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Are Drugs to Blame

March 23 2012 at 9:05 AM
 

As adults we would like to find some reason why a child has taken their life. We would like to blame drug companies, parents, the childs upbringing. The truth is there is no reason, the person that has taken their life just did not want to be here anymore. I have been on zoloft since 1996 and on prozac - i am still here. I had being trying to kill myself long before that. If i had suceeded it would not have been the drugs fault - i was not on anything - but wait that is why i didnt suceed - the truth is if i really wanted to kill myself i would and no drug or lack of would make me do it. Do i want to be normal - yes. My children stopped me from trying to kill myself. I hate the world it stinks but they are my reason i am here. I do not agree with Linda Hurcombe that drugs are the problem. The problem is the child/person does not want to be here and nothing anyone can do will change that. Individuals have to be responsible for themselves. I still think of killing myself but dont act on it. I live my days day by day. I dont blame the drug companies or my parents or their lifestyle choices. I want to kill myself but i make that choice my being on prozac does not push me closer or keep me from doing it - I DO. Stop blaming others, stop blaming yourself. It is no ones fault it just IS. Find peace they have.

 
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Hi Roxanne

March 25 2012, 10:55 AM 

The problem is that the drugs can cause suidicality and homicidality in people who were NOT suicidal or homicidal before being prescribed the drugs.

Also, drugs are often given for uses that are nothing to do with mental illness.  For instance they've been prescribed for weight problems,  hormonal problems, and things like that and can cause suicidality and homicidality in mentally healthy people.


 
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About drug-induced suicides - why they are so unexpected and usually so violent

March 25 2012, 4:20 PM 

This doesn't seem to me like a teenager who was suicidal. Caitlin Hurcombe seem to me like a teenager who, within minutes or hours after obvious joy and excitement over what had happened earlier that same day, became suicidal while on "MIND ALTERING DRUGS" she had been taking for a couple of months.

It also seems very similar to the sudden "altered states" (of mind) that these drugs can cause where people experience a kind of 'dream state' (or 'nightmare state') that only should ever appear during sleep (from which you would normally and naturally wake up) where whatever horror of a kind of 'movie' you find yourself in - you are IN it and you have NO WAY OF KNOWING that it is unreal.

Whatever monsterous things you see while in that 'movie' (for want of a better word) you have to deal with accordingly BECAUSE they are REAL. To you.  Just as they are when experienced from the effects of 'illegal' drugs.

In some cases, children kill their parents and vice versa. Nobody knows what they 'saw' in that movie, why the only option was to kill (awful nightmares can make demons out of the faces of people you love for instance) but it would have been just as horrific as it is when drug-induced altered states suddenly cause someone to hang themselves, or jump off a cliff, or jump off a high bridge into a deep river, or shoot themselves in the head, or cut their own throat with a chain saw - all of which methods of suicide (and many more) are recorded. 

When this happens, it isn't that the person is depressed and has become suicidal due to depression, it is usually sudden, shocking, unbelievable to family and friends and its a result of a view of a horror that is beyond normal comprehension...because it is DRUG INDUCED and drugs can make normal  scary nightmares people sometimes get in sleep seem like alright dreams in comparison to the ones that can be experienced in waking nightmare states and there is no way of being able to explain their horror in a way unaffected people can ever fully understand because human beings do not 'naturally' go through the hellish world drug chemicals can induce. 

If you have never experienced the horrors of 'altered mind states'  then it is quite understandable if you can't kind of feel or see how it is, but please try and bear the above in mind when you are reading the following:

 

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-102498005.html

"...CAITLIN HURCOMBE was a vicar's daughter with a promising life ahead of her. Clever and artistic, she loved to ride her beloved pony, was about to take a degree and hoped to be an actress.Yet in April 1998 the pretty 19-year-old took her own life just 63 days after being prescribed Prozac.

Here, her mother Linda, a 60-year-old teacher from Clun, Shropshire, who is divorced from Caitlin's father Tom, 57, tells CLAUDIA JOSEPH her haunting story.

THE LAST time I saw my daughter alive, I went into her bedroom and she had her little dog Gus cuddled under the duvet with her. I kissed her and said 'I love you', before rushing to catch a train to work. When I rang home that evening, she said: 'Mum, I've had a great day. I had a great rehearsal and tutorial, and I'm going to sing a solo tomorrow.' It was the last time I heard her voice.

I arrived home that night of April 6, 1998 - two months before Caitlin's 20th birthday - with my friend Trish, just before 11pm.

Oasis was playing full blast on the stereo. I turned it down and shouted Caitlin's name, then went upstairs to check.

