It seems that the very successful tourney that Stoney Creek ran last year was not approved by the OWHA this year. The Tourney pitted top Midget and Intermediate programs from both the US and Ontario against each other. It was called the USA/Canada Cup.


They have given Stoney the run around here from as far as I can tell. I was told last year that this event would likely not take place again as the OWHA disliked the fact that they invited US teams, but I thought that after the event was such a hit that they would again sanction this event.


I have heard from a few sources that the reason the OWHA first gave was that they would not sanction this event as it was on a weekday and I was told again that they then said that they will not allow Stoney to host two tourneys in the Same age group and division in the same year.

I guess my source last year was correct and the OWHA does object to the fact that Stoney is inviting teams from the USA to compete as they wanted this to be just a Canadian Challenge. Well I hate to tell you OWHA you do not run Stoney Creek hockey.


You have again overstepped your boundaries and in fact are not promoting female hockey in this province at all with your actions.....never mind promoting goodwill towards USA hockey.

Is it not the Job of the OWHA to Sanction the events that are put forth by all member associations as long as they show that they can run the event within the rules of the OWHA? I bet you already cashed the cheque that was submitted with the tournament application.

I say screw the OWHA and have this event sanctioned directly through Hockey Canada.

It is time that the OHF and Hockey Canada takes a stand against these incompetent fools.....



Play hard, play fair


The Diceman

instead of 3?
Funny how it's ok by US Hockey but not the OW.
Looks like a trip tp Detroit or Rochester is on my schedule
cause it was the best Hockey of the year last year.

I believe that this tourney will still take place with or without the OWHA.....



Play hard, play fair


The Diceman

Perhaps it had something to do with they have too many tournaments and other association wanted to run tournaments as well.

Not only will they not sanction this tournament.....any Canadian teams wanting to travel to Detroit or Rochester to particpate in the other USA/Canada Challenge tournaments will not receive travel sanction from the OWHA.

Time for Hockey Canada to get involved

Well I have told everyone on here many times that these individuals have to go many times......defend this OWHA and supporters.



What are they going to do next......it truly is scary of what they are capable of doing.....what the net effect will be is that the OWHA are only digging their own grave.

My next question is.....what is Hockey Canada waiting for?



Play hard, play fair


The Diceman

i wonder if US teams will be banned from the LLFHL?
by their way of reason, they should be.

I'll bite.

If the OW is not sanctioning this event because SC already has two big Intermediate and Midget tournaments then I'd say they made the right decision

I don't know why they would prevent teams from attending a US tournament. That sets a bad precedent.

The OWHA first said that they are not Sanctioning this event because it was on during the week and then later said that it was because they are already operating another tourney with the same age groups.


I heard this last year....that they would not sanction this event and the simply reason is that they invited US teams. They are if the information is correct refusing to grant a travel permit to the US to take part in any other such Challenge series.

Also can you please defend your statement or opinion that they made the right decision.....if it is based on the fact that Stoney is already hosting teams from the same age groups and levels.

This is not a Tourney but a event that places top teams against top teams from the US to showcase our players from the invited teams.

Also what is wrong with them running multiple events at the same aged group......it is the teams that pay to go and the OWHA makes a profit from these events.

They have overstep their authority here in a very large way!



Play hard, play fair


The Diceman

Really simple call the OHF and complain enough people do and it will be sent to HC and all this will go away and Tourny is on......maybe just maybe another organization has to host it but does that really matter as long as its run well?

Dice,

I don't think the previous writer needs to defend the opinion that one association does not have a right to host multiple tournaments. There are only so many dates on the calendar. It seems obvious to me that tournament dates need to be shared .

And to try to argue that the second one isn't really a tournament is kind of weak. How is it different from an invitational tournament?

Of course the line about "top teams" is self-indulgent. Of the 4 MAA teams from LL at the '08 Challenge Cup, only 1 team qualifying for the event made it out of their pool at the '09 Provincials. And the "top teams" from the US (U-16) didn't fair all that well as only one of the 4 maked it to their nationals.

So to use the argument about the best playing the best rings a bit hollow. But then again they must have been good teams because they were invited to a select event. Well, SC got to go as host so maybe it wasn't all that select. Guess it really was just another invitational tournament.

Yes you are right that there are only so many dates.....but it is not the OWHA jobs to control the amount of tourneys that an association hosts.

The OWHA role is to ensure that the tourneys are run according to the rules and nothing more.

Why should tournament dates need to be shared? You run a tourney that is well run and provides value for money and teams will come. You fail to provide value for money and teams will not......this is all about choice.

The USA/Canada Challenge was a successful event and the fact of who the host choose to invite is not relevant to this discussion.

I am on here merely defending Stoney's right to run this event again.....and not to discuss the merits of the teams that were invited.







Play hard, play fair


The Diceman

So the OW has no role in deciding on when or where tournaments should be played?

Maybe there is a need for the OW to provide some oversight in an effort to spread the tournaments around geographically? Frankly I don't think any association should hold two tournaments for the same age group in one year. At the same time I think the OW is dumb to make decisions that come across as heavy-handed and vindictive.

