More interesting posts from the anticult forum. Heck, now they are even including poor Rudi Hoffman in the mix. What is the world coming too? Where is Alcor's new CEO during a time like this? Oh Jennifer Chapman, please report to your office. Quick, someone check the local salon, maybe she's getting her nails done.




http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,64749,page=5

"Its interesting if one runs Alcor through various criteria of cult-like unsafe groups and companies.
For instance, the Warning Signs at this link. [www.rickross.com]

Alcor does appear to meet most of the unsafe group warning sign criteria, by what has been shown so far.
It would be interesting to run Alcor through other unsafe group criteria, and see how they add up.
[www.factnet.org]

Alcor is very authoritarian, as can be seen in various reports. They work to influence people to hand over all rights to their dead body, life insurance and estate.
They use pressure and fear tactics to recruit and sign people up, and then keep them.
They talk a lot about seperating people from family members and spouses who don't approve. (their solution is to give Alcor all the rights to your corpse and money).

There are a number of arrogant charismatic leaders, who reject scientific and ethical criticism, and reject the scientific consensus against cryonics.
They are very secretive, and are a self-selected, self-perpetuating board.
They exercise massive control over employees and members, as they seem to own the rights to their dead bodies, and they can revoke "eternal life" from a true believer at their whim.
They are very active in recruiting new members, using complex tactics, and are extremely money oriented, as seen in the complex financial arrangements they create.
They use a barrage of pseudoscience to confuse people, when in reality there is zero scientific justification for what they are doing.

There is a financial salesman named Rudi Hoffman who does complex financial deals around cryonics and Alcor. There are hundreds of links of him and Alcor.
[www.rudihoffman.com]

There is also some info, that Alcor has paid the life insurance premiums for some of its employees, while also being the beneficiary of the same life insurance plan. Think about that. How many companies are the beneficiary for their employees life insurance plan? So if an employee dies, the company gets a huge life insurance pay-out. They also get their employees corpse.

Notice also a link here, where a person (Thomas Kirschner) had his Alcor contract CANCELLED without notice, even though Alcor was still the beneficiary.
"How I lost my membership at Alcor" [www.cryonet.org]

Notice how Alcor just cuts people off from "eternal life", and seems to use this as a threat, and uses fear and other emotional tactics on their own members?

Its obvious what happened here. They wanted to cut-off foreign insurance policies, and instead force those non-USA folks to PAY CASH UP FRONT.
(they are not concerned how they are going to move a dead corpse across the ocean, and the damage that will cause).
These folks are completely ruthless how they CANCEL this guys "eternal life" without any notice at all. (obviously, that is a SHOCK and SCARE tactic to get paid up front to get some cash-flow).

Does any reasonable person think these folks are going to keep the freezers on, when the person is dead, and all the money is collected and spent? A dead person has NO legal rights, and there is no external oversight. Once you are dead, and they have the money, its game over. No friend or family member can come in there are make sure you are even still in a freezer, you could be cremated a month after you are dead and the insurance checks have cleared.

One assumes it would be completely legal to send some bodies out for cremation, or dissolve the body on-site chemically, as its their dead body now, not yours, as you no longer exist. And no one would ever know if that was being done.

Possibly the only person who could do anything about this, would be the local coroner or Medical Examiner?
Its unbelievable that it seems anyone can hang human corpses and heads 4-deep in freezers, with no oversight?"

According to Anticult's profile:

http://forum.rickross.com/profile.php?12,3908

He registered about 34 months ago and has made nearly 1,400 posts on that forum, or about 40 a month on average.

Yet in the cryonics thread, which started on Jan. 22,, he's made about 23 posts by my count the last time I checked, with most of those in the past three days.

First of all, does this guy even have a life?

And secondly, what cryonicist molested him as a child to account for his fractally wrong crusade against cryonics?

Rick Ross, the guy who apparently founded the Cult Education Forum as an adjunct to his "institute," is a real crank and obsessive regarding what he considers "cults."

Which is kind of unfortunate. There are some genuinely harmful cults out there, but he has gone nuts in opposition to everything that looks like a "cult" to him. He also used to hire himself out as a cult "deprogrammer" (otherwise known as a "kidnapper"), an activity that our justice system takes a dim view of, considering our traditions of religious freedom and tolerance.

If his online name on his forum is "The Anticult," then that would explain a lot.

