Believe it or not I find other discussion lists more interesting than
this one, but I could not resist taking a new look. Partly I think
this is like a tendency to eat junk food or watch bad TV, but also it
is because I do have some interest in cryonics and I cannot believe
that two people who say they, too, are seriously interested will
behave as they do.

I just finished reading an aviation list where people are
discussing the crash of a 777 at Heathrow. Everyone is polite. Some
people are not qualified as engineers but they SAY SO. No one says, "I
demand a response to my questions, from Boeing, even though I know
nothing about aviation and never fly on airplanes!" No one says, "I am
fully qualified race-car tire-inflator with VAST experience, which
makes me an expert on plane crashes." No one says, "The CEO of Boeing
is obviously an idiot who didn't understand how to spend money on
testing airplanes."

Don't you see? This is what you two are doing here, making
fools of yourselves. Probably this is why people have given up
responding to you, except for Platt who still likes to stand up
with the sign saying "KICK ME" on his back. His motive is a
mystery because he did not answer my question about that.

You two didn't answer my questions either. Maxim says she did, but
this is simply a lie: She did not answer and she knows she did not
answer. I hate it when people lie to me. I asked

1. Where she obtained qualifications.
2. Where she worked.
3. Why she won't reveal this basic information.

She chose not to respond. Why not?

For FD I asked

1. Does he have an MBA or other business related qualifications
2. Has he ever run a small business.
3. Has he ever visited a cryonics organization.

He responded that he could be a critic without having any
qualifications. Well okay but--

Looks to me as if the two loud voices seem to have a double standard.
They think everyone should be professional, except them. FD makes
angry demands for personal attention from Saul Kent as if FD
regards himself as the most important person in the universe, even
though he has not made any arrangements for cryonics himself. Maxim
delivers a flow of personal insults and maliciouc gossip that makes E!
look like The New York Times. What I'm saying is both of them behave
UNprofessionally and neither of them has professional qualifications
in cryonics or in business. They simply dont know what they are
talking about, so far as I can see.

"Alcor & Saul Kent Think They Don't Have to Answer Anybody" says FD.
No darling, they just think they don't have to answer to YOU.

As I say ... it is very embarrassing.

"Platt who still likes to stand up with the sign saying "KICK ME" on his back. His motive is a mystery because he did not answer my question about that."

Light criticism against Charles, long ranting against everyone else... Seems like you're Charles Platt.

#1 melody did answer you - her website has all that info:

"I have a BS in Allied Health Science and a Certificate in Perfusion Technology from Baylor College of Medicine. Following my graduation, I worked as a Certified Clinical Perfusionist with the same cardiovascular surgery group for nine years."
-- http://blogger.com/profile/01352014895064762853

#2 George Bush has an MBA, Bill Gates left the adult tutoring program. Lots of great people learned on their own. Like Abe Lincoln:

"Abe Lincoln’s Self-Study Route to Law Practice a Vanishing Option"

"The best-known self-taught lawyer is Abraham Lincoln, who borrowed books from a fellow state legislator and then practiced law in Illinois before becoming one of the nation's most renowned presidents"
-- http://abajournal.com/news/abe_lincolns_route_to_law_practice_a_vanishing_option/

Thanks so much Edward for solving the mystery of Maxim's qualifications. How was I supposed to know she put it on a blog? I certainly did not see her answer my question in her response here. Anyway now we know she was a perfusionist, many years ago, at one clinic in Louisiana. So much for her VAST experience.

Of course this still doesn't mean she has any knowledge about cryonics. If she was really interested she would do some training, as I believe the cryonics organizations offer this. HAs she ever taken a training course? HAs she ever studied emergency medicine? If not, I think this makes her less knowledgable than a golf pro, doesn't it?

As for qualifications, I would have thought experience and training are more important. FD and Maxim are the ones obsessed with qualifications. But they apply different standards to themselves. That's my point. And then they act as if they are experts even though theyhave never done any work in cryonics cases. As I point out to you once again, this makes a really bad impression. It makes this list look like a playpen for children who act out because no one pays enough attention to them.

I did not mention Platt or anyone else much this time around because Maxim and FD seem to be the loud voices currently who try to dominate this forum. I did not like the way they responded to my earlier posts. If you want to show me some embarrassing Platt posts, or embarrassing posts of your own, I will take a look.

