My source states that during a hockey game a parent yelled at a Official something along the lines of " there are two teams on the ice ref" at which point the individual was tossed from the stands. Then a short while later a few other parent of the team were also tossed from the game while the play was going on. No waiting for a natural stoppage of play? Goes to show the experence level of the official not that this excuses the behaviour.

I was told that the executive came to their next game and parents from their opponents got tossed from that game but none from the Bantam RSL team did. Then they have been told that they all have to sign some behaviour contract or their daughters team will get suspended from league play if they all fail to do so. This is in violation of your own rules as I see nothing that would allow you to punish the players for the behaviour of their parents.

I am writting you as I see this as a fair play issue and not a team/player issue. By threatening the parents with removal of the whole team if all parents do not sign this contract you have effectively used bullying tactics to control the issue rather then natural consequences. Punish the offenders and not the children, it would be a very poor example of goverence. Common sense needs to prevail.

I myself would never sign a behaviour contract like this as it is an admission of guilt and limits my options should someone who I have no control over chooses to speak their minds.


the above is what I sent by e mail to the ODWHA to seek their side of this issue.

I believe that if they follow through with their threat to suspend the team that they would be on shaky grounds....they are acting like bullies......punish the offenders not the innocent 13 and 14 year old players!




Play hard, play fair


The Diceman

How about the innocent parents having to sign? They did noyhing wrong yet are being forced to sign a document that states their daughter will be expelled from the league if any other parent acys up again. Also the wording is such that anyone could lodge a complaint against the organization and have them expelled.

Come on hockey people. No comment or advice on this one

You want advice? Here it is. Keep your mouth shut while in the stands, unless you're actually doing something positive...like cheering on your child.

If you don't act like a jackass in the stands, organizations won't be forced to make you sign good behavior pledges. Simple as that.

...here we go.

Rulebook,

Gear down big rig.....the issue is not the parents it is the threat to banish the players.

The ODWHA are acting like bullies.....

It would be like you as a ref calling penalties on a player because you heard the parent say something about you. ( I have seen a ref do this, classless)

The parents who act out at an arena should be held accountable if it is seen as necessary but not by kicking a team out of the league.



Play hard, play fair


The Diceman

Should I keep my mouth shut like you seem to be able to do. Ha Ha Ha. Your a great example of why any one loses it to begin with.

Here's a link to the ODWHA site re-affirming behaviour guidelines. There's no mention of signing a form of any kind.

http://odwha.goalline.ca//news2.php?news_id=496486=

Stirring the pot on rumour and without concrete evidence is just plain foolish.

JAD

The team in question has the document you can be assured. Sent from the odwha. They are singling out one team from what they are saying is an escalating problem in the whole odwha.

Not a rumor JAD, but real.

They have overstep their authority by threatening to remove the whole team if every parent did not sign the document by tomorrow. The letter is real. They posted the link above on their web site after they sent a letter to the effected team asking them all to sign the letter by today or else!





Play hard, play fair


The Diceman

Just wondering if you would sign such a letter.....I know I would not. Holding the players hockey season as ransom is not an effective solution to issues such as these.

You warn the offending parent (s) in writing and if they offend again you remove their right from attending the games that their daughter plays.




Play hard, play fair


The Diceman

"the issue is not the parents it is the threat to banish the players"

How is the issue not the parents? If the parents behave, there is no threat that needs to be made. In my experience, the ODWHA is a pretty level-headed organization. If they're resorting to this, then they see a serious problem developing.

Why did you choose to respond to only one part of my post? Well I know that answer....it supports your stand.....in the same post I also said "The parents who act out at an arena should be held accountable if it is seen as necessary but not by kicking a team out of the league."


The one parent who acts out should be held accountable but not the team or the other parents.....is that so hard to understand.

Here maybe if I put it this way you will understand......I am the RIC and I send out an e mail stating that from now on if one of the assigned Officials are not at the arena 30 minutes before the scheduled game time no Officials will be paid for the game and further more I will fire all refs if you do not sign the attached acknowledgment giving me the right to do this.

This is what they have done.....you would not sign this as you can not control what others do.



Play hard, play fair


The Diceman

They have had player/parent/coach respect for the game type letters at the start of each season for all teams in the OD for a while. Was already in place whne our D were still playing in the OD. (Now 3 plus years ago).

I agree with the Ref/Rulebook poster. If you can't say anything nice/encouraging to your team, or the opponent for that matter, in the rink, keep your trap closed. It is as simple as that.

I'm sure that there was a precedence/pre warning.