"frozen mummies" term was a pretty funny description!

Anticult writes:


"This thing constantly gets stranger and weirder. All it takes is a little critical thinking, and a bit of research. Basically what was being speculated about a cryonic cultic religion and cryonic church of Immortalism, has already happened years ago. It already exists.
For example,

There is a guy named David Pizer, who is listed a Former Alcor Vice President. David Pizer appears to also run the Church/Society of Venturism. He also appears to employ Mark Plus at some motel or resort. (Its a small small world afterall...)

There is plenty of information out there about this, one can imagine how much is not openly available.

There is an ABC article below.
First off, its a glorified puff-piece, which serves as an advertisement for Alcor, those puff-articles are easy to get with a good PR agency.
But notice how the mainstream media asks no questions at all.

They claim to be worth 10 million, but are they really? Making yourself sound wealthy, is just another way of saying you're not in it for the money. But with so many millions, then why can't they hire a web-designer, for starters? (it really is absurd).

Also, how could a person Will money to themselves in a "personal revival trust" when they are legally dead? That is beyond ridiculous. That sounds like a complete scamola with word trickery.
Money can be put into a trust or company, that can be operated by other people who are alive. But you are dead, and that's that. Dead is legally dead, don't get duped. There is no such thing as cryonic suspension, it doesn't exist. You are legally dead dead dead.

Obviously, that sounds like just ANOTHER sales-pitch to get people to pour all their assets into trusts, that these kindly folks and their associates will happily "manage" for them while they are allegedly frozen solid and dead dead dead!!
Again, the problem is that you are legally dead, and you literally no longer exist. Period. And so whoever controls those assets, owns those assets, of course.

this is a good punch line for a comedy act, or a Southpark episode.
Hey, come and let us freeze your dead corpse which you donate to science through us, and turn all your assets/insurance over to some type of fancy trust, (which we'll "manage" for you), and we promise to "do our best" to build those assets, and then turn them back over to you when you are revived in 200 years.
(also, just to be safe, having the freezers go "offline" by mistake and thus causing the corpses to have to be cremated is rather convenient, just in case).

These guys should have been running Enron. Your money is going to be liquidated faster than your corpse, and it would all be totally legal.
Its almost hard to believe this stuff is really happening out there. But believe it.
Its a mad mad world."

At least it's plausible to think that "The Anticult" is Rick Ross's online alias. Otherwise it's somebody else with just as screwed up a personality who probably masturbates to his bondage fantasies of kidnapping and "deprogramming" teen girls from the cults they've joined. (I don't think he'd find good fantasy material among the women who've joined the Alcor "cult.")

I think Tanya Jones is hot!

A friend of mine claims he overheard one of the service workers at an Alcor event say, "These people are too ugly to freeze for the future!"

Well, yes, we are a pretty frumpy bunch. No straight guy joins the Alcor "cult" for the hot chicks. Not even The Anticult has claimed that we use sex to "recruit" yet, though if he did, that would have about as much basis in reality as rest of his posts about Alcor.

"Too ugly to freeze" that's funny. That's why I went for CI, I am too good looking for Alcor.

But chicks with colostomies just don't do it for me.

I've been rolling my eyes at some of your comments and picture-posting, regarding the women in cryonics, but the posting of this personal information about Ms. Vyff and Kahn's link really crossed the line of playfulness/good-natured male-bonding remarks, in my opinion.

(Yes, I realize it was "in the public domain," by virtue of having been published in a book, but was it really necessary, here?)

. . . some of the gynecological stuff about themselves some cryonicist women have revealed to me (in more than one sense), even when I didn't care to know about it. Because that information isn't in the public domain, as far as I know, I'll keep it to myself.

with pics? and then let everyone vote?

I have a weakness for ginger women of Irish ancestry, like Bonnie Magee:

No one is sure of my gender anyway, and that "Phil" fellow (RIP) thought I was a girl, so who knows!

No nude photos, sorry, unless you would like me to upload ones of the undersides of possums or jellyfish.

Cheerios,

FD

This was in poor taste. Shannon is a very active and well-liked advocate of cryonics. I'd hate for this to be her first introduction to our little forum. While I'm at it, let me say that I'm definitely not enjoying the under current of female ofjectification I've seen lately. It doesn't exactly make for a warm welcome to any women who may be lurking on our board.