Does anyone know if there are any rules in place for sanctioning tournaments? We can assume that there is a self-evident "grandmother" rule that says that if Tournament X has always been held on Feb. 30 then they can keep that date . But if a new associations wants to have a tournament on that same date is there anything to stop them? And is there a rule somewhere about limiting the number of tournament an association can host or about invitational tournaments?

There are no rules in the OWHA constitution that allows the OWHA to make a decision such as this. There is no maximum events that an association can host rule. Nor is there any specific rule about an invitational tourney ( by the way all tournaments are invitational ).

Then for further punishment withhold sanctioning on the Bantam/Peewee event that they ran last year as punishment for questioning them is again a factual sign of my claim that they are a dictatorship who will stop at nothing to ensure that it is their way.





Play hard, play fair


The Diceman

Never thought I'd say this but Dice is right on this one. This is not right. The OW has no right to tell me or anyone else what tournament my daughter can and cannot attend. They have no right to tell me my daughter can't go to a tournament on a weekday. My daughter was very fortunate last year to play in the Stoney MAA Showcase in September and have her team invited to the Challenge Cup in December. For those of you who weren't there, the Challenge Cup was the best female hockey at both the MAA and IAA level I've ever seen. I have a hunch that one or more organizations did some wining to the OW. Maybe this/these organizations should sit down with the fine folks in Stoney and find out how to run a good tournament. My daughter now plays IAA and I hope to god the OW reconsiders the Dec. Tournaments. If they don't, them Dice is right, it's time for a huge change in the OW and it should start right at the top, for they have lost sight of what this is for, the girls. Since both tournaments were approved last year but turned down this year, would Stoney have a legal right to sew for damages. Any legal begals in the house?

You may want to check your rules. There are certain rules you do have to follow when running an OWHA sanctioned tournament. You have to accept any team that applies from Ontario at the sacntioned category into the tourney if they apply before the deadline and the tourney is not full. Pretty sure you cannot deny an Ontario IAA applicant into a IAA tourney in favor of a US applicant. So you see the sword can fall both ways. Have a restricted invitational can lead to others denied requests to ask the OW to follow to rules as they are written in the tourney annals of the OW. Those rules have been around for quite some time. You can argue that it is time to change them, but that requires lobbying, not bitching and complaining on this forum.

I think that you best check the rules....the only rule that I can remember that is restrictive towards a team is the rule that states that you must take a team from the same category (ie AA) over a team from another Category (A)....there is nothing in the constitution ( rule 2 tournaments) that states that you must take an Ontario team over an US team.



Play hard, play fair


The Diceman

But technically speaking the US does not have U21 (IAA) nor U17 (MAA) classifications. They also have this concept of tournament teams vs national bound teams, something that does not exist in Ontario.

As a former tourney organiser know there is a lot of lesser know rules to deal with. Usually not a problem, as they afre often missed by many tournaments, but they do not cause any uproar until problems arise, or someone complains. As someone said earlier, there were probably some behind the scenes discussions before it go to this point.

And for what it is worth, IMHO the Stoney tournaments are all class events and I hope they will find a way to solve this problem so they can run them as per plans.

According to my daughters coach, one of the reasons given by the OWHA for not sanctioning the SC Dec. Challenge Cup was the they (OWHA) do not sanction tournaments through the week. What the hell does that mean. The last time I looked, the OW has 6 tournaments listed on their website that start Thursday or earlier.

That was the first reason that they gave....when questioned further they then went to the two tourneys by the same in the same age group nonsense.


Also just to clear it up.....there are no rules at all to prevent this. No lessor known rules etc. The OWHA Constitution is on the OWHA web site.



Play hard, play fair


The Diceman

just maybe, SC's competitors are behind?? A person or people who have OWHA's ears...

from someone who wasn't invited I bet?

And that adds a whole lot of nothing to the discussion. Let's see, 3 Ont. teams were invited so the odds of me having a daughter who was on one of the 3 teams is about 3 in 800. So just about anybody posting on here would likely fall into the category of not having been invited. But to make you feel good about yourself, no my daughter's team was not invited. However, she did not play MAA last year either so your point is spurious.

it would be unfortunate not to have this tourney
as it was by far the best hockey of the year. If it is cancelled is SSM, the US national champs, scheduled to play anywhere else in southern ontario?
Chicago & LC are at the showcase but not SSM

It is to early in the year for SSM to attend the showcase. They are a school and the selection process for their team will not yet be completed or just completed at the time of the showcase.



Play hard, play fair


The Diceman

I am requesting that everyone contact Fran about this decision lets flood her with e mails.


her e mail address is fran@owha.on.ca


They are telling Stoney Creek that their decision is not open for appeal. Can you say dictatorship!


Just to show Stoney Creek that they mean business the OWHA have also have not sanction their Bantam/Peewee Showcase this year!

So contact Fran and tell her that this decision is not acceptable.



Play hard, play fair


The Diceman

You know as well as anyone that no one will do so as you will get your own daughter or your own situation compromised if you are a coach trainer etc.
Been there done it.....Contacting the OHF I think would be a much better idea.....if they get enough heat they will bring it down on Fran.

What if we want to go and play a weekend series of 2 or 3 games in the states against SSM or LC and then a month later they come up here...home and home.
The OW is now going to be our scheduler and decide wether or not we can do that?