Bet no one one has ever accused you of being real quick to grasp things. Dice has tried numerous times to try to explain. Yes the parents of this team are guilty as charged but thats not the issue. The 13 and 14 year old girls did nothing wrong yet (they the owdha) are going to suspend them. So if you were charged with an offence by the police would it be okay to let your 13 or 14 year old daughter take the rap for you? Right didn't think so.

No one, including me is condoning the behaviour of a parent who verbal attacks anyone at an arena. There is no place in hockey for this conduct.

The point was and still is....that the ODWHA has mishandled the whole issue.

They want every parent/coach/executive member on the team to sign an behaviour contract which is additional to the fair play agreement that all parents/players/executive members sign at the start of the year by tomorrow and if Every Parent does not do so "the team will not be permitted to participate in any league games."


If all parents signed a fair play code at the start of the season then enforce it against any parent/player/coach etc that contravenes the fair play code. Not place sanctions against innocent players and parents.

The wording of the agreement makes me concerned as well: Please consider this to be your formal notice that if any further contravention of the Fair Play Code by parents is observed or reported, the Rideau St. Lawrence Bantam AA team will be indefinitely suspended from league play pending a disciplinary hearing.

What do the players have to do with the way their parents act at an arena? Nothing. The burden of proof is also scary....observed? By who? reported ? by whom?

Poor solution to an easy problem, suspend or prevent the offending parent(s) from attending any games and then if they persist consider different avenues.

Common sense.....apparently is not all to common.

I also do not care if there has been other parent issues previously as the point is that they need to address the offenders and leave the innocent players and parents alone!








Play hard, play fair


The Diceman

Dice you summed it up perfectly. That is the issue right on the money.The ace card the ODWHA play's is they know most parents on the team just want the document signed so their kids can play. So any parent that drags their feet about signing hears about it from other parents. We will see if the puck drops tomorrow.

And then contrevened that agreement. You want the offending parents
banned but who is going to enforce that? The league must up the ante
since these boneheads don't know how to behave and unfortunately the
Only power the league has is to ban the team.
I think you, Dice, of all people would not want them to create the 'OD police '
to enforce banned parents from attending a game!

I do not care what they do to parents....but leave the players alone is my point! Seems to make sense to me.

Here are other things that they could do:

Fine the parents
Have them (parents) put up a bond
fine the organization
band the offenders
call the police

anything other then taking away the players right to play.






Play hard, play fair


The Diceman

It hopefully will act as a motivation for the parents to behave, similar to bag skating the whole team because of the actions of one player.

Require somebody to enforce them. How do you keep someone out of a
public arena? Do you think the police have the resources to be settling every argument
at a rink?
If the idea of your kid not being able to play can't stop you from acting like an idiot
then then nothing will.

The analogy of a bag skate does not fit as it is not the team that is an issue.....and no good coach bag skates a whole team, for the actions of one player.....that is what the bench is for.

So are you in favour of your daughters team being removed from the league if another parent can not keep their mouth shut?

That is what is been done with the letter they were asked to sign. I would not have signed that.....never.



Play hard, play fair


The Diceman

yup and if there is a break and enter in your home town tonight and the police run out of options trying to catch the crooks arrest the whole town that way you should have the guilty party right? Wow!

Oh I get it now. Is that like in kindergarden when someone misbehaves and the whole class gets punished. I think some of you people spent to many years there.

Now I was not there so I can only speculate, but by yelling out "there are 2 teams on the ice ref" does not constitute an ejection in my opinion. Maybe there was something leading up to that the ejection, I don't know.

Now while I don't condone abusive behavior, is it possible that these parents are fed up with the God like complexes of some of these referees. Their holier than thou attitudes combined with their lack of refereeing ability can begin to wear on even the best parents. Don't get me wrong, there are good referees out there but the poor outweigh the good. Like I said, I wasn't there...this is just my opinion.

Oh and I would never sign that piece of paper

Unfortunately all the parents of the team took their anger and frustration out on each other instead of the ODWHA and some parents were certain the team would be expelled if the document was not signed. So in the end everyone signed. It sickens me and I can't help feeling they just signed their death warrent as a team. Now the ODWHA have a signed document that states any more bad behavior and said team is expelled from league.

of teams being banned/sanctioned due to crowd behaviour. This has been commonplace in Europe in Soccer for decades.

Utimately the team's staff and its parent org is reponsible for ensuring that all members of the team (and that includes parents) followed the rules and behaviour conduct guidelines. Everyone signs a "contract" to that effect at the start of the year as a requirement to have the "Priviledge" to play in the league.