Aside from the possibility of unperson102, I don't believe the posters in this thread are cryonicists. I know of cryonics officials who do not read this blog because it is not looked upon as being genuine. Some view Cold Filter as an anti-cryonics blog, or even fake because of the use of pseudonyms, which is unfortunate in my view. I really do like this format and believe it is superior to other formats used in cryonics, but what goes on here is largely unproductive rants. I believe there is ample room for freedom of speech and constructive criticism of cryonics, but I see little if anything that is constructive. At times, the un-moderated lathering that goes on here reminds me of the Abbott and Costello skit, "Who's on first?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sShMA85pv8M

When I hear of terms such as cult in association with cryonics it makes me laugh. I have this image of the Wright Brothers on bent knee, holding up bicycle parts and making burnt sacrifices to their god, Hermes.

If cryonics were a religion, life would be a little easier because I could use faith to help carry me forward. As a cryonicist who is also agnostic, I have absolutely no idea what my odds are of survival. If I get prompt medical care in my time of need, I believe I have a chance, but still don't know what my odds are of survival. Short of some form of spiritual afterlife, which I cannot prove or disprove, I choose not to take the typical path of others and become food for other life forms. If the rest of the Eloi out there wish to confine their world view in simple terms, I have no qualms with it, but I simply choose a different path in life.

If there is any area which I have some degree of faith or hope, it is in the progression or evolution of humanity.

I can't blame people after looking at stuff from idiots like Ross, for needing a moment of levity. The "cryonics officials" who don't like the freedom of expression on CF are one of the biggest problems in cryonics. Unfortunately, they seem to pervade Alcor's board. Type A as in Anal, for sure. Anyone who thinks the entire CF forum is "fake" has no idea of the magnitude of posts here (I do, I archive it). It would take dozens of people to "fake" a forum of this size. As to "unproductive rants" and "lathering", can't we just have a sense of humor? Not every thread has to be totally serious, and sometimes a serious one will start out that way and then people just have to let go and vent.

I agree with most of your thoughts on cults and religion. Good serious stuff.

Cheers,

FD

When I hear of terms such as cult in association with cryonics it makes me laugh. I have this image of the Wright Brothers on bent knee, holding up bicycle parts and making burnt sacrifices to their god, Hermes.

The cult part bothers me less than Ross's efforts to destroy the reputations of certain cryonicists, especially ones in leadership positions who might want to find other work or business opportunities some day. One of my correspondents pointed out that many employers these days use the internets to check up on the backgrounds of job applicants. So suppose a former employee of a cryonics organization applies for a job, and the interviewer behind the scenes googles the guy's or lady's name and finds an apparently legitimate website accusing him or her of stealing money in the cryonics "scam"?

Can't believe you actually said this:
"The cult part bothers me less than Ross's efforts to destroy the reputations of certain cryonicists..."

I guess then that we just learned where you are coming from. You are more worried about your own butt than you are about cryonics or the org you got booted out of, hm?

FD

Some of the most recent posts from Rick Ross.



http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,64749,page=7

"Mark Plus (who appears to have posted in this thread previously) is listed as the manager of the Creekside. They want other cryonicists to work on the Ventureville compound as waiters, cooks, and in their horse breeding business. He appears to be offering room and board, and minimal-pay.
One assumes posting cryonics advertising on countless blogs is part of the job description.

David Pizer, with his background in car upholstery sales, then states that aging is simply an engineering problem. This is a combination of sheer ignorance, and extreme arrogance.
Aging is actual related to the entropy of the universe, and is one of the most complex areas of biology that is not understood.

But David Pizer, a former car upholstery salesman, current motel owner and horse breeder, and creator of the Venturist cryonics religion, he knows the answers to aging. Imagine that."


"Mike Perry (R. Michael Perry) has worked for Alcor since 1989. So he has been with Alcor for 20 years.

Mike Perry is:
"a Director and an ordained minister of the Society for Venturism and performs wedding ceremonies and memorial services for this IRS-recognized, scientific and religious organization. He is also a cofounder and past president of the Society for Universal Immortalism"

Mike Perry and David Pizer are closely connected.
It appears Mike Perry and David Pizer were both involved with the Dora Kent homicide incident, and were apparently both arrested by the police.

David Pizer also convinced the Alcor board to move to Arizona, due to some friendly political connections with the mayor of Scottsdale.
David Pizer even found the first building for Alcor.

This has not even begin to scratch the surface."