It's amusing that this seems to be such a small field, you and others have to assume I must be someone you already know. I'm not.

Charles: "But they apply different standards to themselves. That's my point."

They're demanding medical training. There's a huge difference between that & training for things you can learn on your own. (almost anything else...)

Business for example - who'd you want running a business? Bill Gates or George Bush? (the Yale MBA.)

And frankly you have the writing style of someone who's written fiction their whole life:

Charles: "Believe it or not I find other discussion lists more interesting than this one, but I could not resist taking a new look. Partly I think this is like a tendency to eat junk food or watch bad TV, but also it is because I do have some interest in cryonics"

And you have an obviously fake name. (Who calls themselves Sally anymore?) It all just adds to my belief that you're Charles Platt.

Unlike you, I won't say you were lying, but your reading skills are sloppy. In this post, in the thread you were referring to:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/291677/message/1209487213/

... I answered your question about whether I've visited any cryonics organizations. I gave you an explanation that is quite reasonable to anyone in the business world as to whether I even need any qualifications or not, to demand a certain level of quality in the services I purchase, whether from a cryonics organization or anywhere else. In that post, I even pointed you to Maxim's blog where she gives her educational background.

And now as to your three questions to me in your post today, you have adequately reworded them so that I can honestly answer all three of them "Yes". You still don't know whether I have a MBA or not.

Now are you happy, Sally?

BTW, I am not swallowing the idea that you can speak for Saul Kent or Alcor on their reasons for refusing to come here and answer our questions. Or is it that you indeed can speak for them? - if so, kindly identify yourself so we can review your credentials in that regard.

A final thought - while there are not a lot of us speaking up and asking the questions that need to be asked, I can tell you I do so because I believe there are dozens if not hundreds of others who have the same questions and for whatever reasons particular to themselves, do not get around to asking them, at least in a public forum. The cryonics providers have an obligation to the public here, to address our legitimate concerns. So far only one, Cryonics Institute, has enough respect for us to come here and do that.

Cheers,

FD

FD sounds so reasonable when he responds to me, it makes me wonder if there are two of him. All right let's suppose there is only one and he is being sincere. Here is a recent post which is the kind of thing am complaining about:

"As typical, with your situation, Alcor makes full use of its cozy setup whereby the members have no rights and the finger can be given to the public. They truly don't have to answer anything, and don't. They are clueless to the fact this gives them really bad PR impressions."

Don't you see how bad this looks? All those phrases which are nasty for no reason. "cozy setup" "no rights" "finger can be given" "clueless" "dont answer to anything." And you talk about creating a bad PR impression, isn't that what you are doing right here? No one pays attention to people who seem so sour, it makes their judgment untrustworthy. Maybe if you sounded more reasonable as you do to me, you wouldn't have to complain about people ignoring your comments.

"Alcor and Kent have both had the whole weekend and over one business day to reply to legitimate questions relative to their respective companies. Not a single word yet from either."

Wow, they didn't answer you over the weekend and one business day! But why should they? You aren't a member, you hide your identity, your business knowledge is questionable, you never worked in cryonics, you haven't visited a cryonics organization, and youre writing in a tiny web discussion list which is read by maybe 50 people. Any wacky guy (or gal) who does this is supposed to deserve a PROMPT answer from busy people? Be realistic.

"Kent ... has two seats on Alcor's self-re-electing board,"

This does not even seem possible.

"a blatant conflict of interest with his own company Suspended Animation Inc. in that both they and Alcor are in the standby business."

Oh is Kent making money out of cryonics? I thought you were complaining that Kent throws his money away! Isn't he like someone who has a position in two different charities? I think that is probably common enough.

"I wonder if Kent is the problem? Is he the reason both of these companies don't feel like they have to say squat to the public if they don't want to?"

Plase name a company that WOULD answer your rude rants!

"Maybe it is that cryonicists are always so hush hush about Kent because he's the money man."

This is all such silly stuff, like kids having fantasies about what their teachers get up to after hours. Who is hush-hush? I think you should name some names if you want to be taken seriously. Who have you called asking for info about Mr. Kent? What did they say or refuse to say to you?

As for Edward, you are such a hoot. "No one is called Sally anymore." Even people who were named Sally 40 or 50 years ago? Did they change their names out of embarrassment?

