http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2009/jun/22/end-science-unified-theory-mavericks
"Are we witnessing the end of science?.....Progress in science needs researchers who are not afraid or who are encouraged and rewarded to ask awkward and difficult questions of theory and of new data. It is easier to question mainstream views if you are independently wealthy, as many scientists in previous ages tended to be. But I wonder how many of us would do so if we were employed by the state and our career progression depended on the validation of our peers?"
Two scientists "employed by the state" who "question mainstream views":
In the era of Postscientism questioning mainstream views is useless because nobody cares about questioning mainstream views. In other words, the death of science is IRREVERSIBLE:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090316/deresiewicz?rel=hp_picks
"The most striking thing about the way we talk about science these days is just how little we talk about it at all. No large fundamental question focuses our attention on the adventure of discovery; no grand public project stirs our reflection on the perils of technological control. Nothing for decades has approached the imaginative impact of relativity or the double helix, the moon landing or the bomb."
http://www.nyas.org/publications/UpdateUnbound.asp?UpdateID=41
Lee Smolin: "Then, about 30 years ago, something changed. The last time there was a definitive advance in our knowledge of fundamental physics was the construction ofthe theory we call the standard model of particle physics in 1973. The last time a fundamental theory was proposed that has since gotten any support from experiment was a theory about the very early universe called inflation, which was proposed in 1981....A growing number of theoretical physicists, myself among them, see the present situation as a crisis that requires us to reexamine the assumptions behind our so-far unsuccessful theories. I should emphasize that this crisis involves only fundamental physics that part of physics concerned with discovering the laws of nature."
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/ingdahl2.html
"But there has been a marked global decrease of students willing to study physics, and funding has decreased accordingly. Not only that, the best students are not heading for studies in physics, finding other fields more appealing, and science teachers to schools are getting scarcer in supply. In fact, warning voices are being heard about the spread of a "scientific illiteracy" where many living in technologically advanced societies lack the knowledge and the ability for critical thinking in order to function in their daily environment."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2005/nov/22/schools.g2
"We are nearing the end of the "World Year of Physics", otherwise known as Einstein Year, as it is the centenary of his annus mirabilis in which he made three incredible breakthroughs, including special relativity. In fact, it was 100 years ago yesterday that he published the most famous equation in the history of physics: E=mc2. But instead of celebrating, physicists are in mourning after a report showed a dramatic decline in the number of pupils studying physics at school. The number taking A-level physics has dropped by 38% over the past 15 years, a catastrophic meltdown that is set to continue over the next few years. The report warns that a shortage of physics teachers and a lack of interest from pupils could mean the end of physics in state schools. Thereafter, physics would be restricted to only those students who could afford to go to posh schools. Britain was the home of Isaac Newton, Michael Faraday and Paul Dirac, and Brits made world-class contributions to understanding gravity, quantum physics and electromagnetism - and yet the British physicist is now facing extinction. But so what? Physicists are not as cuddly as pandas, so who cares if we disappear?"
http://www.i-sem.net/press/jmll_isem_palermo.pdf
"La science souffre dune forte perte de crédit, au sens propre comme au sens figuré : son soutien politique et économique, comme sa réputation intellectuelle et culturelle connaissent une crise grave."
