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Overvalwagens! updated

January 16 2005 at 10:36 AM
  (Premier Login nuyt)
Missing-Lynx members
from IP address 82.92.19.172

Dear Reader of Overvalwagens!,

The January 2005 Edition of Overvalwagens! is ready, featuring:

- a new chapter Marmon-Herrrington tanks;

- a new picture of the month!

Please visit http://www.overvalwagen.com/

as well as the Overvalwagen Forum

http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333


Kind regards,

A.F. Nuyt

 
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AuthorReply

(no login)
203.221.62.9

Thanks for an interesting site Eric!

January 17 2005, 12:35 AM 

and an interesting subject. I was aware of only the Marmon Herringtons ordered for the K.N.I.L. but not the wheeled vehicles.

 
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(Login DBear82)
64.12.116.131

Re: Marmon-Herrington tanks

January 17 2005, 8:44 AM 

Hey Shane,

Marmon-Herrington actually made many versions of mostly light tanks:

CTL-1 - more of a tankette than a light tank; it had a barbette design with single bow .30 cal. machine-gun
CTL-2 - improved version of the CTL-1 with thicker armor and solid roadwheels instead of spoked ones
CTL-3 - improved CTL-2 with a stepped hull front and 3 bow .30 cal. machine gun mounts
CTL-3A - CTL-3 with an extensively modified suspension
CTL-3M - CTL-3 fitted with vertical volute suspension
CTL-6 - an improved version of the CTL-3 series with a horizontal rear deck
CTVL - a very small tankette having a barbette superstructure with 2 bow-mounted .30 cal. machine-guns
CTLS-4TAC - light tank with turre on the right-hand side
CTLS-4TAY - light tank with turre on the left-hand side
CTM-3TBD - Marmon-Herrington's first light tank with a turret and diesel engine version; armed only with Colt .30 cal. machine guns however
CTMS-1TBI aka "Dutch 3-man tank" - heavier version but very similar in appearance to the CTM-3TB; armed with AAC 37mm gun in the turret, and several Colt .30 cal. machine guns
MTLS-1GI4 aka "Dutch 4-man Tank" - very similar in appearance to the CTMS-1TBI; turret with twin AAC 37mm guns; several Colt .30 cal. machine guns. Classified as a medium tank, it was the largest tank built by Marmon-Herrington

Eric's site also covers the artillery tractors Marmon-Herrington manufactured. Also, do not forget about the Marmon-Herrington armored cars built in and used by South Africa during WWII.

Besides the KNIL, the M-H tanks served in Cuba, Ecuador, Guatemala, and Mexico.

HTH

Dave

 
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(no login)
203.194.44.13

Thanks Dave.

January 17 2005, 11:26 PM 

So what did the Americans use in the Aluetians?

 
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(Login DBear82)
205.188.116.196

American usage in Alaska

January 18 2005, 7:45 AM 

Hey Shane,

You're quite welcome. I am always happy to discuss this topic with anyone.

Anyway, to answer your question, the U.S. Army used primarily the T16 (CTLS-4TAC) in various locations in Alaska. It is possible that they also had some T14 (CTLS-4TAY) there as well. None of these tanks were used in the re-taking of the Aleutian Islands however. Terrain conditions were not favorable for their usage there.

HTH

Dave

 
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(no login)
203.221.62.15

Thanks again Dave

January 18 2005, 1:37 PM 

I have a passing interest in the Marmon Herringtons as a shipment of 149 of them were diverted from the Dutch East Indies and sent to Australia. I first heard about this about 12 tears ago and didn't really believe it as I had never seen any evidence of it. Then Paul Handel published "Dust Sand and Jungle" about 2 years ago and on page 56 was a pic of a CTLS-4TAC at the Singleton training ground in 1942. Apparently they were mainly known as Hercules because of the engines, and were regarded as reliable and well built but not really combat worthy. Unfortunately the Australian government in its infinite wisdom decided to scrap them in 1943 and apparently used the armour in locally built landing craft. This is why I had never seen any example. I do recall Wheels and Tracks magazine printing a photo of a couple of Marmons as gate guardians in Guatemala I think but are there any other survivors. Especially in the States?

 
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(Login DBear82)
152.163.100.131

The M-H tanks

January 18 2005, 5:02 PM 

Hey Shane,

I cannot explain my fascination with the Marmon-Herrington tanks. I realize they were far from being "great" tanks. However, as you stated, the Dutch and the Latin American countries that used them felt they were tough and reliable vehicles. The U.S. troops had a different opinion from what I have read though.

This can be attributed to the fact that U.S. soldiers had access to tanks produced with government backing. Marmon-Herrington set out to sell tanks as a commercial venture, using their own assets and designs. In a sense, you could say that Marmon-Herrington was the United States' "Skoda" (although Skoda tanks had a much more glorious history).

Locating information and photos on these tanks is a task in itself. If you are not familiar with them in the first place, finding information is even that much more difficult. To this day I cannot keep the various nomenclatures of the "normal" WWII tanks straight (not always at least). However, by some quirk of nature, I am able to cite the nomenclature used by Marmon-Herrington on thier "tanks".

Don't ask me where they came up with those names. Some of them, like the CTL series are easy (Combat Tank, Light), but what the heck does CTMS-1TBI and MTLS-1GI4 mean?!

As for the tank in Guatemala you spoke about, I've seen a photo of it on the internet (but can't for the life of me remember where).

Dave

 
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(no login)
64.80.12.154

Marmon Harrington in private collection

January 25 2005, 12:43 PM 

Gentlemen: I took a few photos of a mostly restored Marmon-Harrington at an AFV show in PA in 1998 (don't remember who the owner was but he purchased them in South America). It caused quite a stir when taken off the trailer at the event. If you are interested I will scan the photos and send them to you.
Regards,

Tom

 
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(Premier Login nuyt)
Missing-Lynx members
145.7.91.126

Pictures

January 26 2005, 5:18 AM 

Hi Tom, I am very interested in those pictures. Could you send them to me (e-mail above)?
Kind regards,
Nuyt

 
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(Login DBear82)
152.163.100.131

Ohh! Ohh!

January 29 2005, 7:52 AM 

Check your e-mail Tom. I would love to get my hands on some more Marmon-Herrington tank photos!

Dave

 
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