FD: "As typical, with your situation, Alcor makes full use of its cozy setup whereby the members have no rights and the finger can be given to the public. They truly don't have to answer anything, and don't. They are clueless to the fact this gives them really bad PR impressions."

There's nothing "nasty" about this paragraph. It's completely accurate.

And frankly "Sally," going after an anonymous person's credentials looks foolish.

But here I go again. You said "Maybe if you sounded more reasonable as you do to me, you wouldn't have to complain about people ignoring your comments."

Doesn't work - I've been trying it on public forums like this one for years now. All I have left is what you view as "sour" or "rude" and I merely view it as blunt and to the point. How you or I or anyone else views the tone of any questions or comments, though, is quite beside the point. The point being that if cryonics companies want to be trusted and respected, they need to communicate the basis for any trust and respect. Those who do not, do not deserve our business; indeed, their motives are suspect. If the only answer they can give to uncomfortable questions is to send people to Cold Filter to try to squelch the discussion, I'm afraid that answer just won't do, Sally.

"...you haven't visited a cryonics organization..."

I have answered you twice now already, this now is the third time, I HAVE visited one or more of them. Your failure to pay attention tells us a lot about how well informed you are and whether you even care to be.

"This does not even seem possible."

Saul Kent plus Brian Wowk = 2 seats for Kent on Alcor's board, or are you really too gullible and naive to discern that? Oh wait, the answer is consistent with your other instances of simply not paying attention.

"Isn't he like someone who has a position in two different charities? I think that is probably common enough."

More uninformedness or failure to pay attention. Alcor is a nonprofit on whose board Kent has 2 seats. SA is a for-profit in which Kent is a major and controlling stockholder. His lackeys claim of course that SA has not turned a profit, and that is probably true, but it is clearly the goal of anyone who puts money into a for-profit business, for it to make a profit eventually, over time. Otherwise it is fraudulent for it to write losses off on the federal income tax. Besides, if Kent and Faloon never intended it to make a profit, why didn't they start it up straight, as a non-profit?

"I think you should name some names if you want to be taken seriously. Who have you called asking for info about Mr. Kent? What did they say or refuse to say to you?"

I have no obligation to address your concerns about me personally, Sally. Nor any reason to. It is not my credibility which is at stake here - it is certain major organizations and movers (or lack thereof) in cryonics. I'm just a potential customer asking questions. I don't need qualifications to do that. I'll keep repeating that until you get it, Sally, since you don't pay attention very often.

As to what I was talking about though - it has been a really creepy thing over the years - that whenever I mention "Saul Kent" in a post, almost invariably everything goes hush-hush. Is it a cultish "don't mess with the great icon" mentality? I'm sure a lot of people are afraid that if he sees the light, he might structure his charitable giving to cryonics, quite a bit differently. But I don't know what it is. All I'd like is for him to answer some questions I've asked, personally, not through murky shills and conduits. Improving his choices on where his money goes, would also be beneficial, in my opinion. If not so in your opinion, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, unless you want to be disagreeable about that.

FD

Well FD you have some interesting answers and I apologize for missing that you did in fact visit an organization. I still think my points stand though. "If cryonics companies want to be trusted and respected, they need to communicate the basis for any trust and respect." Yes okay, but I am sure a smart fellow like you can recognize that you are not going to influence them to do what you want by yelling at them. It hasn't worked, has it? Maybe you should try something else that makes you look better too. You could start by joining an organiztion, going to meetings, that kind of thing. Maybe even make yourself useful. If you are useful, people will take you more seriously. So long as you just stand outside yelling insults, what do you expect?

"If the only answer they can give to uncomfortable questions is to send people to Cold Filter to try to squelch the discussion, I'm afraid that answer just won't do, Sally."

You think I am a PR person acting on behalf of cryonics? This is really silly.

"Saul Kent plus Brian Wowk = 2 seats for Kent on Alcor's board, or are you really too gullible and naive to discern that?"

Isn't this very insulting to Mr. Wowk? This is the kind of thing where I think you undermine your own case. Suggesting one person says whatever another person wants him to say, as if these people are like political animals who don't want to lose their pensions. Do you really think this is how things work?

"SA is a for-profit in which Kent is a major and controlling stockholder. His lackeys claim of course that SA has not turned a profit, and that is probably true,"

If you agree, then why do you need to insult people by calling them "lackeys"? I really think you should try to separate the facts from the name calling.