http://dogma.free.fr/txt/EK-ScienceQuiestion.htm
"Par ailleurs, on remarque quaujourdhui, les thèses « relativistes », par exemple celle de Paul Féyerabend, ont un impact très fort, notamment dans les milieux étudiants. Même si leur diffusion saccompagne de contresens et de malentendus, elles servent de socle à des critiques de plus en plus vives adressées aux professionnels de la recherche : Votre science dit-elle réellement le vrai ? Comment osez-vous prétendre quelle se réfère à la rationalité alors que les jugements esthétiques, les préjugés métaphysiques et autres désirs subjectifs imprégnent sinon sa démarche tout entière, du moins certaines de ses phases ? Votre légitimité incontestée est-elle fondée sur autre chose que des effets de pouvoir ?"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2008/nov/27/science-easier-exams
"Pupils of today struggle with science questions of the 60s. Evidence shows standards are slipping as comparison is made of exam papers through the decades. There has been a "catastrophic slippage" in standards of science taught in schools, leaving children with a superficial understanding of chemistry, biology and physics, according to the Royal Society of Chemistry."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/may/22/highereducation.education
Harry Kroto: "The wrecking of British science....The scientific method is based on what I prefer to call the inquiring mindset. It includes all areas of human thoughtful activity that categorically eschew "belief", the enemy of rationality. This mindset is a nebulous mixture of doubt, questioning, observation, experiment and, above all, curiosity, which small children possess in spades. I would argue that it is the most important, intrinsically human quality we possess, and it is responsible for the creation of the modern, enlightened portion of the world that some of us are fortunate to inhabit. Curiously, for the majority of our youth, the educational system magically causes this capacity to disappear by adolescence.....Do I think there is any hope for UK? I am really not sure."
Looks like PV is trying to create a new sect: the Seventh-day Scientist Sect.
Painting current science in black and predicting a collapse of scientific thought is just as irrational as telling people about the end of the times to come.
The reality is not black, not white, even not grey.
Actually, the current reality in science is colorfull.
The fact that science is less appealing than before to young students is just one aspect of the story. This educational aspect is less a threath than a challenge. It is not directly related to science, but it is related to the easy-all culture that prevails today.
Easy-money has shown its idiocy already several times.
PV is here the propagandist for easy-science.
Most posters here are common followers of this easy-science phylosophy.
The principles of the phylosophy are easy to understand, by design.
When a scientific concept needs more than "common-sense", needs some elaboration, "easy-science" simply rejects. Typical sample: Einstein did elementary math mistakes.
Actually, the current reality in science is colorfull.
Science, today, as all the colors of lifes, our lifes.
Not so far ago, science was unknown to most mankind, science was reserved to a small elite, and science had no impact on the lifes of common people.
Today, our lifes are colored by science in nearly every places and every moments.
No needs to tell more about this obvious fact.
We can really hope that we have entered since about 1.5 century in a scientific civilization.
I hope at least that we did not enter in the petroleum civilization, as this should be short-lived.
Anonymous
Additional note
June 27 2009, 4:11 PM
A real "scientifc civilization" should be able to take the needed measures against climate change.
Let's see if the balance will favor a rational use of our planet,
or if the followers of PV will have their wish realized: the end of science.
Pentcho: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2009/jun/22/end-science-unified-theory-mavericks "Are we witnessing the end of science?.....Progress in science needs researchers who are not afraid or who are encouraged and rewarded to ask awkward and difficult questions of theory and of new data. It is easier to question mainstream views if you are independently wealthy, as many scientists in previous ages tended to be. But I wonder how many of us would do so if we were employed by the state and our career progression depended on the validation of our peers?" Two scientists "employed by the state" who "question mainstream views": http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/archive/00000313/ Jos Uffink: Bluff your Way in the Second Law of Thermodynamics http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a909857880 Peter Hayes: The Ideology of Relativity: The Case of the Clock Paradox In the era of Postscientism questioning mainstream views is useless because nobody cares about questioning mainstream views. In other words, the death of science is IRREVERSIBLE.
AAF: I would say that, according to the strict rules of psychology, questioning mainstream views, in this particular case, is very similar to questioning taboos and dogmas in general. At first, the people, under questioning, become very startled and agitated and extremely irritated and outraged. As the time goes on and the questioning continues, those people lose their anger and wild emotions little by little till they completely run out of excitation and go numb and unresponsive. From this point on, those questioned people start to recover and to become, in the end, moderate and open-minded and ready to accept the facts as they are without any distortion or filtering of any kind. In other words, mainstream unresponsiveness to challenges is a good sign! And for us it means 'victory'....
