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begging the question

October 12 2010 at 8:52 PM
Robert Ettinger  (Login R_Ettinger)
Veteran Member

 
I tried to post this as a response on the other thread, but wasn't able to for some reason.

See below.

More rich irony. Luke accuses me of begging the question, and then writes:

[Ettinger]In other words, an object can lack the physical features of a hydrogen atom and still "be" a hydrogen atom??!!

[Parrish] That is indeed the very premise I have started with.

So, Luke explicitly admits that his conclusion is his premise!

I, on the other hand, have not begged the question. I have given explicit, observable reasons for my conclusions.

Luke also now writes: "Suppose we go with Robert's logic that a hydrogen atom is defined by its features. What then does one call the subset of a hydrogen atom's features which are not directly spacial and temporal?"

First, other than defining something by its features, is there another way to define it?

Second, you can call a subset anything you want, such as Matilda or hey you--it can't complain. But it's not clear what features of a hydrogen atom he means that are not spatial and temporal.

How about a few more people chiming in?

Robert Ettinger
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Defined by its features
October 12 2010 at 7:46 PM
Luke Parrish (Login lsparrish)
Veteran Member


Response to getting somewhere

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I say now we're getting somewhere in the sense that, unless I have lost all my marbles, very few now will fail to see Luke's egregious fallacies.

Robert has been begging the question from the start of this discussion, and now wishes to point out my "egregious" fallacies...? Really?

In other words, an object can lack the physical features of a hudrogen atom and still "be" a hydrogen atom??!!

That is indeed the very premise I have started with. Apparently Robert is shocked, simply shocked, by the very idea that anyone might define anything other than a normal physical hydrogen atom as being a real hydrogen atom.

You take away its features from a hydrogen atom and it is still a hydrogen atom??!! Aside from the illogic of that, there is no way you can take features away from a hydrogen atom without changing it into something else. It is defined by its features.

Suppose we go with Robert's logic that a hydrogen atom is defined by its features. What then does one call the subset of a hydrogen atom's features which are not directly spacial and temporal?



 
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