"but it is clearly the goal of anyone who puts money into a for-profit business, for it to make a profit eventually, over time."

Okay but the SA web site says the organization will offer service to any other organization. Or is this part of the dark and devious plot too, the purpose being, what? If you agree Kent has lost millions on cryonics, what are his plots FOR, please? If he is already rich from another business, why would he be trying to get rich in cryonics? Please explain to me so that you don't have to insult me for being inattentive again.

"It is not my credibility which is at stake here"

Well if you want people to take you seriously as a critic (and you seem so very annoyed that they don;t) you DO need to address your credibility. Do you think anyone in the world has credibility from your point of view? If so maybe you should model yourself on them.

"whenever I mention "Saul Kent" in a post, almost invariably everything goes hush-hush."

You mean people don't bother to answer you! You know, it could be just as much your own fault as theirs. Really.

You said "I am sure a smart fellow like you can recognize that you are not going to influence them to do what you want by yelling at them. It hasn't worked, has it?"

As I said in the last post, asking nicely hasn't usually worked either. But tell ya what I'll do. I'll repost my request for Saul Kent on behalf of SA, and any Alcor director/manager on behalf of Alcor, to come here and explain in detail to us why their respective organizations do not currently use liquid ventilation in their standby/stabilization protocol, and I will do it nice and politely. Then we will see what happens. I bet nothing. Wanna bet, since you think they will answer if asked in a pleasant atmosphere? OK, if one of them does that, I'll send ya $10 for a Bell Taco lunch. If they both do, $20 for a Ruby's Tuesday one. Or whatever eating place or just pocket the dough. You'll have to email me your address for me to send an anonymous money order tho. Now, if neither of them answer, you get to donate $20 to CF's owner to help keep the ads off the forum - he takes Paypal I believe - or if he doesn't want any money we'll figure out something else for you to give to. Deal?

"You could start by joining an organiztion, going to meetings, that kind of thing. Maybe even make yourself useful. If you are useful, people will take you more seriously. So long as you just stand outside yelling insults, what do you expect?"

Alcor's Board did not take seriously a long-term cryonics volunteer and advocate, Dave Pizer, who recently tried to get them to meaningfully negotiate some rights for Alcor members. They didn't when he asked nicely, and they didn't when he yelled. Why do you think they would act any differently towards me? Nonetheless, how I approach things is my choice. Not yours, Sally.

"You think I am a PR person acting on behalf of cryonics? This is really silly."

I didn't say that, Sally, you just did. Gives me even more reason now for thinking it is probably true, though.

"Isn't this very insulting to Mr. Wowk?"

I don't see why it would be. He's a very well paid direct report of Kent's, running one of the Kent Group's labs. Are you so naive to think that he would act and speak independently as an Alcor board member, giving no regard at all to Kent's expressed opinions and positions? I'm not. Additionally, neither one of them belong on Alcor's board, it being a direct conflict of interest working for a conglomerate that offers standby services in competition with Alcor.

"If you agree, then why do you need to insult people by calling them "lackeys"? I really think you should try to separate the facts from the name calling."

I'm sorry - I meant to say "subservient generously-compensated employees entirely beholden to Mr. Kent".

"If you agree Kent has lost millions on cryonics, what are his plots FOR, please? If he is already rich from another business, why would he be trying to get rich in cryonics? Please explain to me so that you don't have to insult me for being inattentive again."

Perhaps after you have been around for a while and learned more, you will be able to explain Mr. Kent to me. I certainly can't figure him out. It is possible, though, he just wants more millions to sock away in his "Reanimation Foundation" in Liechtenstein.

"Well if you want people to take you seriously as a critic..."

Sally, I don't give a rat's hiney whether they do or not. It is enough for me to get people to think on their own, and question what is going on in cryonics. Any pleasure I might get is if any questions actually get answered without spin. Any practical results I might like to get are tangible improvements in cryonics and its organizations, which will eventually benefit you and me.

Good evening,

FD

Sally: Thanks so much Edward for solving the mystery of Maxim's qualifications. How was I supposed to know she put it on a blog? I certainly did not see her answer my question in her response here. Anyway now we know she was a perfusionist, many years ago, at one clinic in Louisiana. So much for her VAST experience.