If things get to a state as they appear to have in this case, I'm sure there were some incidents leading up to it, and that there was probably a warning given to the team via the exec levels prior to this action, putting them on notice.

You win as a team, lose as a team and behave as a team. It is always the obvious apples that give a team it's identity, whether perceived or real. If a coach or team cannot control it's parent's behaviour then IMHO the league has a the full right to address this however they see fit. I'm sure there is a clause in the constitution/rules to deal with "special circumstances" or to apply "further disciplinary action at the discretion off the exec".

The comparison you offer up is ludicrous.....crazed fans rioting in the stands and on the soccer pitch vs a parent yelling at a ref.

My self as a coach this would have never got to this point. I would have clearly explained to the parent(s) that their presence would not be required at a game if they persisted with acting like an idiot.

This is a over reaction by the League period! There is nothing in their rules or constitution that allows them to act in this manner.

The whole team signed the document as pressure was put on the few who did not want to sign a document that would cause their daughter to be kicked out of the league as a result of behaviour that they can not control.

A ref if he feels that the fans are getting out of control he/she simply needs to skate over to the home and visitors bench and ask them to handle the situation. If it persists he stops the game until the offenders are removed. He notes on the game sheet the event and sends this to the league.

The league sends out a letter to the Organization of the offending team and instructs them to deal with this issue now.

The organization has a meeting with the parents outlining their expectations and the consequences of their behaviour. Any further display of unacceptable behaviour and you will be band from attending games. They know who the parent(s) are so enforcing this is easy. If the parent is band and they still stay and watch the game then call the police to have them removed if necessary. It is at this point that this parents daughter's hockey season would be in question. Not the whole team.

No need to threaten the team or all the parents because of the actions of one or two parents.

What happened now is bullying.....and the whole team will suffer the consequence if they receive any complaint or they observe any actions.



Play hard, play fair


The Diceman

I played Comp soccer in Europe for 8 years back in the early and mid 70's. These regulations were in place for minor and amateur soccer as well, not just for the Pro's.

I've seen teams banned from playing home games, cause a spectator threw stuff onto the pitch.

One word out of your mouth against a ref, and you had a yellow, followed by sitting two games. Rules were very stringent.

I stay with my premise, that if teams or their fans can't follow the rules, even after a warning or a reminder, the league is in it's full right to deal with it as they see fit. It is still a priviledge to play in the league, not a right.

JMO.

If you were talking to me, you are barking up the wrong tree.

You failed to get my point. It appears to me that a team did not follow the rules they and their memebers agreed upon in writing at the start of the season, hence they face the consequences.

I give you a similar counter analogy to yours. Your teenaged kid drives a vehicle on your policy. This means if he or she is in an accident, it is you who is responsible for paying. Now you can elect to have your kid paid for it, or whatever, but it comes back to you the ultimate person accountable.

Similary, a coach is held responsible for the actions of his or her team, and their behaviour. The team and their parents represent the team and the association. If team members or their parents do not follow the rules, the accountablility ultimately falls back on the coach. The coach can elect to deal with it by banning the offender(s), BUT if the coach cannot control this, or chooses not to deal with it, then actions can be meted out against the whole team, not just the coach.

If the behaviour in the stands is illegal to the point that the police is involved, you can get into legal action against a parent, and things take care of themselves. But most of these type of cases are not illegal by law, then the only way to deal with such matters would be measures by the league agains the association or the team. Not sure about law, but it would be hard for the league to start enforcing keeping individual parents from the rink, so they meet out team sanctions or ground rules to address the situation.

It's true that parents have signed over their rights if the bad apple resurfaces. However - there will be a lot of peer pressure on the trouble parents so you would expect things to stay under control. HOWEVER - what if the parent in question has issues with alcohol, and slips up one night - the entire team suffers for this?????

Smarty Pantzz

You are correct it is a privilege to play in the league, but that privilege should not be taken away from the players because one parent will not sign a contract, nor should the league threaten the action of removing the whole team because of the behaviour of one or a few adults. The offending adults should be the individuals who should have the consequences applied to them.

Again you example does not fit I've seen teams banned from playing home games, cause a spectator threw stuff onto the pitch.

That is a dangerous and unsafe environment you are talking about......here it is a person telling a Ref to call the game fair, maybe questioning their ability. If the fans are tossing things on the ice......then the game is over and we are talking about the teams future as it is unsafe for all participants that are on the ice.



Play hard, play fair


The Diceman

Or how about, If someone from another team simply states that a parents said something to them.....it does not have to be true under the terms of the letter this team is suspended pending a discipline hearing.




Play hard, play fair


The Diceman