Anonymous
Re: THE END OF SCIENCE
June 28 2009, 6:31 AM
AAF: I would say that, according to the strict rules of psychology, questioning mainstream views, in this particular case, is very similar to questioning taboos and dogmas in general. At first, the people, under questioning, become very startled and agitated and extremely irritated and outraged. As the time goes on and the questioning continues, those people lose their anger and wild emotions little by little till they completely run out of excitation and go numb and unresponsive. From this point on, those questioned people start to recover and to become, in the end, moderate and open-minded and ready to accept the facts as they are without any distortion or filtering of any kind. In other words, mainstream unresponsiveness to challenges is a good sign! And for us it means 'victory'....
An example please?
Are you talking about forum science or real science?
As far as "self-proclaimed dissidents" are concerned, instead of complaining about unsolved problem, they can better solve these problems in a convincing way.
Read the Baez crank index again.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2009/jun/22/end-science-unified-theory-mavericks
"Are we witnessing the end of science?.....Progress in science needs researchers who are not afraid or who are encouraged and rewarded to ask awkward and difficult questions of theory and of new data. It is easier to question mainstream views if you are independently wealthy, as many scientists in previous ages tended to be. But I wonder how many of us would do so if we were employed by the state and our career progression depended on the validation of our peers?"
Two scientists "employed by the state" who "question mainstream views":
In the era of Postscientism questioning mainstream views is useless because nobody cares about questioning mainstream views. In other words, the death of science is IRREVERSIBLE:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090316/deresiewicz?rel=hp_picks
"The most striking thing about the way we talk about science these days is just how little we talk about it at all. No large fundamental question focuses our attention on the adventure of discovery; no grand public project stirs our reflection on the perils of technological control. Nothing for decades has approached the imaginative impact of relativity or the double helix, the moon landing or the bomb."
http://www.nyas.org/publications/UpdateUnbound.asp?UpdateID=41
Lee Smolin: "Then, about 30 years ago, something changed. The last time there was a definitive advance in our knowledge of fundamental physics was the construction ofthe theory we call the standard model of particle physics in 1973. The last time a fundamental theory was proposed that has since gotten any support from experiment was a theory about the very early universe called inflation, which was proposed in 1981....A growing number of theoretical physicists, myself among them, see the present situation as a crisis that requires us to reexamine the assumptions behind our so-far unsuccessful theories. I should emphasize that this crisis involves only fundamental physics that part of physics concerned with discovering the laws of nature."
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/ingdahl2.html
"But there has been a marked global decrease of students willing to study physics, and funding has decreased accordingly. Not only that, the best students are not heading for studies in physics, finding other fields more appealing, and science teachers to schools are getting scarcer in supply. In fact, warning voices are being heard about the spread of a "scientific illiteracy" where many living in technologically advanced societies lack the knowledge and the ability for critical thinking in order to function in their daily environment."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2005/nov/22/schools.g2
"We are nearing the end of the "World Year of Physics", otherwise known as Einstein Year, as it is the centenary of his annus mirabilis in which he made three incredible breakthroughs, including special relativity. In fact, it was 100 years ago yesterday that he published the most famous equation in the history of physics: E=mc2. But instead of celebrating, physicists are in mourning after a report showed a dramatic decline in the number of pupils studying physics at school. The number taking A-level physics has dropped by 38% over the past 15 years, a catastrophic meltdown that is set to continue over the next few years. The report warns that a shortage of physics teachers and a lack of interest from pupils could mean the end of physics in state schools. Thereafter, physics would be restricted to only those students who could afford to go to posh schools. Britain was the home of Isaac Newton, Michael Faraday and Paul Dirac, and Brits made world-class contributions to understanding gravity, quantum physics and electromagnetism - and yet the British physicist is now facing extinction. But so what? Physicists are not as cuddly as pandas, so who cares if we disappear?"
http://www.i-sem.net/press/jmll_isem_palermo.pdf
"La science souffre dune forte perte de crédit, au sens propre comme au sens figuré : son soutien politique et économique, comme sa réputation intellectuelle et culturelle connaissent une crise grave."