This is a fascinating remark, since I don't think I have ever mentioned on my blog, or on this forum, that I worked at "one clinic in Louisiana," though that is true. What this doesn't tell Sally is that the clinic was a group of surgeons who serviced two large hospitals, where we were doing 600 open-heart surgeries a year, (plus a variety of other types of cases), when I resigned. Maybe Kelly has been letting every Tom, Dick, Harry, Steve and Charles have access to my personal SA employee file, again. Or, maybe Sally is one of the SA RUPs, or one of the "Critical Care Relatives," as they were affectionately called, at SA.


Sally: Of course this still doesn't mean she has any knowledge about cryonics. If she was really interested she would do some training, as I believe the cryonics organizations offer this. HAs she ever taken a training course? HAs she ever studied emergency medicine? If not, I think this makes her less knowledgable than a golf pro, doesn't it?

It would be helpful if Sally would read all the available information, before she spouts off. She seems to conveniently skip over all the past posts that have the answers to nearly all of her questions, as well as my technical posts on topics such as hypothermia and reperfusion injury. I was a consultant at SA for five months, and worked there, fulltime, for another five months, so of course I have attended cryonics training sessions. I helped to organize at least two, and was a co-leader of one. I have had extensive, ongoing communications, regarding scientific and clinical aspects of cryonics, with quite a few people in the field, including Aschwin de Wolf, Ben Best, and people at Alcor. I would say I understand more about cryonics than at least four of the six current SA staff members, who simply don't have the medical/scientific background required to understand many cryonics topics. I never saw any of those four studying cryonics, and they didn't take part in technical discussions, in which, as far as I could see, they had absolutely no interest. And, yes, I have emergency medical training and experience.


Sally: As for qualifications, I would have thought experience and training are more important.

If Sally was paying attention, she would have seen me write, MANY times, that there is absolutely nothing new about cryonics stabilization procedures, such as administering chest compressions, intubating patients, inserting IV lines, or administering medications. There are hundreds of thousands of people skilled in performing ALL these procedures, none of them on the staff of SA, with the possible exception of Ms. Baldwin. There is also nothing new about perfusion technology, and there are thousands of people educated and VASTLY experienced in performing perfusion, though none on the staff of SA.

"Cryonics experience" is largely a distractive illusion, no doubt intended on maintaining the status quo of certain "team leaders" and "advisors" who have little-to-no relevant medical experience. Does Sally think Charles Platt's six weeks of hanging out at Timothy Leary's bedside, writing an article for a magazine, (something I believe he counts as "cryonics experience"), makes him adept at inserting an IV into a patient with no blood pressure? Or in safely performing perfusion? Even highly skilled and experienced paramedics and nurses have difficulty gaining IV access on patients without pressure, so how can anyone believe that someone showing up for a handful of cryonics cases, (some of which didn't even go down), in more than a decade, qualifies them to perform these procedures? Anyone who believes this is either grossly uninformed about cryonics "standby, stabilization and transport," or delusional. I would say Sally is both.

The first SA training sessions I attended focused on such highly technical skills as packing ice around a patient, setting up the PIB and Thumper, doing a few chest compressions and eating pizza. Why? Most likely because the person leading the sessions didn't know much more than that, in regard to cryonics medical procedures. There were several paramedics at the training sessions, who seemed bored out of their minds, because they had set up the equipment at every previous training session, and it's something any 12-year-old could do with ten minutes of instruction. They knew exponentially more than any of the SA staff members, in regard to the medical procedures, and they made quite a few suggestions for alternative equipment that was lighter, easier to assemble and less expensive, than the homemade contraptions at SA, but their suggestions were ignored.


Sally: Cryonics patients need to have FD and Maxim are the ones obsessed with qualifications. But they apply different standards to themselves. That's my point. And then they act as if they are experts even though theyhave never done any work in cryonics cases.

Sally's point is invalid. A cryonics patient needs to have care providers capable of performing the medical procedures I have described above. It would be helpful to have a couple of unskilled people along, to assist with such tasks as packing ice around the patient, recording information, etc., but to think "cryonics experience" can take the place of medical training and experience, is simply ignorant. FD has not claimed to be able to perform the procedures necessary for standby, stabilization and transport of cryonics patients, but unlike Sally, at least he's intelligent and informed enough to realize these ARE the needed procedures and that medical professionals, such as myself, are capable of safely performing them, while SA's RUPs are not.