She was not in her room, so I stuck my head in the guest bedroom, where I saw the most horrific sight.

Caitlin was hanging from a beam with a pillowcase over her head. She had got her piano bench to stand on, thrown her pony's rein three times around the beam and then around her neck, put the pillowcase over her head and kicked away the bench.

It was a tableau of sheer horror and I was almost frozen with shock.

We brought her down from the beam and her body was still warm, so I thought she was alive. She was wearing a grey fleece, jeans and trainers. I wondered why on earth she had decided to hide her face. Perhaps it was just wishful thinking, but I could feel her presence in the room, trying to get back in her body.

I rang our GP, who came round straight away, and an ambulance "



    
This message has been edited by SSRIAdmin on Mar 25, 2012 7:24 PM


 
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Why some and not others?

March 25 2012, 7:03 PM 

Why do some people become suicidal and homicidal in such a volatile way?

At least some of it is down to genetic polymorphism.

A substantial proportion of the population (there are variations in different races) cannot GENETICALLY,  PHYSICALLY metabolise drugs. The result is a build up of the drug to a  toxicity level - and with drugs that affect the brain, toxicity leads to things like I've already described in the last message. 

Of course, there's always the question of how much metabolism CAN take place with people who are NOT polymorphic but ARE being prescribed more and more drugs all at the same time? Surely there's a limit as to how much/many chemicals can the most genetically perfect human body bear without getting a build up of toxicity?  After all, we are carbon-based life forms designed to continually process natural chemicals that are in the human body, but we are not designed as robust chemical processing units for pharma/industrial conglomerations.

Genetic polymorphism is fact, not fiction,  and the results are not 'anecdotal evidence', not 'due to the patient's mental illness' not 'a conspiracy', its science and no matter how long science is ignored it still remains FACT.  While it REMAINS generally ignored, the safety of prescribing and the lives of patients also remain seriously at risk.

This video from Dr Magnus Ingelman-Sundberg

http://www.scivee.tv/node/10761

called "Pharmacogenomic biomarkers for prediction of "severe adverse drug reactions" explains how important this science is right across the board.

If you google   genetic polymorphism in drug metabolism and pharmacotherapy   you'll see a lot of scientific articles on the subject.

And a good article on how genetic polymorphism is so important to understand with regard to psychiatric drugs is:

"NEW DRUGS, POORLY RECOGNISED CONDITIONS, GENETIC POLYMORPHISM AND THE CRISIS IN MENTAL HEALTH "   by Yolande Lucire PhD MB BS DPM FRANZCP.

http://www.lucire.com.au/documents/Re-focussing-Upstream-New-Generation-Drugs-and-Public-Health.aspx

I've done my very best today to explain things and I hope all the above goes some way to helping you understand that suicides (or homicides) caused by DRUG TOXICITY are most often sudden, unusual, violent, out of character and TOTALLY unpredictable.

You asked us

'Are Drugs to Blame'

The above is my best attempt at an answer to that question.



    
This message has been edited by SSRIAdmin on Mar 25, 2012 7:14 PM


 
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I'm a little worried about...

March 25 2012, 1:50 PM 

you too, Roxanne.

You say you've been on Zoloft and Prozac since 1996 which is an awful long time.

You also said things like: 

"I still think of killing myself but dont act on it." 

"I hate the world it stinks but they [children] are my reason i am here".

 " I want to kill myself but i make that choice my being on prozac does not push me closer or keep me from doing it - I DO."

From what you have said, the drugs don't seem to be helping you at all, aren't antidepressants 'supposed' to stop the type of depression that makes people feel like killing themselves?

Anyone who continues to take drugs with so many adverse effects listed which aren't helping the problems that they were taken for, needs to know  they are risking other serious 'physical' problems that could leave them with disabilities that would be likely to significantly worsen your state of mind or, as in some cases of heart attack for instance, could end life altogether.

Prozac and Zoloft have a LOT of serious adverse effects associated with them.

FDA reported adverse effects of Zoloft (sertraline):

https://www.rxisk.org/Research/DrugInformation.aspx?DrugID=880&ProductDrugID=1554&ProductName=

The same re Prozac (fluoxetine):

https://www.rxisk.org/Research/DrugInformation.aspx?DrugID=236&ProductDrugID=4091&ProductName=

It is of course up to you if you decide to remain on them, that is entirely your decision.

BUT if you ever decide those risks are NOT worth taking, then please take care to taper off them very very carefully.  It takes some people several months to safely wean off bit by bit though some people can get away with just a short period of cutting down. 

Take care.

 


 
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