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I am having a lot of trouble defining "personal attacks" on this forum.

March 13 2009 at 2:57 AM
Finance Department  (Login Finance_Department)
Veteran Member

Response to No attacks

I could, for example, mention Mr. (Dr.?) Sparks in the context of the web page info he is not now delivering, a copy of which is attached below, and some might conclude that it is an "attack". How, merely because I mentioned his name??

Can we no longer, on CF, talk about things unless we exclude the names of people who are attached to those things?

And how can we truly talk about some things having to do with individual persons, without mentioning them?

I agree it does no good, and only bad, for people to trash each other with invective and hatred. This should not be allowed here.

But to say that an "attack" is a mere mention of someone's name, is pretty much censorship. And I really, really, really don't like seeing my posts and those of others above me in a thread, deleted.

I invite a reply from the Forum Owner.


http://www.oregoncryo.com/services.htm DEFUNCT


We currently offer the following services:

The purpose of a standby is to be ready to immediately provide stabilization and cool down upon legal death. This would typically involve sitting at a hospital in the Salem area with equipment ready to use. If the standby is prolonged, we may need to charge a fee. Our available equipment is currently minimal, but at least we can provide chest compressions, an ice bath, and advocacy. A short standby would be on a volunteer basis, but a longer standby would probably need to be paid.

For patients who have planned ahead and are signed up with the Cryonics Institute in Michigan or with Alcor in Arizona, we can help arrange shipping. Both of those companies have been around for decades. There are currently about 180 patients in storage, evenly divided between the two facilities. We can provide pickup from the hospital, stabilization, and cool down with ice. We do not charge any fees for these services. We are not able to provide any postmortem services in Vancouver, Washington because the laws are different there. A funeral director would be required in Washington. We currently have only minimal Equipment and do not consider ourselves fully prepared. There are many areas right now where we need improvement. Specifically, we are not familiar enough with the paperwork process, including the death certificate and burial permit. Also, a paid funeral director will still need to be involved in order to ship by airline.

We plan to offer the following services very soon:

Pet Cryopreservation
Neuro only. Straight freeze only for now. Priced proportionally by weight compared to human. Information to follow soon.

Next of Kin Cryopreservation
This is a cryopreservation arranged by the next of kin. This is a very inexpensive and low-tech option which is obviously NOT ideal, but could still be preserving a significant amount of information in the person's brain. Please understand that we currently do not provide any cryoprotective perfusion, so significant freezing damage is being done during the cool down process to liquid Nitrogen temp. But there are a number of situations such as autopsies where perfusion is not possible anyway. Also, if cost would otherwise prevent someone from obtaining cryopreservation, then a straight freeze is certainly better than nothing at all. We are working hard to be able to provide perfusion services in the near future. Please also be aware that we only cryopreserve the head because our goal is to preserve the information in the brain. The body is cremated.

$2000 Cryopreservation Fee: Covers initial cost of equipment and cooldown.
$500/yr Maintenance Fee: Paid once per year in advance.
$12,000 Maintenance Fund: Paid separately from the Maintenance Fee. Optional. Once the fund reaches the full amount, the Maintenance Fee is no longer required.

Some comments about the fees: The minimum fee up front is $2000, which is a drastic departure from the fee structure of all other current cryonics organizations. Total cost for perpetual care would be $14,000. Perfusion, once available, will raise the initial cost. Although we are non-profit, we are not tax exempt, so we have to pay taxes first on the $12,000 maintenance fund, and can only put the after tax amount into savings to generate perpetual income. The Maintenance Fee and Fund will be able to be lowered quite a bit if we see any significant volume of customers. They are abnormally high due to the inefficiencies of storing small amounts of liquid Nitrogen. Also notice that there is no such thing yet as "membership". There is not a membership fee, and we don't currently plan on ever having one.

Chemical Fixation
Low cost and good initial quality. The initial structural preservation achieved with chemical fixation is unmatched and can even be superior to cryopreservation. This is distinct from embalming since the goal is brain preservation rather than cosmetic preservation. The fluid is pumped in at a lower pressure and for a longer period of time in an effort to achieve complete penetration. The brain, with part of the skull removed, is then bathed in fixative to complete the preservation.

Possible disadvantages of chemical fixation: Storage is at room temperature, so the molecules are still free to move about. All that is stopping them are cross-links created by the fixative. But not all molecule types are able to form cross-links, and cross-links can break. Over time, there is likely to be some degradation, although nobody knows how much. The degradation could be very significant considering the number of decades that will pass. This could, in theory, be prevented by following chemical fixation with cryopreservation. But no protocol has been worked out or tested.

Here are a few more articles discussing chemical fixation:

Some claim that such brains will need to remain preserved for longer, because higher technology will be required to eliminate all the cross-links. But those people who are currently being cryopreserved are already sustaining damage that will require some very advanced technology to repair, something similar to molecular nanotechnology. So our opinion is that there would be no difference in wait time. The remaining objections to chemical fixation have to do mostly with perception. These include, "It seems more like mortuary science than medical science", "It does not provide a continuum from current medical technology", and "cryopreserved tissue is intrinsically closer to normal biological condition". In spite of these objections, chemical fixation remains a good option for those who cannot afford cryopreservation.

Fee: $1200, $500 of which will go into a maintenance fund to generate perpetual income for maintenance. We provide permanent storage. Please note that this does not include any funeral director fees, which will always be required in addition to our fee.

Risks with all procedures
There are some additional risks which customers should be aware of.
1. Legally untested. Alcor and CI have been established much longer and have more legal precedent.
2. Fire. The building we are currently using does not have fire protection. Rectifying this is a high priority.
3. No buffer. Our prices are so low that there is no buffer for legal fees, significant cost increases, etc.
4. Less expertise. We do not have PhD's on staff who are validating our protocol.
5. Stability. While the longevity of Oregon Cryonics has not yet been proven, the director is still only 37 years old and likely has many productive years ahead of him. He has a long track record with his two other successfull companies, and the funds in Oregon Cryonics are legally protected by its non-profit status.

Customers must understand and accept these risks. Some of these risks can be mitigated by providing funding above the minimum amount. Donations are always welcome.

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