Sally: It's amusing that this seems to be such a small field, you and others have to assume I must be someone you already know. I'm not.

Then, how did Sally know I worked in Louisiana? I may have mentioned it and forgotten, but I searched this forum and my blog, and I don't see any mention of it, other than from Sally. Steve Harris once posted the name of a cardio-thoracic surgeon on this forum, without his permission, (which the moderator was gracious enough to edit out). If I do not post the names of the clinic and surgeons I worked with, it is out of consideration for them, as they probably would not want their names associated with cryonics, or mentioned on this forum. They are wonderful, caring devoted individuals and we had a great team, with a mortality rate below the national average. I never had a bit of trouble working with them, and was asked if there was anything they could do to make me stay, when I resigned. Everyone knows my credentials; SA and Alcor have my resume; and Alcor has my letters of recommendation. Should I ever want to work with Harris, or Sally, I'll be glad to give them the same. I get a kick out of socially inept people, such as Harris and Sally, demanding to know the names of people I worked with, as though they have some authority to check my credentials.

"Embarrassing" was an appropriate title for Sally's post. It's obvious she knows virtually nothing about cryonics procedures, or about the people she is discussing.

Melody is correct. She explains “Even highly skilled and experienced paramedics and nurses have difficulty gaining IV access on patients without pressure.” From what I hear, this is true in many patients with little or no blood pressure. The benefits of having a medically skilled individual are paramount.

In researching past cases from the Alcor newsletters I found an article written by Charles Platt about patient A-1234.

http://www.alcor.org/Library/html/alcornews011.html

Platt writes: “By 10 AM our team members were at the nursing home and I asked Larry Johnson to give instructions via the phone to Todd Huffman regarding medications. (Larry had considered flying to Los Angeles himself, but clearly he would have been unable to get there in time.) Larry described to Todd the technique for putting the patient in the Trendeleburg position, which causes the external jugular veins to become distended. This enabled Todd to place an IV line. It was then relatively easy to push the various medications that we use to mitigate ischemic injury.”

“Todd Huffman can take much of the credit for this by having managed to place the IV and administer heparin and streptokinase, in response to the valuable instructions from Larry Johnson.”

What would have happened if Alcor did not have Johnson on hand to verbally walk Huffman a difficult procedure? Could SA’s Golf Pro have been successful or would he have bogied on the ninth hole? Say what you will but you cannot substitute the skill of a professionally trained individual.

DR

DesertRat: What would have happened if Alcor did not have Johnson on hand to verbally walk Huffman a difficult procedure?

Don't worry, DesertRat, the SA team has Harris to talk them through everything. OH...WAIT...I forgot...Harris doesn't give advice, unless very specific questions are asked. I doubt the RUPs would know to ask him about using the Trendelenburg position, any more than they knew to ask him if they should give more heparin.

A very good point Mel.

This is what MM posted here in response to my original inquiry regarding her credentials:

"I see no more need to provide my credentials and references to you, than I did to Steve Harris, when he asked."

That sounds like a refusal to me, don't you agree? In fact she made a point of NOT stating the name of the place where she worked. But later she said she had answered my question. Evidently she had not. So why did she say she had?

JONS
(drunk)
Precisely. For ten years we sat in the Holy
Land and let snakes bite us, flies sting us,
wild animals eat us, heathens butcher us, the
wine poison us, the women give us lice, the
lice devour us, the fevers rot us, all for the
Glory of God. Our crusade was such madness that
only a real idealist could have thought it up.
But what you said about the plague was
horrible.

PAINTER
It's worse than that.

JONS
Ah, me. No matter which way you turn, you have
your rump behind you. That's the truth.

PAINTER
The rump behind you, the rump behind you
there's a profound truth.

JONS paints a small figure which is supposed to represent himself.

JONS
This is squire Jöns. He grins at Death, mocks
the Lord, laughs at himself and leers at the
girls. His world is a Jöns world, believable
only to himself, ridiculous to all including
himself, meaningless to Heaven and of no
interest to Hell.

I think you just described the world of cryonics all too well!

Cheers,

FD
(a rump from behind, pushing cryonics ahead)

If you google it, there's a great link with the whole text of the play.

It's been a couple of years since I went thru a spate of watching all those Bergman films, so I didn't recognize it right off

I liked Waiting for Godot better than any of them tho.

Happy landings,

FD