http://dogma.free.fr/txt/EK-ScienceQuiestion.htm
"Par ailleurs, on remarque quaujourdhui, les thèses « relativistes », par exemple celle de Paul Féyerabend, ont un impact très fort, notamment dans les milieux étudiants. Même si leur diffusion saccompagne de contresens et de malentendus, elles servent de socle à des critiques de plus en plus vives adressées aux professionnels de la recherche : Votre science dit-elle réellement le vrai ? Comment osez-vous prétendre quelle se réfère à la rationalité alors que les jugements esthétiques, les préjugés métaphysiques et autres désirs subjectifs imprégnent sinon sa démarche tout entière, du moins certaines de ses phases ? Votre légitimité incontestée est-elle fondée sur autre chose que des effets de pouvoir ?"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2008/nov/27/science-easier-exams
"Pupils of today struggle with science questions of the 60s. Evidence shows standards are slipping as comparison is made of exam papers through the decades. There has been a "catastrophic slippage" in standards of science taught in schools, leaving children with a superficial understanding of chemistry, biology and physics, according to the Royal Society of Chemistry."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/may/22/highereducation.education
Harry Kroto: "The wrecking of British science....The scientific method is based on what I prefer to call the inquiring mindset. It includes all areas of human thoughtful activity that categorically eschew "belief", the enemy of rationality. This mindset is a nebulous mixture of doubt, questioning, observation, experiment and, above all, curiosity, which small children possess in spades. I would argue that it is the most important, intrinsically human quality we possess, and it is responsible for the creation of the modern, enlightened portion of the world that some of us are fortunate to inhabit. Curiously, for the majority of our youth, the educational system magically causes this capacity to disappear by adolescence.....Do I think there is any hope for UK? I am really not sure."
Pentcho Valev
pvalev@yahoo.com
Anonymous
Re: THE END OF SCIENCE
July 17 2009, 8:01 AM
Timothy 1:4a View profile
(1 user) More options Jun 27, 11:53 am
Newsgroups: alt.philosophy, sci.logic, sci.astro, sci.math
From: "Timothy 1:4a"
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 08:53:32 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sat, Jun 27 2009 11:53 am
Subject: Re: THE END OF SCIENCE
Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author
Mark Twain said, "The reports of my death have been greatly
exaggerated."
Perhaps there is good cause for some concern in the many articles
cited above, but science overall is going gangbusters.
- The Large Hadron Collider came online in September 2008 to study
subatomic particles.
- The Kepler telescope mission was launched in March 2009 to study
planets around distant stars, and the Hubble telescope is still
bringing in treasures every day.
- New tools let us study ocean depths in ever more detail.
- Brain imaging is teaching us about the physical basis of the mind.
We recently photographed memories forming in the brain, verifying the
hypothesis that memories are proteins newly formed at synapses.
- Even more to the point, DNA studies continue to expand a dozen
sciences. DNA studies are reorganizing and/or confirming our taxonomy.
The ability to understand and manipulate genetic material is so
exciting that it's scary. Comparison of DNA in modern populations
around the world and comparison with ancient DNA from Stone Age humans
are rewriting the maps of prehistoric human migrations.
So what if we haven't had a major new physics theory in 30 years?
Perhaps that's partly because we've got most things right by now. We
are collecting facts faster than ever, integrating them better than
ever, applying them better than ever.
Now if we could only get some of that knowledge applied in our social
and political process
On Jun 27, 10:21 am, Pentcho Valev wrote:
>http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2009/jun/22/end-science-unifie...
> "Are we witnessing the end of science?.....Progress in science needs
> researchers who are not afraid or who are encouraged and rewarded
> to ask awkward and difficult questions of theory and of new data. It
> is easier to question mainstream views if you are independently
> wealthy, as many scientists in previous ages tended to be. But I
> wonder how many of us would do so if we were employed by the state and
> our career progression depended on the validation of our peers?"
Adolf Erdmann
Einstein's famous train experiment
July 24 2009, 12:57 PM
I have to agree with Pentcho on some of his points about the state in which modern science is in.
To illustrate my reason, can someone explain to me, how a forked lightning can strike a moving train in front and in the back while striking two places on the embankment. Lets say the train is one mile long. When standing still, it is as long as a mile of track. But when moving it shrinks and is shorter than the one mile of track. Therefore, there are at least three locations which the forked lighting must hit, but that never seems to be a issue.
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