40 PM |
Should add that in the book Distinguishing patches, 3rd Canadian Armoured Bde is added as part of 4th Armd Div already in 1941? It's patch is just a solid green rectangle.
|July 24 2017, 1:37 PM |
Thanks for following up, Jack, I obviously have not been diligent! Will try and look at this soon.
|July 25 2017, 5:38 AM |
As noted in my post, there were two 3 Brigades that were armoured in the Canadian Army during the Second World War. 3 Canadian Army Tank Brigadge was an independent brigade and had a series of patches based on a black and gray lozenge shape. 3 Canadian Armoured Brigade was only a component of the 4 Canadian Armoured Division. It was organized 26 Jan 1942. In the January reorganization of the armoured divisions, 3 Canadian Armoured Brigade was disbanded. For the life of the 3 CAB, the units in it would have worn the green rectangular patch of 4 CAD.